Fun Detected, Fun Nerfed

[FelPlague]

too lazy to see if this has been said to you yet, but you realise that the salvage yard is effectively dead in 7.0 right?

that is, the big crate of salvage is being removed and replaced by something that won't drop boe items anymore (something about making it so people aren't "forced" to play the garrison after 7.0), so any previously unobtainable item that could be found in salvage crates will once again be unobtainable.

to be clear, i'm speaking about items like the scarlet crusade mail, which has no other source after the dungeon revamp. there are lots of similar items, some similar to the scarlet mail set in that they cannot be farmed now that the instance/area they dropped in is gone, some of which dropped from rares that no longer exist.

also, there's a large number of removed quest items with unique models (object shape) and/or skins (unique colour variations) that have been unobtainable since cata. that's literally the only reason people are pissed that "you'll get every quest reward for any quest you completed" was changed to "only items for your class and spec".

i hope this is simple enough for you to understand. if you're still confused, i can try and explain it in simpler terms.



it's a matter of personal taste; for a lot of people raid gear is overdone to the point of ugliness-- i'd honestly hesitate to call it "cream of the crop" after wod, mostly because i like and use the wod quest gear far more often than the wod raid gear (that ravenskar plate set, the cloth set from frostfire ridge, the gorgrond leather set <3). quest items are also incredibly useful for building unique transmog sets (e.g., sets built using maybe one or two pieces from the same art set at most). the best gear for, say, a shado-pan mog comes from lower-level cata quests (flowing water armour, that one plate set in similar colours).

personally i find it far more impressive when someone takes unrelated pieces and makes a nice outfit out of them than someone mogging a full tier set. obviously different people will have different tastes, but someone using less detailed armour to pull the eye to a focal point, say a pair of tier shoulders or a particularly nice weapon, stands out a lot more to me.



agreed. i will 100% throw my support behind official vanilla servers if it means i can actually work for the transmog gear that was removed in cata.



the only place that people rolling on gear they can't wear can happen is in vanilla dungeons/raids-- which i believe happened because people whined about gold? from BC up regardless of your level, if you're grouping with someone you can only roll need on something you can wear. i honestly don't understand why anyone thinks this would change?

unless you're using the whole "ms > os" rule in lower level content, which is dumb and you should stop doing that. group loot and "need for transmog" literally solves this entire problem.

they said they will be moving thos boe's to be obtainable other ways

also i guess you havent kept in the know cause we dont know how yet but there is a item that grants you both the mail, and plate transmog set for scarlett crusader, no matter what char your on

[Raiju]

Precisely.

Why can't I use with my warrior the rare sword I only managed to get to drop (i.e. the class I was playing with didn't influence the drop at all, it was random) on my shaman? Because the system is not account wide, so I can't use with my warrior things I've collected on my shaman. Yet, surprisingly, I can actually get a sword with my shaman and put it on a collection so that my warrior can use it, even if the shaman can't use swords at all (heirlooms).

So yes, people were waiting for the system to be account wide and solve those cases.

They make the system account wide... YES! But wait, it's not really account wide. At least not in the sensible and logical way that they already had set up with heirlooms.

It's completely backwards. Your collection today is your inventory, and you can collect everything, even things you can't use. The things you can't use remain in your collection, but you can't use them on other characters because the collection is not account wide. So they pervert the intent of account wide systems just to keep that fault of the current system. That's not how you design an upgrade to a system. Making other parts much better is not justification for that. Creating a worse system when they already have a superior one is not how you design things.

That just makes the collection process too rigid and square, taking the freedom out of your playtime: you must go through things at least 4 times, with mostly set classes, even if it's not content that depends on which classes you go through it. It's fine for tier sets, because those are class restricted and you actually need that class for getting that tier, but it shouldn't matter for all the other random loot on obsolete content.

If you can't tell which class someone was using to loot some item without more information beyond that it dropped and properly got into their bags, it shouldn't matter for it to enter the collection.

And people will still play all their classes and run that content lots of times, too! But in their own and sensible terms. It won't suddenly and automatically be done in a week. So no reason to try to control or "encourage" how they do that on really obsolete content, and no reason to add superfluous hoops of fabricated frustration to jump.

