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  1. #1

    Win 10 (frustrations!)

    Decided to upgrade to Win 10 but to be safe I kept my Win 7 installation intact and just installed Win 10 on this comp as a tester with a non-activated version (which to my amusement doesn't have much in the way of restrictions). Anyway I've come across a bunch of issues that I somewhat suspected but still need to get around. I suspected Cubase 5 (DAW recording software) would not work and that is the case, but that was somewhat predictable.

    What I wasn't expecting. My Presonus Firestudio Project (sound interface) doesn't work, it's meant to be supported and has Win 10 drivers but it just doesn't work. I thought it might be the Firewire port drivers but they are showing up perfectly fine in the device manager as working despite my Sabertooth P67 motherboard not having Win10 driver updates available. The interface has a driver/control application called "Universal Control" which is updated for Win 10, but the interface simply doesn't register as connected on Universtal Control, and while Win10 recognises the unit (it shows up as a Presonus Firestudio Project in device manager) it states that it's missing a driver.

    I can't find a solution anywhere. If I had gone ahead and upgraded my Win 7 installation like Microsoft are trying to force me to do every 5mins with reminder popups and scheduled updates I would literally be fucked, neither the software nor the hardware that I work with on a daily basis is working with Win 10.

    /rant

    I don't suppose I'l find anyone with a solution here, but felt the need to blow steam over this steaming pile of shit backwards compatibility.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  2. #2
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Yeah, the whole "free upgrade" is pretty much a gigantic lie on both accounts. I'm really glad I didn't upgrade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
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  3. #3
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    I've read that a lot of people are experiencing issues with Digital sound from Windows 10, and that a recent update or patch fixed it. Discovered this info while looking to how to install unlocked Realtek DDL and DTS. BTW, that's a thing and it works.

    Did you try installing Universal Control v1.7.4? That should put the driver in. If the driver is missing, then try to manually install it.

    http://www.presonus.com/support/down...Studio-Project

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    I've read that a lot of people are experiencing issues with Digital sound from Windows 10, and that a recent update or patch fixed it. Discovered this info while looking to how to install unlocked Realtek DDL and DTS. BTW, that's a thing and it works.

    Did you try installing Universal Control v1.7.4? That should put the driver in. If the driver is missing, then try to manually install it.

    http://www.presonus.com/support/down...Studio-Project
    Yeah that's the version I'm running at the moment (v1.7.4) different to the version I'm using on Win 7 as that was the original driver I installed years back when I got the interface, 2011/2012 ish. This is what it says in the Info under "OHCI Info" - An info tab that isn't present on the old version of Universal Control with Win 7.

    OS: Microsoft Windows Version Unknown (6.2.9200) - Looking for OHCI 1394 Host Controllers.... Done.
    Edit : I installed a Legacy driver/Universal Control and now it works, thank fuck for that.. Honestly if you had not replied my frustration might have had me glaze over the fact that old drivers may fix it. Cubase 5 still not supported though, so while it works "sort of" it's very unstable and not fully working, Cubase 8.5 is £360.

    I have Win 7 on dual boot for now, so that's not a big deal.. Was the sound interface pissing me off.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-05-19 at 02:18 AM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  5. #5
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Windows 10 didn't evolve as much as I hoped it to. I did a fresh install of Windows 10 for the first time, to find that it had a lot of the same issues as previous Windows. For some reason, the installer ran super slow with AHCI on. This is on a AMD 6800K with A88X chipset motherboard. BTW, this CPU surprises me with its performance, especially the graphics. Anyway, I had to switch it to IDE Mode cause it took 30 minutes just to get the installer started with AHCI. I thought I could just switch it back to AHCI after the installation is done, but Windows 10 refuses to boot cause the AHCI driver isn't installed. The trick is to boot into safe mode with AHCI on, but that boot took 30 minutes on a SSD. The machine is staying in IDE Mode.

    This is a similar issue I ran into with Windows 7 as well, except I was able to get AHCI working. In Linux, I can freely switch IDE to AHCI without issue, and no slow installation or boot with AHCI on. WTF Microsoft?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Windows 10 didn't evolve as much as I hoped it to. I did a fresh install of Windows 10 for the first time, to find that it had a lot of the same issues as previous Windows. For some reason, the installer ran super slow with AHCI on. This is on a AMD 6800K with A88X chipset motherboard. BTW, this CPU surprises me with its performance, especially the graphics. Anyway, I had to switch it to IDE Mode cause it took 30 minutes just to get the installer started with AHCI. I thought I could just switch it back to AHCI after the installation is done, but Windows 10 refuses to boot cause the AHCI driver isn't installed. The trick is to boot into safe mode with AHCI on, but that boot took 30 minutes on a SSD. The machine is staying in IDE Mode.

