[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[deviantcultist]

Did they really remove the tentacles in Voidform? If that's intended, dunno, I'm shocked. As trivial as it may sound, if that comes to pass, my hype will be wrecked.

[Aeriel]

Would sure appriciate them working on talents tho - having so many dead talents is not gonna make for a fun experience in Legion. And I would love a proper AoE rotation aswell as shadow crash not being useless. I've had it with mind sear, but getting rid of that as the core AoE-attack (through talents that is) is obviously not feasable anymore.

Admittedly, our "dead talents" really only need tweaks rather than reworks.

Tier 1: the problem isn't SWV or FotM, but that they compete with ToF. FotM has potential, if it was not so outclassed. SWV still has PvP use.
Tier 2: Ok. Mania is probably DoA. It might be useful leveling, but Masochism will still win.
Tier 3: The Mind Bomb nerf... Need we say more. This is a CC tier, so was always weaker in PvE like every spec's.
Tier 4: Void Ray. No interaction with MSp, and a short duration leading to fewer and fewer stacks over time. Fewer stacks for equal benefit or longer duration would help a lot.
Tier 5: All have some use. San'Layn is boring, but strictly passive.
Tier 6: PI, weak, but there are talent combinations that benefits it (VTor centric). SC is weak, and just needs a buff. However, the talent change weakens how often you will talent swap to where it is useful anyways.
Tier 7: LotV and MSp: marginal dps increase. Each needs a buff to be comparable to StM.

[Kretan]

Yeah if void torrent is interurptable, then I just can't see how shadow priests would be viable in 3s. So many times the kick protection on it has given me a point of strength against melee.... But without it they can now kick our one offensive cd. Really poor change. I guess we just completely joined the ranks of the truly shit vs melee caster clubs. If you really want to pvp in legion, you need to roll melee.

- - - Updated - - -

How can Mind Bomb still replace psychic scream. I was foolish to believe in blizzard.

At 2 seconds I agree I don't think it should he replacing psychic scream. That's just too weak to replace it.

[l33t]

Admittedly, our "dead talents" really only need tweaks rather than reworks.

Tier 1: the problem isn't SWV or FotM, but that they compete with ToF. FotM has potential, if it was not so outclassed. SWV still has PvP use.
Tier 2: Ok. Mania is probably DoA. It might be useful leveling, but Masochism will still win.
Tier 3: The Mind Bomb nerf... Need we say more. This is a CC tier, so was always weaker in PvE like every spec's.
Tier 4: Void Ray. No interaction with MSp, and a short duration leading to fewer and fewer stacks over time. Fewer stacks for equal benefit or longer duration would help a lot.
Tier 5: All have some use. San'Layn is boring, but strictly passive.
Tier 6: PI, weak, but there are talent combinations that benefits it (VTor centric). SC is weak, and just needs a buff. However, the talent change weakens how often you will talent swap to where it is useful anyways.
Tier 7: LotV and MSp: marginal dps increase. Each needs a buff to be comparable to StM.

Wanna add a little:

First tier: everything is fine except for ToF, which is imbalanced over years. Solution is easy: make ToF baseline, finally, and move mindbender here from t6. I'd love SWV replacing blast though.
Second tier: replace masochism with shadow feathers; then give feathers a 40% movement increase and buff B&S to 60% movement increase but limit it to be self buff; as a result we have: up to 20% passive increase, tactical 40% increase for group use and personal 60% short sprint. Choices mon.
Third tier: replace Psychic voice with Psychic Horror, because face it, we really really really really really need PH. Like, really really really really.
Fourth tier: Void ray with less stacks with longer duration would suffice. Interaction with MSpikes as well, of course.
Fifth tier: is fine. Boring, uninspired, passive shit, but fine.
Sixth tier: something should be done with shadow crash. Either it should spread SWPain, or its damage should be buffed like a lot and it should replace mind sear... something. Also, instead of Mind bender which moved to t1, I'd love to have a talent which allows us to cleave second target with our blasts and void bolts. So, a choice between burst, cleave and aoe.
Seventh tier, finally: spike should be replaced by current CoP, of course. That's like no-brainer. Yeah, with instant Blast with reduced CD, but without "less damage on target with dots" part - or maybe even with it? Its damage should be balanced accordingly. Something should be done with LotV though.

Do I believe talent rebalancing happens though? Nope, I bet my razor mouse that Blizzard would just leave it like it is, with half of talents being DoA. Still, with new talent change system it could be not that bad, actually

[Aeriel]

I made a post awhile back where i placed LotV on the first row to have a theme of entering VF. Lower threshold vs over time generation vs on demand generation.

Then put ToF where RoS is. Move RoS to SC. SC (buffed) to LotV. However, that was before the talent change, and I cannot see SC working versus cleave talents any more.

[Kretan]

Honestly, the fact that void torrent is kickable is another nerf to shadow priest survivability. Shadow priest having a near guaranteed big heal through void torrent + void shield + vamp embrace even was a big deal.

[Ilir]

Did they really remove the tentacles in Voidform? If that's intended, dunno, I'm shocked. As trivial as it may sound, if that comes to pass, my hype will be wrecked.

