Fun Detected, Fun Nerfed

[emilylorange]

You're making an excellent argument that Blizzard should never talk about any game changes ahead of time. If the wardrobe system had gone in unannounced, everyone complaining would have been stunned and thrilled. Instead, when it goes in, they'll gripe, "But it's not quite as good/convenient as the version discussed at Blizzcon. Blizzard is the worst."

I'm not even sure that it's 'not quite as good' so much as people took a fancy powerpoint presentation and envisioned something different from the summary than what the implementation really is.

[Tharkkun]

This sounds like a lovely idea. I think I've seen something similar mentioned before in the thread, but I'd be all for it. If I, as a roleplayer, have dozens of pieces of non-Plate gear on my Warrior that I'd like to add to the Wardrobe/Transmog collection, I would be willing to pay a small fee for each item to do it. As it stands, all those pieces will just remain in my inventory/void storage/bank.

.99 cents an item. Blizzard can iTunes you to death.

[JemiS]

The majority of the complaints in this thread relate to quest rewards that were removed prior to Transmog even being announced. It's a problem because there is no way to get those item appearances for the Wardrobe unless you just so happened to do those removed quests on the correct combination of characters.

As compared to now, where you can't have them no matter what?

Seems like a gigantic improvement to me. And my paladin, that I've mained since Vanilla, will get all of the quest mogs they would have gotten from doing those quests.

Not really bothered that my mage alt I made last week won't have access to removed, Vanilla quests that I didn't do on that character, or even another character of the same class.

[emilylorange]

Yes, forced as compared to what they initially said how the system would work. Blizzard lies, and people don't care. Nothing new. It's the defenders here who are responsible for things like WoD. Players get what they deserve.

By even the most liberal, laughable definition of 'force', the word doesn't apply, and hyperbole and exaggeration like this is why comments like yours are going to be ignored by anyone with decision making power.

But congrats on being the 1000th person to accuse me of personally being responsible for 'destroying wow'. Intentionally polarizing, pointless accusations with no basis and filled with irrelevant personal attacks make the internet go 'round. I think I have a trophy sitting around somewhere. It says '6th grade bowling champion' but I think it'll look nice anyway.

[shanthi]

I'm not even sure that it's 'not quite as good' so much as people took a fancy powerpoint presentation and envisioned something different from the summary than what the implementation really is.

Yeah, that's why I said "led to believe," as, for example, that thing about a rogue unlocking a staff isn't based on anything the designers said. But it is true that they said that anything you could equip, you could unlock, which has been changed a bit (probably to avoid warriors being able to unlock far, far more stuff than, say, a priest).

[Damajin]

No. You assume those rules apply to BOE's. It follows the standard transmog rules. Btw this video is edited. Here's the real one. https://youtu.be/wTr-9ST7PQ8?t=207 I bookmarked it for you at 3:27 seconds.

If you had a choice to pick either the chestpiece of the shield we'll unlock "both of them." There is absolutely no mention at all that all the other items awarded from that quest which you can't use will be unlocked. Case closed.

"Also items awarded from every quest you've ever completed.....including items you may not have chosen."

My entire deal in this thread has had zip to do with BoEs and everything to do with quest rewards from all the zones and dungeons you do. I've never expected BoEs to unlock unless they were soulbound, the info given in the transmog panel clearly denotes quest rewards would be unlocked even if you didn't choose them.

Them walking that back to what they've said now is bullshit. Doing Loremaster across the board should be enough, then the real grind should be those BoEs, Raid drops, rep armor and other things.

[Lei]

Uh. Yea, actually. Pets used to be an item that each individual character had to carry.

'From day one in Mop' ain't 'day one'. lol

What are you talking about? I said when Blizz revamps things, they usually do away with the old restrictions. Just like i could summon the Tiny Sporebat and ALL other old rep companions. Not sure what you didn't understand.
System = new (They should call it "What should we have done ages ago" but we were too busy playing snakes on our Nokia 3210 for mere 10 years without looking up from the screen)
Old items that go into it = no restriction
new items that go into it = maybe restricted (toys)
other special items = rogue and druid toy.

I'm not sure if you realize using the toy box is a ridiculous example given it's a perfect example of them going case by case and lowering restrictions overtime. Surely you can see that allowing everything and having to take away is FAR FAR worse than slowly releasing restrictions in terms of player expectation. Look at flying. They gave it out, and then they wished they hadn't.

case by case but with pattern: old reputation items -> no restriction, class toys -> restricted, new reputation items -> restricted (I'm positive they will lift the WoD toys at one point at the end of legion)

I have farmed the mop rare drops 3 times already, since blizz flip-flopped on them, but that's a bit easier than doing loremaster 7 times more.