    This is a similar issue I ran into with Windows 7 as well, except I was able to get AHCI working. In Linux, I can freely switch IDE to AHCI without issue, and no slow installation or boot with AHCI on. WTF Microsoft?
    My buddy had Win 10 randomly brick his computer on him last week, it lost the boot sector. Now the only way he can get the computer to boot is via a flash drive because it refuses to write a new boot sector to the hard drive, yet his hard drive is fine and once booted via the flash drive his computer runs flawlessly. I don't even know where to begin with that kind of issue because I've never even heard of it happening before.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    My buddy had Win 10 randomly brick his computer on him last week, it lost the boot sector. Now the only way he can get the computer to boot is via a flash drive because it refuses to write a new boot sector to the hard drive, yet his hard drive is fine and once booted via the flash drive his computer runs flawlessly. I don't even know where to begin with that kind of issue because I've never even heard of it happening before.
    And we know Windows 10 caused this............how?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    And we know Windows 10 caused this............how?
    We don't, maybe it was aliens. It's not my computer so what do you expect me to tell you? That I've done an in depth diagnostic of the problem on someone elses computer? He told me what happened, he spent a day trying to fix the problem, I had no part in any of it.. It's up to you to choose how you take it, not expect some answer from me to justify what I say with some proof.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-05-19 at 01:38 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    We don't, maybe it was aliens. It's not my computer so what do you expect me to tell you? That I've done an in depth diagnostic of the problem on someone elses computer? He told me what happened, he spent a day trying to fix the problem, I had no part in any of it.. It's up to you to choose how you take it, not expect some answer from me to justify what I say with some proof.
    Boot sectors go out, it happens. That doesn't mean W10 did it, it just happened to happen while W10 was installed. Did he install any other programs shortly before it happened? Why would you blame W10 and not them? It really sounds more like simple hardware failure, nothing to do with ANY software at all, including W10. What do we expect you to tell us? Well, I don't really know what we expect you to say, but I can say we do not expect people to blame hardware malfunctions on software.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Yeah, the whole "free upgrade" is pretty much a gigantic lie on both accounts. I'm really glad I didn't upgrade.
    lolwat

    08/15 "I'm so bad with PCs I have to blame M$ for my faults!" thread.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Karon View Post
    lolwat

    08/15 "I'm so bad with PCs I have to blame M$ for my faults!" thread.
    It doesn't matter whos fault it is, if drivers don't exist or programs are no longer supported for Win 10 then it's pretty shitty that if you don't actively stop Windows it will schedule and go ahead with an upgrade all by itself. I fixed one of my issues by using old drivers instead of the recommended and supplied Win 10 driver, the other issue I have is fixed for the price of £360.

    As for the Win 10 deleting its own boot sector, I had something similar happen to me with Win 7 once a few years ago and it was 100% Windows glitch corrupting a file required to boot, it was fixed with Win 7 install CD.. A problem that bricked my computer and was fixed within 1minute of putting the CD in. My buddies PC has essentially done something similar, only it requires a flash drive boot every time.. Outside of Win 10 it will boot fine.

    You know when you're using your PC in a normal fashion, turn it off and it won't turn back on again without a Microsoft based boot fix (Eg Install CD) then who do you blame? Blizzard entertainment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Boot sectors go out, it happens. That doesn't mean W10 did it, it just happened to happen while W10 was installed. Did he install any other programs shortly before it happened? Why would you blame W10 and not them? It really sounds more like simple hardware failure, nothing to do with ANY software at all, including W10. What do we expect you to tell us? Well, I don't really know what we expect you to say, but I can say we do not expect people to blame hardware malfunctions on software.
    You're blaming hardware malfunctions on hardware that was stated to be working fine, corrupted files are very much often a symptom of software so why blame the hardware when you have no information that points to that? And you're asking me information I can't tell you, as if I would be having an in depth conversation on every aspect of this guys faulty system and his efforts to fix it, come on down to the real world here.

