Rogue vs Demon Hunter. Decision time!

[Yattz]

I think a lot of people will have a DH alt or whatever. But the melee dodging style doesnt really suit many people(that i raid with at least). We have 1,5 tank opting in for DH and 1 dps opting in for it in Legion(the dps guy hasnt tried DH in beta yet)

By mele dodging style are you referring to the momentum/movement build? If so >> There are 2 other builds to use for the class i believe and while momentum is the strongest NOW, im sure that will change when they complete their tuning

[Deleted]

By mele dodging style are you referring to the momentum/movement build? If so >> There are 2 other builds to use for the class i believe and while momentum is the strongest NOW, im sure that will change when they complete their tuning

Oh no just playing melee dps in general. A lot of people dont like it because its so different from ranged dps.

We often get melee applications that end up playing a ranged class because they dont perform on their choosen melee char.

Edit:

And yes i agree the stupid momentum build will not be strongest for ST come release

[Deleted]

30 sec cd. 10 sec duration.
Attacking or taking damage cancels the sight.

And no, it won't be disabled in pvp, that would be dumb. So get ready to be hit by glaive toss out of nowhere and kicked out of stealth. You can never get the opener on a dh who suspects you're around, all he has to do is spectral sight-glaive toss and force you to run and restealth or vanish, and try to get another opener before the 30 sec are up.

Why Bloodlust is disabled in Arena ? "That would be stupid" ;]

[Squeamie]

Thandorr, do yourself a favor and choose rogue. Don't join the plague of demon hunters that will wash over Azeroth in a sea when Legion comes out. Do you remember how many fucking DKs there were in Wrath? Remember how many stupid monks there were in MoP? Don't contribute to the disease. As a rogue you can play whatever race you want, (besides Tauren), you don't have to be a fruity elf. Yes, of course even if people think rogue sucks ATM, they'll rise again, since Blizzard tries their hardest to balance the classes out. Even better, if you're queued for anything as rogue, you'll probably get in a lot faster than as a DH, since there will be an ocean of them playing. Also, I'm sure this is a heated topic of debate, but I HEARD rogues can absolutely demolish demon hunters in PVP. Whether you like PVP or not, that anther perfect reason to choose rogue instead, lol! People said they're extremely squishy and don't have very good survival tactics. Just think of how many DHs you could prey on when the expansion drops. It's going to be gank city! Specialize in killing them and feel like you're single handedly winning BGs. Kill them in the open world and become the hero quelling the overpopulation problem.

[Riistov]

what utility does rogue bring that is more impactful than DH? we lost smoke bomb, shroud, and shiv. havoc DH has darkness which basically a shroud + bomb, vengeful retreat is a mini shiv, and u can stun just like a rogue can kidney. this is all available to u as havoc.

Others lost a lot of utility too, it doesn't mean Rogue won't be useful.

[Drosul]

30 sec cd. 10 sec duration.
Attacking or taking damage cancels the sight.

And no, it won't be disabled in pvp, that would be dumb. So get ready to be hit by glaive toss out of nowhere and kicked out of stealth. You can never get the opener on a dh who suspects you're around, all he has to do is spectral sight-glaive toss and force you to run and restealth or vanish, and try to get another opener before the 30 sec are up.

Luckily you don't at all need the opener as a Rogue, because your actual damage toolkit relentlessly hardcounters the DH toolkit.


CC, evasion, or Vanish his meta form and he can't heal

Cloak his Eyebeam

Trinket his only stun

If he's not specced into glaive toss snare, you can simply kite him with shuriken, since he can't break snares

Shadowstep--->Kidney and you've 100% countered his biggest defensive in blur

Kite him out of the area of effect of Darkness, his only other defensive.... he has to follow you because his only ranged ability (glaive toss) does piss all dps and has a cooldown.


And, with current damage numbers, you can 100-0 him during any stun 4seconds or larger, even if he has all of his defensives popped.....