[emilylorange]

What are you talking about? I said when Blizz revamps things, they usually do away with the old restrictions. Just like i could summon the Tiny Sporebat and ALL other old rep companions. Not sure what you didn't understand.
System = new (They should call it "What should we have done ages ago" but we were too busy playing snakes on our Nokia 3210 for mere 10 years without looking up from the screen)
Old items that go into it = no restriction
new items that go into it = maybe restricted (toys)
other special items = rogue and druid toy.

I think it's interesting you were insisting wardrobe and transmog have nothing to do with each other earlier but you're happy to draw comparisons from the pet battle and toy system to be honest.

[ComputerNerd]

When we say need (or at least when i do), we mean that we are going to do whatever it takes to unlock everything we can.

Personally, i don't mind doing a ton of quests six more times (i've done far more ridiculous things in WoW for far less reward. I did Zul'Drak dailies for 6 years straight to get the Deputy Pa'trolla Badge. A few quests are nothing next to that) but others find having to do quests that they have already done 6 more times to be deeply frustrating, and i see no reason to criticize that.

Removed quests tho? Like i said: Legacy Server=Song in my Heart, but if they have us grind Timewalking or some other such nonsense to unlock hundreds of removed quest rewards that we already earned? That would be bullshit.



About that... When the Transmog revamp was first announced as being a future thing in MoP, i was planning to ticket Blizz over and over until they restored every single removed quest reward that i earned. I was sooooo excited that i wouldn't have to do that when the Wardrobe system was detailed xD

And i never moved on and will never move on. I have been asking for the original 1-60 quests to be restored in some form since they were removed and don't plan to stop.

The desire to unlock everything is the problem though, and one that players are creating purely by their own choice.
I personally look at the benefits of the new system, in that it gives me more options without cluttering inventory.

[Tharkkun]

"Also items awarded from every quest you've ever completed.....including items you may not have chosen."

My entire deal in this thread has had zip to do with BoEs and everything to do with quest rewards from all the zones and dungeons you do. I've never expected BoEs to unlock unless they were soulbound, the info given in the transmog panel clearly denotes quest rewards would be unlocked even if you didn't choose them.

Them walking that back to what they've said now is bullshit. Doing Loremaster across the board should be enough, then the real grind should be those BoEs, Raid drops, rep armor and other things.

Oh my god. Go watch the video. Jonathan Lecraft, from Blizzard, specifically says that if you completed a quest that gave you the option of choosing a chest piece or a shield and you chose the shield, that both the chestpiece and shield would be in your wardrobe. Every quest like that has 3-5 items. Blizzard never *stated* that the items you couldn't wear would also be added. That's a 100% assumption on your part.

[Azurfel]

tbh I found it pretty shocking they were letting you have any of those items at all, given their previous stance on things that have been removed.



Yep the person I was responding to got snotty when I said the same thing to him on the last page *shrug*

To be fair, should you expect a company named Blizzard to move faster than a glacial pace?

Every other time they've added a collection system, deleted quest rewards have been given to us by one means or another. Pets and mounts were mailed to us after the Wrath pre-patch and Toys from quests were all added to the Toy Box automatically when the WoD pre-patch went live. So i can't say i found it even slightly surprising that they are giving us removed quest appearances even if i had worried that they wouldn't (especially since they had to have realized people like me would have been asking support to restore every single quest reward)

Also, i'm a girl xD

The desire to unlock everything is the problem though, and one that players are creating purely by their own choice.
I personally look at the benefits of the new system, in that it gives me more options without cluttering inventory.

Again, i don't mind doing all the quests that are still in the game on as many as 6 additional characters. I don't mind having to run every raid weekly on every character who can. I specifically have a problem with being completely locked out of learning removed quest rewards that i completed the quests for pre-Cata just because i didn't have any reason to make sure i did every quest multiple times such that every possible reward was equipable on one of them.

[ComputerNerd]

Again, i don't mind doing all the quests that are still in the game on as many as 6 additional characters. I don't mind having to run every raid weekly on every character who can. I specifically have a problem with being completely locked out of learning removed quest rewards that i completed the quests for pre-Cata just because i didn't have any reason to make sure i did every quest multiple times such that every possible reward was equipable on one of them.

