If this game is going to get into the esports realm, it will be interesting to see what kind of restrictions are placed on hero selection
If this game is going to get into the esports realm, it will be interesting to see what kind of restrictions are placed on hero selection
One of the points of the game is to come up with a crafty team composition
Another point of the game is to counter the opposing team composition with one of your own
There shouldn't be a cap in my opinion, but it can of course be explored by Blizzard and their testers
Remember folks: THERE'S A COUNTER TO EVERYTHING! You just have to find it.
As previously mentioned in the higher skill levels this isn't true, there were a lot of tournament games (for example the gosu ones) where professional teams had mirrorplay nearly every game because of specific stacks being OP at the given time and the only way to play against that stack was to mirror it until heroes used in these stacks got nerfed by blizzard. So this statement is simply not true (as previously noted) but i guess you didn't read through the pages.
Or perhaps they hadn't found the right counter yet.
No game is perfectly balanced, but Blizzard will find a way to make the best balance in a game that they can. Be it limit heroes to a certain amount individually, collectively, or by means of nerfing single characters.
You cannot speak for everyone and the entire game saying; "Oh well the 'pro's did it in a Beta tournament, so that's the way it is."
It's a creative process and everyone thinks, acts & behaves differently.
( I suppose I shouldn't mention that no one can be called a pro yet because the game isn't even out yet. :facepalm: )
Yeah because its not like the meta develops or anything? These were pre-release tourney's man, the meta still has a long ways to go and even pros don't know EVERY counter.
Example: Reunited has been dominating on KOTH maps with the double Winston, Double Lucio, Double Tracer team comp. Surefour on Cloud 9 went Bastion and single-handedly changed the tide of the match and Reunited had to switch comps. Its interesting because Bastion went from very niche to being used much more since he hard counters double Winston comps(Which were previously thought to be "unbeatable".
Vid for proof(1:47:00):
watch?v=B-UnsT1i1_k(you'll have to type the first part of youtube link yourself because this site won't let me post links :/ )
C9 ended up having to switch from the Bastion eventually but they did effectively counter the comp mentioned above. If something is dominating after like a month of competitive play then this discussion should be had but until then there is no reason to restrict teams until people have enough time to come up with counters.f
In basketball, only one person can score at a time. So having a whole team of guys who can shoot from fullcourt is pointless. In fact it's worse than pointless because if your whole strat is to threaten from underneath your own hoop then you're too easily defended and the best you can hope for is to hit every shot, trade 3s for 2s, and never foul, otherwise you're screwed. In a game like Overwatch, or CoD, or TF2 if you prefer, everybody has the ball all the time and they can all shoot simultaneously. So having a whole team of (for example) snipers is cheesy, unless they have glaring, easily exploitable weaknesses, to the point where their counter class can 1v5 them.
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This was literally not a case of countering a certain comp but of certain synergies being too OP and leading to stacking. Winstons barrier got pretty much cut in half a day after a tournament by a nerf because it was stacking too much which hasn't been noticed before because 1 winston was pretty much fine with the bigger barrier and after that zenyattas orb got changed because double tracer or double genji with perma orb were uncontrollable by anything but mirrorplay, which again would have probably been fine if it wasn't two flankers but one that had the orb.
I am not speaking for everyone, i'm simply stating a fact, there have been hero comps that have stacked in a ridiculous way and got nerfed not because imbalance in the hero per se, but because of the way they stacked when used in multiples. The stacks are giving exactly zero to competitive play and are making it harder on the watchers to follow the gameplay which is a no go in esports as well as making matchups generally more dull, this is my opinion.
I call them pros because most of the players have been pro gaming in other games for years so yeah the game isn't out yet but you can be pretty sure that reunited and co. will be there playing in the competitive scene after the game releases as well so that's what they are. so go facepalm somewhere else.
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Sure it develops and it will continue to do so, but so far there have been already nerfs based off of the synergy of stacking heroes and not because a hero by itself needed it, which i personally dislike.
[/QUOTE]Example: Reunited has been dominating on KOTH maps with the double Winston, Double Lucio, Double Tracer team comp. Surefour on Cloud 9 went Bastion and single-handedly changed the tide of the match and Reunited had to switch comps. Its interesting because Bastion went from very niche to being used much more since he hard counters double Winston comps(Which were previously thought to be "unbeatable".
Vid for proof(1:47:00):
watch?v=B-UnsT1i1_k(you'll have to type the first part of youtube link yourself because this site won't let me post links :/ )
C9 ended up having to switch from the Bastion eventually but they did effectively counter the comp mentioned above. If something is dominating after like a month of competitive play then this discussion should be had but until then there is no reason to restrict teams until people have enough time to come up with counters.f
Ah ok, first i'm gonna say this, because it is a petpeeve of mine. Surefour has been accused of cheating multiple times during this beta alone and i watched the video because i was curious if something looks strange again, look at the snapping of the camera while he gets spectated before and after he goes into tank mode on the fight where reunited takes over the point...... every single time someone arguments about bastion being used or something being countered it's literally every single time because of a play of surefour (look up my other posts, seriously every time someone argued a point with me about something and tried to prove it,it was with a video of surefour). So i will take that with the appropriate grain of salt tbh.
But yeah i'm glad they switched things up. Now I'm gonna say the same thing the commentators said basically "FINALLY THEY SWITCHED OFF OF 2x2x2 vs mirrorplay" because it got SO much more exciting to watch just because of the amount of diversity the hero switches brought into the game. watching the double winston double lucio double tracer vs double winston double lucio double tracer on the control point before that was a fucking tedious clusterfuck, to be honest this alone is enough to make me want a 1hero per team limit imo. Also as soon as the point fell C9 went back to double winston double lucio double tracer (ugh). In any case we will see after release how they will handle stacking synergies etc. and if either blizzard themselves or tournament organization or league organization will put a custom hero limit on their events (like the esl had for a while).
To be honest the opposite makes more sense - People in ranked play should be aware of how to counter cheese, however your Average Joe that randomly signs up for a game might not have the insight and might find it super frustrating to fight 6x the same hero or 3 bastions guarded by a shield and healing.
Custom is when you make your own game against people you invite, meaning no randoms will ever join it. So why shouldn't multiple of the same heroes be allowed in that? And the reason I don't want it for random and ranked is because it will most likely turn into the meta and everyone will ALWAYS play the same hero even if you start countering them.
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I always chose a champion no one else was using.
Feels weird when I play the same as someone else on my team.
double winston double tracer double lucio from reunited, pretty much winning every game on KotH maps. they lost to c9 who mirrorplayed the same comp but no one else afaik.
So AGAIN in competitive double stacks proved to be actually problematic as well as extremely tedious to watch and it's not a l2p issue, it's just the synergy of certain comps for certain mapmodes
Last edited by Zoidberg747; 2016-05-22 at 03:19 AM.