    I had a summary, I used it in passing comment as a Win 10 related issue.. What are you trying to make of this? You're trying to turn a second hand short story into a novel with a scientific conclusion. My buddy probably came to his conclusions by himself, I didn't go through that process so I can't tell you and it's silly of you to expect that from the discussion.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-05-19 at 02:40 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  12. #12
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karon View Post
    lolwat

    08/15 "I'm so bad with PCs I have to blame M$ for my faults!" thread.
    No, I blame MS for their shitty OS being shitty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    You're blaming hardware malfunctions on hardware that was stated to be working fine, corrupted files are very much often a symptom of software so why blame the hardware when you have no information that points to that? And you're asking me information I can't tell you, as if I would be having an in depth conversation on every aspect of this guys faulty system and his efforts to fix it, come on down to the real world here.

    I had a summary, I used it in passing comment as a Win 10 related issue.. What are you trying to make of this? You're trying to turn a second hand short story into a novel with a scientific conclusion. My buddy probably came to his conclusions by himself, I didn't go through that process so I can't tell you and it's silly of you to expect that from the discussion.
    We don't know who/what to blame at this point. But your post started off "My buddy had Win 10 randomly brick his computer on him last week".

    I could spin this around and say you are blaming windows 10 with no information pointing to that direction either. As far as your far fetched story about Windows 7 deleting its own boot sector that is both highly unlikely and can't be proven. Slapping your Windows 7 disk in to fix it does not mean Windows 7 did this to itself. I'd love to know how you determined it was 100% Windows 7's fault.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Artorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    No, I blame MS for their shitty OS being shitty.
    You don't need to use Windows.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    We don't know who/what to blame at this point. But your post started off "My buddy had Win 10 randomly brick his computer on him last week".

    I could spin this around and say you are blaming windows 10 with no information pointing to that direction either. As far as your far fetched story about Windows 7 deleting its own boot sector that is both highly unlikely and can't be proven. Slapping your Windows 7 disk in to fix it does not mean Windows 7 did this to itself. I'd love to know how you determined it was 100% Windows 7's fault.
    And I could spin this around and say you're equally likely to be clueless on the matter yourself and are effectively trolling by assuming some unearned position of knowledge without qualifying yourself. But sure, I'd love to hear your explanation as to why you think this didn't happen to be honest, and also why you feel your opinion/view is valid on the subject.

    Of course you're trolling at this point, but sure I'l go back to 2011 and ask myself why I'd determined that Windows was the cause when it corrupted it's own boot sector. Can I prove it? Of course I can't and you'd have to be fucking stupid to expect that given the context. If the hardware is faultless, if new software/drivers and possible related issues are ruled out (which they were) and if the issue is isolated (which it was) then it's pretty easy to pinpoint a likely culprit, Win 7 files got corrupted. There is no outside source to cause the issue, only Windows had/has access to those files and it was not a hardware issue.

    And about my buddy? What reason do I have to doubt it? Sometimes in life you take what someone says with confidence, things don't always need evidence and proof, if you choose not to believe them then do that and leave it at that. In any case, software based failure and file corruption happens and has always happened, to get so defensive around the subject like you have is just sad.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-05-20 at 04:30 AM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  16. #16
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artorius View Post
    You don't need to use Windows.
    If only that were true.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    And I could spin this around and say you're equally likely to be clueless on the matter yourself and are effectively trolling by assuming some unearned position of knowledge without qualifying yourself. But sure, I'd love to hear your explanation as to why you think this didn't happen to be honest, and also why you feel your opinion/view is valid on the subject.

    Of course you're trolling at this point, but sure I'l go back to 2011 and ask myself why I'd determined that Windows was the cause when it corrupted it's own boot sector. Can I prove it? Of course I can't and you'd have to be fucking stupid to expect that given the context. If the hardware is faultless, if new software/drivers and possible related issues are ruled out (which they were) and if the issue is isolated (which it was) then it's pretty easy to pinpoint a likely culprit, Win 7 files got corrupted. There is no outside source to cause the issue, only Windows had/has access to those files and it was not a hardware issue.

