What's the point of talents anymore?

[Unholyground]

I see that eventually Talents will either be removed or replaced with generic % increases like how Artifact Traits are now.

No, you can bet next expansion they will be similar, I actually hope they bring glyphs back for even further alteration but ONLY allow you to apply them to talents. That is where true customization will start.

[RedGamer030]

No, you can bet next expansion they will be similar,

I said eventually, not next expansion.

[Unholyground]

I said eventually, not next expansion.

They already said they did this to move away from homogenization, it is a step in the right direction, sure it takes more to balance but it is worth it.

[Will]

Draenor perks replaced the spells that classes traditionally got from leveling up in previous expansions. Because they replaced something impactful (new spells), they had to be fairly impactful as well, in order to keep the same feel.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm still not convinced the draenor perks acted as "spell replacements" per se because most of the perks were just super boring. Oh you can now cast an existing spell in X form. Your Y spell is now passively active all the time. Your Z spell now lasts a little longer. That sort of stuff. You can hardly compare it to the glory of getting an entirely new spell! And it was even worse for kitties, they basically stripped a baseline component from one of our spells in MoP and gave it back to us as a perk. Yeah, nice one Blizz, give us the same functionality we had before and polish it as some kind of reward.

[Mafic]

There are no arguments left which wouldnt net myself an infraction, sorry.

Same.

Give me the old talent system if they are going to butcher the new talent system introduced from MoP.

[Rivin]

I hear what you're saying, but I'm still not convinced the draenor perks acted as "spell replacements" per se because most of the perks were just super boring. Oh you can now cast an existing spell in X form. Your Y spell is now passively active all the time. Your Z spell now lasts a little longer. That sort of stuff. You can hardly compare it to the glory of getting an entirely new spell! And it was even worse for kitties, they basically stripped a baseline component from one of our spells in MoP and gave it back to us as a perk. Yeah, nice one Blizz, give us the same functionality we had before and polish it as some kind of reward.

Yeah, but they had more impact than "This ability deals 10% more damage".

And I do believe that Blizzard explicitly said that they were giving us Draenor perks instead of giving us new spells while leveling during WoD beta.

[RedGamer030]

They already said they did this to move away from homogenization, it is a step in the right direction, sure it takes more to balance but it is worth it.

If they can make it work, it will be worth it. Otherwise it should be removed or replaced with Artifact Traits re-imagined.

[Unholyground]

If they can make it work, it will be worth it. Otherwise it should be removed or replaced with Artifact Traits re-imagined.

The game will never truly be balanced people just need to accept it in the end. If you play to be competitive you have to play the best classes statistically for each role, it is not really that hard if you are about progression.

[Deleted]

I don't think talents ever had a point in the first place, everyone would take the same anyway
Actually, Cataclysm made all the talent choices important, awhile back in vanilla, BC, and WotLK you would copy the builds of bleeding edge players and never go back to the talent tab

I personnally don't care either way, in my view "talents" are just about clicking things in your UI, nothing interesting

[Fabinas]

The thing is that if Blizzard wants players to choose a spec and an identity, they have to minimise spec AND talent swap. It seemed that Artifacts would minimise spec swapping at least for the start of the expansion and that this was intentional, but their back and forth from restricting first spec swap with gold costs and then talent swap means they don't have a clear goal of providing identity, despite the whole "fantasy for classes" arguments. I just wish instead of defending the changes they do by answering player arguments, they stuck to "we believe this is better for the game for class and spec identity, sorry we won't budge to your demands, the game is changed, it's Legion and not WOD, adjust".

On the other hand, talents have to be very distinctive between classes and specs. It's probably hard to come up with orginal and varied talents, but spec identity will not come when they give the same talent on the same row on all specs of a class and it's just theorycrafting and simming that proves if it is worth taking or not. Talents also should alter class mechanics for a distinct identity, not class numbers.

[Kuntantee]

They have been butchering the good talent system they provided in Cata and it has nothing to do with the way a players alter/change the talents. Talents are nothing more than weak skills/passives anymore. They are weak, they are not fun and they are not impactful. It wasn't perfect in Cata or Mists, but it was better. They need to completely rethink the talents.

[Ragetacular]

They have been butchering the good talent system they provided in Cata and it has nothing to do with the way a players alter/change the talents. Talents are nothing more than weak skills/passives anymore. They are weak, they are not fun and they are not impactful. It wasn't perfect in Cata or Mists, but it was better. They need to completely rethink the talents.

The good talent system that had zero way to deviate from the norm if you wanted acceptable damage?

[Kuntantee]

The good talent system that had zero way to deviate from the norm if you wanted acceptable damage?

It's still (in retail) that way for overwhelming majority of classes/specs. Just in a much more weaker and less impactful form.

[Noxina]

It's still (in retail) that way for overwhelming majority of classes/specs. Just in a much more weaker and less impactful form.

Except back with the old system you NEVER changed your talents, you speced and stuck with it for the rest of the game.

At least now we swap talents with about every fight or so.

[dextersmith]

I want your choice to actually be actually restrictive, not just changing from paying gold to paying a reagent,
What is your opinion?

So don't do it and let others play as they wish.

[Purpleisbetter]

actually, cataclysm made all the talent choices important

w...t...f...

[Golden]

What is your opinion?

Seems like Blizzard got things backward. It made sense to me to have a cost for changing specs. Instead, Blizzard chose to make that free and put a cost on changing talents.

So...I will once again be switching specs for free, and since I have a spec that specializes in single-target DPS and another that specializes in AoE, I will once again be exploiting that to top DPS charts. Thanks Blizzard.

[Deleted]

w...t...f...

It's definitely the case
An ability VS 5% mana cost reduction, which is the most important ?

[Mafic]

Except back with the old system you NEVER changed your talents, you speced and stuck with it for the rest of the game.

At least now we swap talents with about every fight or so.

That isn't true.

That only applies in dungeons and raids. If you were doing other content you would change talents for utility or do hybrid builds.

This current system is punishing players because they want to use utility which was the whole point of the new talent system (eg offering more freedom than the old talent system).

[Rivin]

It's definitely the case
An ability VS 5% mana cost reduction, which is the most important ?

Cataclysm was still using the original talent system, just with the trees significantly shorter. Perhaps you meant MoP, which introduced the current system?