That was rhetorical, but thanks for showing how ridiculous people are to expect things never offered.

[Kelimbror]

Yes I do, and the fact you insulted me for merely holding that opinion lends no credence to your own position. This isn't about warriors being able to unlock everything, I said "if it binds it should unlock" not "if you can wear it it should unlock."

Hm. So I didn't insult you, as much as provide my opinion on people who hold certain other opinions. If you feel insulted, well...maybe it's because your opinion doesn't hold a lot of ground? It also could be the fact that I addressed what you say your point is, but you acted all offended that I didn't 'get' what you were saying. Just because I quoted you, doesn't mean everything I said is a message for you and you alone.

But no, carry on getting angry over conspiracy theory instead of looking at design and implications what you think would be ideal has on all players.

Edit: And for the record, I like the idea of anything that drops being unlockable for transmog because all the other MMOs I've played with similar systems do this. Wildstar, Rift, etc...they all let you even wear whatever armor you want, not just unlock it.

It's awesome, but they are also designed and played very differently than WoW. Most of the gear I get in that game is from solo play, but most of the gear gained in this game is going to be with groups. Do I really want Sammy Warlock from the Block master looting my leather druid armor to himself or having his buddy do the same just because he wants to look cool on his alt? Yeah idk. WoW players do a lot of silly things.

[Gigabear]

Hm. So I didn't insult you, as much as provide my opinion on people who hold certain other opinions. .

Well perhaps you enjoy being called "not too bright?" But I'm not offended. I've had far worse in my time. Just figured I'd point it out. I offered reasons why I feel the implementation is bad and should be changed. I would be interested in how you feel this helps the game overall and improves enjoyment as opposed to lessening it?

[Deleted]

Please stop saying this, you don't even have to do close to loremaster 8 times.

A few things, 1) it's my first time saying it. 2) I can say what I want you prick. 3) Doing it even more than once will be difficult.

[Kelimbror]

Well perhaps you enjoy being called "not too bright?"

I tend to hold opinions that can be discussed in a higher level of conversation than 'rawr but I want dis'...so I don't usually lend any credence to that type of criticism. Hence why I said if you feel that way, maybe your opinion doesn't have a lot of merit?

I would be interested in how you feel this helps the game overall and improves enjoyment as opposed to lessening it?

I've already provided talking points around this, but you have to read entire posts to see that. Maybe you missed my edit on the last post and the entire second half of the first one? Idk. It's clear you feel very strongly about this, but I think you are indicative of a lot of Blizzard players who react first and think last. It's easier to think they are the Boogeyman out to ruin your life than admit that they know more about game design than you do.

I've been there, done that. Sometimes hard calls are the right call, sometimes they are not. In this case I think not retroactively giving us rewards is a bad call, but going forward it makes sense for a lot of reasons I've already pointed out. Will I be satisfied with the outcome? I don't know. Like you, it may eventually make me unhappy...but I doubt it. For some people collecting transmog on various characters will be their end game. It will supplement mine, for sure, and I don't really want that experience shortened because a bunch of other people want to take their one lonely character and blast out a raid 2 times and be done.

I'm cool with hitting it up every week or two.

[Raiju]

A few things, 1) it's my first time saying it. 2) I can say what I want [...] 3) Doing it even more than once will be difficult.

Well aren't you a ball of sunshine. You are repeating it, hence the request to stop. I can't stop you saying it but I can ask you to stop spreading misinformation that keeps perpetuating this myth.

Have a wonderful day

I would also recommend editing, someone's bound to report you for that.

[Kelimbror]

I can ask you to stop spreading misinformation that keeps perpetuating this myth.

I heard that you have to do Loremaster 27 times in order to get all the gear in the game. My source is trustworthy. *CACKLES*

[Gigabear]

It's clear you feel very strongly about this, but I think you are indicative of a lot of Blizzard players who react first and think last. It's easier to think they are the Boogeyman out to ruin your life than admit that they know more about game design than you do.

You assume too much, especially the last part. Good day.

[FelPlague]

Yes I do, and the fact you insulted me for merely holding that opinion lends no credence to your own position. This isn't about warriors being able to unlock everything, I said "if it binds it should unlock" not "if you can wear it it should unlock."