    And about my buddy? What reason do I have to doubt it? Sometimes in life you take what someone says with confidence, things don't always need evidence and proof, if you choose not to believe them then do that and leave it at that. In any case, software based failure and file corruption happens and has always happened, to get so defensive around the subject like you have is just sad.
    So there is zero chance it was any type of virus? That's typically the only thing that corrupts a boots sector. It can occasionally happen during an OS install, but then you would just never really complete the install. Any program has a chance or corrupted data during install though, because of decompression, errors happen sometimes. Windows is larger and more complex than most things you install, so it has a higher chance of corruption during install, but I have not seen this happen personally. So really that leave virus as the most likely reason.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    So there is zero chance it was any type of virus? That's typically the only thing that corrupts a boots sector. It can occasionally happen during an OS install, but then you would just never really complete the install. Any program has a chance or corrupted data during install though, because of decompression, errors happen sometimes. Windows is larger and more complex than most things you install, so it has a higher chance of corruption during install, but I have not seen this happen personally. So really that leave virus as the most likely reason.
    Like I said, if we're discussing something that happened years ago I'm not sure what you want me to tell you, I've never had issues with viruses since moving to Win 7 when I built this system back in 2011, I've kept my computer pretty well secured in that aspect and the same is true today, never had an issue. The system had been running for a few months before the boot got corrupted so an install issue? Not likely but possible, who knows, since fixing the boot sector it has not had an issue since.

    It's a silly thing to discuss at this point because no aspect here can either be confirmed or denied, nothing can be proved.. We're talking about something from years in the past, I cannot be 100% sure of anything due to that, it was not something that I heavily analysed because why would I? I came up with the conclusion that the likely cause was the operating system having a fart, I could be absolutely wrong or I could be right and there's just no way to know, so it's not really worth exploring it.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-05-20 at 01:50 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Like I said, if we're discussing something that happened years ago I'm not sure what you want me to tell you, I've never had issues with viruses since moving to Win 7 when I built this system back in 2011, I've kept my computer pretty well secured in that aspect and the same is true today, never had an issue. The system had been running for a few months before the boot got corrupted so an install issue? Not likely but possible, who knows, since fixing the boot sector it has not had an issue since.

    It's a silly thing to discuss at this point because no aspect here can either be confirmed or denied, nothing can be proved.. We're talking about something from years in the past, I cannot be 100% sure of anything due to that, it was not something that I heavily analysed because why would I? I came up with the conclusion that the likely cause was the operating system having a fart, I could be absolutely wrong or I could be right and there's just no way to know, so it's not really worth exploring it.
    Exactly. If you did know anything, you would know that it is VERY VERY unlikely that it was caused by Windows. So blaming it on Windows, when you have no proof of such an unlikely claim and then lashing out at people telling you that it was probably something else just makes you look bad. It's not very likely at all that this was Windows fault, yet you insist it is while clearly stating you have no way of knowing if that is the case or not.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Exactly. If you did know anything, you would know that it is VERY VERY unlikely that it was caused by Windows. So blaming it on Windows, when you have no proof of such an unlikely claim and then lashing out at people telling you that it was probably something else just makes you look bad. It's not very likely at all that this was Windows fault, yet you insist it is while clearly stating you have no way of knowing if that is the case or not.
    But you dont understand that this is an operating system based problem, with no outside influencing factors and no hardware issues.. Why would you assume anything other than the likely cause being the operating system? Of course I could be absolutely wrong, it doesn't mean that the operating system is not the likely cause.

    At no point here has anyone actually made any valid point that points to it "not" being the operating system, unless you are trying to claim that it's not possible, which would be hilarious "if you did know anything". Very Very unlikely I'm afraid is absolutely useless, very very unlikely is still a possibility and by berating someone over your opinion of "very unlikely" situations happening you're just making yourself look bad.

    It's the typical internet forum "expert" thing, something unlikely happens and you attack a person demanding proof as if someone is claiming an impossibility, and all that without yourself having qualified the point of view or providing anything of substance to back or support it. It's simply a situation of "that is unlikely so I don't believe you unless you prove it" and it can't be proved so why go that route of discussion? Either accept that you find it unlikely and choose not to believe it and move on, or accept it and move on.

    I've been building PC's for about 20 years, and the amount of shit that you have to deal with on the software and drivers side is ridiculous, the amount of weird stupid things that happen is on a daily, and then you have guys like you who come across like you believe this software (in this case Win 7/10) to be iron-clad, and yet on a daily we have updates for glitches, bugs, security.. It's really not as unlikely as you think.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

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