People need to stop saying DH's counter rogues, because they can hit you out of the opener, when the damn entirety of the rest of the toolkit has Rogues harcountering DHs...... Being able to deny the opener and then running for your life to hide behind teamates may literally be the only chance a DH actually has in that matchup

[primalmatter]

Balancing patch isn't out yet...

So far the rogue has a better tool kit then demon hunters but we need to see damage outputs to be sure.

[Drosul]

Balancing patch isn't out yet...

So far the rogue has a better tool kit then demon hunters but we need to see damage outputs to be sure.

Honestly the damage output in this scenario really doesn't matter..... So long as both classes can deal a viable amount of damage, the toolkit just massively favors the Rogue.

That being said, Havoc DHs are quite likely to undergo significant mechanical changes yet, because their entire Spec's survivability is entirely talent based.... which is a terrible enough design in itself.... but also because outside of RNG orb generation in the first tier of talents, every other survivability talent is merely an unholy synergy of terrible gameplay that buffs Metamorphasis into a healing cooldown (in addition to it being the primary DPS cooldown).... A combination that was already relentlessly nerfed because it created a horribly binary gameplay system where you where a walking immortal in Meta, going ham on everyone, then promptly exploded in a global the second you where caught outside Meta..... Not to metion that even in solo PvE, their self healing/survivability toolkit is completely failing versus anything that isn't a low HP trash mob (not to mention forcing stupid homogenized talent choices).

TL: DR don't be scared of Havoc until they start getting the significant revamps they need..... Vengeance, on the other hand, is a spec that could easily become stupid if everyone else's damage gets toned down, because they're self healing is already pretty close to staying up vs the insane damage levels on beta.

And if anything, rogues, be more worried about ShadowDance not swapping to your stealth bar, and the total aids that Symbols of Death is mechanically.

[Thandorr]

Sorry for OT, but why do you shy away from Feral for Legion?

His guild is forcing him, lol

My guild isn't forcing me to, I've played feral for 4 years, but we have two ferals, and honestly, we shouldn't even have one. Lol. They are, in my opinion, the worst melee to bring to fights in the current encounter design meta. But that's a different post for a different thread.

I appreciate the feedback. A lot to think about. I think I'm still leaning toward DH, but I have a couple weeks before I have to make a final decision.

[delus]

And if anything, rogues, be more worried about ShadowDance not swapping to your stealth bar, and the total aids that Symbols of Death is mechanically.

Or just play one of the other two specs.

[classic username]

what makes rogue dead in legion? Sub isn't as complete/complex as it is now, but the design isn't awful. It's still fairly fun to play. Assassination is really simplistic, but is ok. I don't like outlaw, but that is just a preference.

Ultimately, it will boil down to DPS/Utility. Rogue offers a lot of utility, DH will offer a lot of damage. It's not an easy choice imo.

well that says it all.. sub isnt even complex in WoD and from the looks it gets even easier in Legion its a boring shit spec that relies on Trinket Procs. They destroy Combat for a silly "Pirate themed Outlaw" or whatever the hell this is. dont know about Mutilate

so Rogue is dead.

[delus]

well that says it all.. sub isnt even complex in WoD and from the looks it gets even easier in Legion its a boring shit spec that relies on Trinket Procs. They destroy Combat for a silly "Pirate themed Outlaw" or whatever the hell this is. dont know about Mutilate

so Rogue is dead.

Outlaw is pretty awesome. I actually like it better tan combat on live. Assassination is pretty much the same thing as on live with an additional bleed and no dispatch. Rogues are far from dead.