They are forcing you to run old raids several times over several weeks instead of all in a bunch. This forces you to remain subbed if there is a mog you want, even if you otherwise wouldn't be, like in the 14 month drought they seem to be ramping up for again with changes like this.

I know well the pain of having to run for a mog over several months. This system COULD have fixed that issue and made people happy, but we can't have that.

you mean like how we have had to do it since cataclysm? if you wanted to mog your lock, you had to go farm that on your lock, now atleast, with most sets you will be able to farm it also on your preist or mage, or preist, mage, warrior, druid, shaman, if its a staff or something...

so please tell me how this new transmog system is a downgrade to our current one?

[Deleted]

Well aren't you a ball of sunshine. You are repeating it, hence the request to stop. I can't stop you saying it but I can ask you to stop spreading misinformation that keeps perpetuating this myth.

Have a wonderful day

I just call it as I see it.

When Raiju crawls back into his troll cave and stops derailing threads like he normally does, we can continue this topic.

Doing Loremaster more than once is hard enough. The main question, why do Blizz want us to do it again? Are they just trying to make it so that you have something else to do? Is this one of their ideas to get us back in the world?

[FelPlague]

Those restrictions are pointless no matter how you look at it. my lock is sitting on a few plate items that neither of my plate wearers were lucky enough to get despite trying often. And they told us in order for it to be unlocked it must meet certain requirements, to hell with that.

so your complaining you got plate on your lock and they cant use it?

man its allmost like since cata ive run icc on my lock, and keep getting bryntoll, but just have never been able to get it on my dk... am i complaining blizz needs to make it so unlocking every transmog in the game takes 1 week? no

[Gigabear]

you mean like how we have had to do it since cataclysm? if you wanted to mog your lock, you had to go farm that on your lock, now atleast, with most sets you will be able to farm it also on your preist or mage, or preist, mage, warrior, druid, shaman, if its a staff or something...

so please tell me how this new transmog system is a downgrade to our current one?

It's not a downgrade, but it's not much of an upgrade beyond bag space saving either. This was an excellent opportunity to remove a time based restriction on cosmetic content that has no legitimate reason to require it. Raid items are no more valuable than other loot for xmog purposes, but because of the weekly lookout system in place from when the raids were actually content and the loot valuable, or to protect mount drops from being farmed quickly, they are unduly restricted
much more than other xmog pieces simply by virtue of dropping in a raid.

They're item appearances, not raid loot that will have a direct effect on your stats. Putting them on a weekly lockout in the first place makes no sense, let alone creating a new restriction to prevent that restriction from being circumvented.

[FelPlague]

I just call it as I see it.

When Raiju crawls back into his troll cave and stops derailing threads like he normally does, we can continue this topic.

Doing Loremaster more than once is hard enough. The main question, why do Blizz want us to do it again? Are they just trying to make it so that you have something else to do? Is this one of their ideas to get us back in the world?

i dont know, mabye they want people to work for stuff?

[Raiju]

I just call it as I see it.

When Raiju crawls back into his troll cave and stops derailing threads like he normally does, we can continue this topic.

That topic of spreading misinformation?

Doing Loremaster more than once is hard enough. The main question, why do Blizz want us to do it again? Are they just trying to make it so that you have something else to do? Is this one of their ideas to get us back in the world?

Let's get some PERSPECTIVE here. What's stopping you getting the xmog now? Why aren't you doing it?

Blizzard is adding all (intended) moggable items your character obtains, or could've obtained through completed quests to your wardrobe. You guys proceed to throw a fit that they aren't literally adding *ALL* items, regardless of whether it was ever explicitly offered, because for some reason you all suddenly care about having a complete wardrobe 99% of which you will never use?

[Deleted]

It's not a downgrade, but it's not much of an upgrade beyond bag space saving either. This was an excellent opportunity to remove a time based restriction on cosmetic content that has no legitimate reason to require it. Raid items are no more valuable than other loot for xmog purposes, but because of the weekly lookout system in place from when the raids were actually content and the loot valuable, or to protect mount drops from being farmed quickly, they are unduly restricted
much more than other xmog pieces simply by virtue of dropping in a raid.