And where has it been said you are "locked out" when blizzard said they could reintroduce the rewards.
That is why we need more information on that.
The problem is no solution will fit everybody.

Those who I will term legacy players, those who completed the old quests would benefit from that but exclude them from players who were not there.
Should those be denied to new players ?

And reintroducing them as new rewards gives new players an opportunity but penalises those old players who then have to "earn" them again.

Neither system is outright good or bad for everyone.

And that is why people need to stop bashing blizzard over the decision without knowing what their potential plans are.
You cant bash something as being bad when you don't know what the other option is.

[Azurfel]

And where has it been said you are "locked out" when blizzard said they could reintroduce the rewards.
That is why we need more information on that.
The problem is no solution will fit everybody.

Those who I will term legacy players, those who completed the old quests would benefit from that but exclude them from players who were not there.
Should those be denied to new players ?

And reintroducing them as new rewards gives new players an opportunity but penalises those old players who then have to "earn" them again.

Neither system is outright good or bad for everyone.

As i said, i think the ideal would be adding Legacy realms allowing everyone to have access to these mogs, but i fully admit that's partially because i really want Legacy realms anyway xD

[Beet]

I wish Blizzard would fuck off with their "we would rather offer other opportunities to earn otherwise lost appearances". They've been saying this shit since Cata. They pretty much only added some stuff to the BMAH and that's it.

[Azurfel]

I wish Blizzard would fuck off with their "we would rather offer other opportunities to earn otherwise lost appearances". They've been saying this shit since Cata. They pretty much only added some stuff to the BMAH and that's it.

Also this. It's not like people haven't been asking for ways to obtain these appearances since Transmog was added.

So far Blizz have cherry picked (pretty much just T3, Vanilla PVP gear, Dungeon Set 1/2 and a handful of removed raid weapons have been made obtainable again) and i see no reason to think that they are likely to get comprehensive about it now.

[ComputerNerd]

As i said, i think the ideal would be adding Legacy realms allowing everyone to have access to these mogs, but i fully admit that's partially because i really want Legacy realms anyway xD

That wouldn't be ideal given the learning of a new game, levelling new characters etc.
Plus wouldn't that result in a number of players who are simply there as long as they need to be for transmog and nothing else.
We need proper discussion on how blizzard could return old quest rewards, and while legacy servers are one solution it isn't the only one.
Perhaps old dungeon sets like the Defias leather could be made into a rare ensemble drop from the dungeon etc.
Quest rewards would be trickier though.

[Azurfel]

That wouldn't be ideal given the learning of a new game, levelling new characters etc.
Plus wouldn't that result in a number of players who are simply there as long as they need to be for transmog and nothing else.
We need proper discussion on how blizzard could return old quest rewards, and while legacy servers are one solution it isn't the only one.
Perhaps old dungeon sets like the Defias leather could be made into a rare ensemble drop from the dungeon etc.
Quest rewards would be trickier though.

Oh, i honestly assume the iconic dungeon sets that were removed will be showing up as ensembles. Scarlet Chain is already in the files after all (in both mail and plate versions), so i can't imagine Defias Leather and the Scholo sets are far behind.

It's the quest rewards and random dungeon off pieces i can't see them re-adding to the current game outside of rare exceptions

[Lei]

I think it's interesting you were insisting wardrobe and transmog have nothing to do with each other earlier but you're happy to draw comparisons from the pet battle and toy system to be honest.

Because they are all the same: things that are in other (newer) games for years and WoW players are begging for, because it makes sense. These "cool new additions" usually lag years behind in WoW compared to other games. So when they finally get implemented, the devs tend to be fair, and lift restrictions, while add some restrictions with brand new items.
When the devs sit on a 12 year old game and add a QoL thing (account wide pets, toybox, wardrobe) that is a result/hanidicap of their game being old, they should be less greedy about it (like GW2 is a fantastic example, the wardrobe and transmutation system is pretty fair in that game). That is what I think about it anyways.

[Corb]

I wish Blizzard would fuck off with their "we would rather offer other opportunities to earn otherwise lost appearances". They've been saying this shit since Cata. They pretty much only added some stuff to the BMAH and that's it.

10 to 1 it's gonna be something with Timewalking, if anything.

God I hope not.

[Deleted]

Good job i mostly just play War, pally and DK