[Deleted]

Thandorr, do yourself a favor and choose rogue. Don't join the plague of demon hunters that will wash over Azeroth in a sea when Legion comes out. Do you remember how many fucking DKs there were in Wrath? Remember how many stupid monks there were in MoP? Don't contribute to the disease. As a rogue you can play whatever race you want, (besides Tauren), you don't have to be a fruity elf. Yes, of course even if people think rogue sucks ATM, they'll rise again, since Blizzard tries their hardest to balance the classes out. Even better, if you're queued for anything as rogue, you'll probably get in a lot faster than as a DH, since there will be an ocean of them playing. Also, I'm sure this is a heated topic of debate, but I HEARD rogues can absolutely demolish demon hunters in PVP. Whether you like PVP or not, that anther perfect reason to choose rogue instead, lol! People said they're extremely squishy and don't have very good survival tactics. Just think of how many DHs you could prey on when the expansion drops. It's going to be gank city! Specialize in killing them and feel like you're single handedly winning BGs. Kill them in the open world and become the hero quelling the overpopulation problem.

Why not ? DH is clear a better choice than Rogue. First of all it have 2 different specs rather than having only DPS specs so you have a choice. It is a new and exciting class and now in comparison to WotLK you will not see tons of DH running around because you will mostly sit in dalaran or in the world. With good phasing you will not even see too much of them in DH class/order hall.

No guild will invite 10 DH so this is also not a problem. Unless you are a PUGer you will not see any issues in this field.

[Thandorr]

New development: After looking at our current projected mythic roster we are conq heavy, so there is a little bit of a push to play rogue. I'm enjoying rogue the more I play it, so this is a DIFFICULT decision.

[Deleted]

Why not ? DH is clear a better choice than Rogue. First of all it have 2 different specs rather than having only DPS specs so you have a choice. It is a new and exciting class and now in comparison to WotLK you will not see tons of DH running around because you will mostly sit in dalaran or in the world. With good phasing you will not even see too much of them in DH class/order hall.

No guild will invite 10 DH so this is also not a problem. Unless you are a PUGer you will not see any issues in this field.

This makes no sense from a raiding PoV. If you join a guild as a dps you have one spec as a do but three as a rogue.

The only possible way a do would be better is if your guild has a really unstable main tank and you need to switch all the time. Which sucks anyway.

The real way you should be comparing classes is how much fun they are to play. Currently, coming from one who has a 110dh and 108 rogue, the rogue is a lot more fun

- - - Updated - - -

Outlaw is pretty awesome. I actually like it better tan combat on live. Assassination is pretty much the same thing as on live with an additional bleed and no dispatch. Rogues are far from dead.

Recent changes to sub is also for the better. I agree. Rogue is in a good spot

Edit:
The DHs extremely strong point comes when being out in the world. The mobility is very fun to play around with.
The downside to this is that it's rotations are either annoying or bland atm

[Deleted]

This makes no sense from a raiding PoV. If you join a guild as a dps you have one spec as a do but three as a rogue.

The only possible way a do would be better is if your guild has a really unstable main tank and you need to switch all the time. Which sucks anyway.

The real way you should be comparing classes is how much fun they are to play. Currently, coming from one who has a 110dh and 108 rogue, the rogue is a lot more fun

- - - Updated - - -



Recent changes to sub is also for the better. I agree. Rogue is in a good spot

Edit:
The DHs extremely strong point comes when being out in the world. The mobility is very fun to play around with.
The downside to this is that it's rotations are either annoying or bland atm

From a raiding POV it doesn't make sense to have 3 rogues instead of 2 rogues and 1 DH. You always want to have at least 1 class of each type in the rooster just so some bugged mechanic can be skipped by them. If we would be in a point where rogues (not like now sub) are not topping the DPS charts, having 3 rogues and no DH which could do much more theoretical DH is a problem.

If we would get encounter where you have to jump between some ledges to kill some add somewhere and it is beyond the shadowstep distance or shadowstep is removed while DH can do it without any problems because of double jump. You will have a problem if your guild doesn't have one.

"But but... blizzard doesn't designed encounters this way" well they do. So having at least 1 active DH in team is great.

Last but not the least... What if DH tank is OP for some fight ? Like one specific demon that tosses magic damage only DH tank can mitigate with extreme ease ? Well that would suck if blizzard would ever make such a thing

So i think having at least 1 DH and if he has a spot to be one in his guild and also have a craving to try new thing is a super thing to do.