They're item appearances, not raid loot that will have a direct effect on your stats. Putting them on a weekly lockout in the first place makes no sense, let alone creating a new restriction to prevent that restriction from being circumvented.

Is the point of the new system not purely for bag saving space? Was that not the number 1 complaint regarding transmog?

- - - Updated - - -

That topic of spreading misinformation?



Let's get some PERSPECTIVE here. What's stopping you getting the xmog now? Why aren't you doing it?

Blizzard is adding all (intended) moggable items your character obtains, or could've obtained through completed quests to your wardrobe. You guys proceed to throw a fit that they aren't literally adding *ALL* items, regardless of whether it was ever explicitly offered, because for some reason you all suddenly care about having a complete wardrobe 99% of which you will never use?

I am doing it now..... I started once the new system was announced. Since I only get time to raid log at the moment, it has taken me a while.

I always a cared for transmog too since it was released. I do raids for progression and for transmog. I couldn't care about stats on a piece of gear as long as I am not a burden. Transmog is my end game.

[Gigabear]

Is the point of the new system not purely for bag saving space? Was that not the number 1 complaint regarding transmog?

If the system could have helped eliminate other issues as well, why not let it? Why spend dev resource time to craft a specific restriction so you can not unlock these items on alts? Waiting 8 weeks for a single piece to complete a mog is frustrating. You would still have to run the raids to get them however many times, so it does not at all save effort, it just keeps you from having to wait weeks on end to reach the result.

[Raiju]

That has no relevance on while you suddenly feel FORCED to do more content, why weren't you systematically working your way through mogit before this feature was announced?

Let's also point out between shared mogs, the quests that actually give unique items being a minority, and quests that give gear still likely being below 50%, you aren't getting close to multi-loremaster levels outside of the factional split. You'll probably find you're over halfway there by virtue of your current collection.

[FelPlague]

It's not a downgrade, but it's not much of an upgrade beyond bag space saving either. This was an excellent opportunity to remove a time based restriction on cosmetic content that has no legitimate reason to require it. Raid items are no more valuable than other loot for xmog purposes, but because of the weekly lookout system in place from when the raids were actually content and the loot valuable, or to protect mount drops from being farmed quickly, they are unduly restricted
much more than other xmog pieces simply by virtue of dropping in a raid.

They're item appearances, not raid loot that will have a direct effect on your stats. Putting them on a weekly lockout in the first place makes no sense, let alone creating a new restriction to prevent that restriction from being circumvented.

bag space saver, transmog changes when you switch specs, saved sets you can easily change between, you can also share these sets with people, and show items you do and do not have, allowing you to find where to get the other stuff, aswell as making farming easier by allowing you to farm cloth on preists, mages and warlocks, insted of just the char you want it on...

all of these massive upgrades yet people are shitting off about some horrible looking vanilla gear, most of it having copies in later patches/ the re-work, and the ones that dont, ussauly having peices that look allmost the same but better... it sucks yes, but if all you had to do was complete lorewalker once to get all the transmogs, 1 the acheivments would be worthless as everyone will have them (really... everyone will cause its only 50 of each kind)


also really, people are saying "i want to get everything in the game" but then complain when they go "oh but its going to take awhile"

heres a simple thought...

11 classes well leveling do mabye 4 zones per charecter, all the way through well leveling, of vanilla, 1 per char in outland, all the way through, same with wrath, then mop

and by the time you have 11 (12 in legion) chars at max, you will have all (most) of the old quests done


the issue is people are right out going "i will have to do loremaster 8 times"

yes if you want to collect everything, for both factions, yes you will...

but should blizzard really base the game around people who want every single, little, thing? and make it super easy to get everything, so once you have everything then it would feel useless

also about 99% of your mog items you wont even use! i have 254 cape looks right now piled up over all toons banks/void storage/quests... and yet i plan to use none :P

[Blackmist]

Why not just collect the items you want, rather than everything?

I don't understand this attitude that you want every single transmog item (and tbh, I think you have issues if you do), but don't want to put in any work to get them.

Why must the entire game be balanced around your need to fill an imaginary book with costumes? Why can't it just be a way to unlock outfits so you don't need to keep them around in a system with limited space?