EDIT:

If you are comparing by the "fun factor" but you made the raiding argument i don't get it. Guilds will always mix/max setups if they have 3 rogues and rogues will be bottom dps they will ask them to reroll something at the top. No matter the fun.

I played Outlaw for a moment and DH and i can say that Outlaw just like combat was before is a "no brain spec" while DH had some nice things going for it but again it wasn't that hard or anything. You can compare Combat/Outlaw to Havoc as the gameplay in (non movement, non passive) builder spender build is very similar.

[l33t]

New development: After looking at our current projected mythic roster we are conq heavy, so there is a little bit of a push to play rogue. I'm enjoying rogue the more I play it, so this is a DIFFICULT decision.

That's not a decision at all, choose rogue, and don't forget to thank me after 1 month of new expansion passes.

Currently I see only one reason to choose havoc DH over rogue: if you're a braindead illidan fan. (Vengeance DH is a completely another story, though).

[Raiju]

Currently I see only one reason to choose havoc DH over rogue: if you're a braindead illidan fan. (Vengeance DH is a completely another story, though).

Or want a unique movement based playstyle dps.

[DemonHunter18]

Rogue's are pussies,hiding behind the shadows.ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I HATE THAT CLASS ALONGSIDE FERAL DRUID!!!!!!!

[Deleted]

From a raiding POV it doesn't make sense to have 3 rogues instead of 2 rogues and 1 DH. You always want to have at least 1 class of each type in the rooster just so some bugged mechanic can be skipped by them. If we would be in a point where rogues (not like now sub) are not topping the DPS charts, having 3 rogues and no DH which could do much more theoretical DH is a problem.

If we would get encounter where you have to jump between some ledges to kill some add somewhere and it is beyond the shadowstep distance or shadowstep is removed while DH can do it without any problems because of double jump. You will have a problem if your guild doesn't have one.

"But but... blizzard doesn't designed encounters this way" well they do. So having at least 1 active DH in team is great.

Last but not the least... What if DH tank is OP for some fight ? Like one specific demon that tosses magic damage only DH tank can mitigate with extreme ease ? Well that would suck if blizzard would ever make such a thing

So i think having at least 1 DH and if he has a spot to be one in his guild and also have a craving to try new thing is a super thing to do.


EDIT:

If you are comparing by the "fun factor" but you made the raiding argument i don't get it. Guilds will always mix/max setups if they have 3 rogues and rogues will be bottom dps they will ask them to reroll something at the top. No matter the fun.

I played Outlaw for a moment and DH and i can say that Outlaw just like combat was before is a "no brain spec" while DH had some nice things going for it but again it wasn't that hard or anything. You can compare Combat/Outlaw to Havoc as the gameplay in (non movement, non passive) builder spender build is very similar.

No no no no no no and no. Just no.

1: The discussion wasn't "if you have three rogues you should bring one dh instead". The discussion was what you as 1 person want to choose for Legion. The position of "you can come as dps if you switch to tank when we need it" is almost always a temporary solution as you instead want stable tanks in a raid guild. With this in mind and the choice being rogue or dh it's a safe bet that you want to dps. With this you have 1 spec as a dh and three as a rogue. Major advantage rogue

2: Blizzard stopped making fights where you need a certain class years ago. The latest I remember was naxx 25 in wrath where you needed mc for a boss.

3: Almost no guilds min/max setups beyond "let's try not having to much of the same class while bringing a balance of melee and ranged, favouring ranged."

4: The most likely single target build of the DH after balancing is done centres around a builder, a spender and a 45 sec cd, unless you go for blade dance on st. No procs, no dots. No brain. The current best build is the momentum build which is even worse and is going to make you nuts. Outlaw on the other hand, being the most simple of the rogue specs currently has procs and buffs to keep up along with pooling and cp management as per usual.