When you enter VF now : no tentacles. The first 2 (small tentacles on the shoulders) appear aroung 15-20 stacks... and then you get another set of tiny tentacles on each hand... and that's basically it.

Before you had 2 tentacles as soon as you popped VF.

[RsinRC]

I find Spriests in PVP to be too technical of a spec. You gotta watch for too many variants more so than any other class I've played. I hope new players stick around because Void Form is the only true "cool" part of Spriests while everything else is either too clunky or make no sense.

Self healing is so strong that I can see why many of our weaknesses revolve around it. If we don't understand that balance (ie our survivability) the spec is too weak.

Once we do understand it we have to balance and learn the Insanity aspect of our class. SWV will be the remedy by letting us go in VF on demand so it won't be too bad but Insanity is still there to master.

We also need to watch the enemy teams buff's and our debuffs with our dispels.

And lastly having to heal ourselves and our team mates with limited mana.

All of this with the same cookie cutter spec from day one with hardly any useful talents to choose from.

As a Spriest veteran I am able to understand its similar to WoD's Spriest and can play it with relative success but seeing the spec as a whole I'm not too sure if it's ultimately attractive. It's like they took WoD's Spriest and stretched it's strengths and weaknesses to the extreme.

In PVE, however, the class performs beautifully and for aoe, I like being able to stay on and dps meatier targets than having to switch to little adds that pop up.

[Ilir]

Well they're nerfing Voidform "cool" factor every patch now. It's just a purple shadowform with a little aura. yay

[Aeriel]

While I was never a huge fan of the mass of tentacles, I think that they should have had a glyph to remove them rather than downplay baseline. There are so many cosmetic options that they could give to VF via Tomes, but they are, as typical for the developers currently, going for the path of least resistance. Give in tothe vocal minority rather than give real options. At least they stood by StM until people gave it a chance.

[Ilir]

While I was never a huge fan of the mass of tentacles, I think that they should have had a glyph to remove them rather than downplay baseline. There are so many cosmetic options that they could give to VF via Tomes, but they are, as typical for the developers currently, going for the path of least resistance. Give in tothe vocal minority rather than give real options. At least they stood by StM until people gave it a chance.

Yeah. I totally understand not liking the tentacles. But removing them (nearly) altogether without a glyph seems pretty brutal to me. Not to mention we have like 0 glyph in legion. I really hope they add more and more but with the shadowforms glyph being tied to Voidform... I fear the worse.

[Seriv]

It snapshots your haste. I don't know if it snapshots Spellpower or Crit buffs.

Did they change that? It used to not snapshot your haste, see https://youtu.be/7FHiSA0B-s4?t=111

[Djriff]

Well if it didn't snapshot haste I'd be surprised. I know currently on live that channeled spells like Mind Flay or Drain Soul snapshot your haste at the second you cast, but if you recast with the haste buff gone, it's just normal.

Also won my own beta key so can finally test and post from my own account. woot woot.

[Kretan]

I find Spriests in PVP to be too technical of a spec. You gotta watch for too many variants more so than any other class I've played. I hope new players stick around because Void Form is the only true "cool" part of Spriests while everything else is either too clunky or make no sense.

Self healing is so strong that I can see why many of our weaknesses revolve around it. If we don't understand that balance (ie our survivability) the spec is too weak.

Once we do understand it we have to balance and learn the Insanity aspect of our class. SWV will be the remedy by letting us go in VF on demand so it won't be too bad but Insanity is still there to master.

We also need to watch the enemy teams buff's and our debuffs with our dispels.

And lastly having to heal ourselves and our team mates with limited mana.

All of this with the same cookie cutter spec from day one with hardly any useful talents to choose from.

As a Spriest veteran I am able to understand its similar to WoD's Spriest and can play it with relative success but seeing the spec as a whole I'm not too sure if it's ultimately attractive. It's like they took WoD's Spriest and stretched it's strengths and weaknesses to the extreme.

In PVE, however, the class performs beautifully and for aoe, I like being able to stay on and dps meatier targets than having to switch to little adds that pop up.

This spec is going to be brutal for new players in pvp. Heck it'll be hard for experienced shadow priests...brutal might be an understatement...more like unplayable for new players.

[Tanned]

Did they change that? It used to not snapshot your haste, see https://youtu.be/7FHiSA0B-s4?t=111

EDIT: Void Torrent does not Snapshot Haste. It acts like a DoT you are channeling!

[RsinRC]

This spec is going to be brutal for new players in pvp. Heck it'll be hard for experienced shadow priests...brutal might be an understatement...more like unplayable for new players.

Yea thats what I'm afraid of. Shadow priests aren't super popular because we are a bit cumbersome to begin with and with Legion, in pvp at least, we'll be even more under represented. I'm not sure if thats a good or bad thing. Personally I kinda like it because PvP shadow priests will be rare and I want to be among the top but for the game's interest I think it isn't something that will attract more players.

[Theed]

Having to work 1000x harder to win a game than most specs is frustrating and unrewarding and needs to be fixed.

[Djriff]

So I'm curious to everyone that plays another toon other than just shadow. What will be your main alt (or new main) in legion and why. I was thinking about hunter myself, but after reading up on MM, it's like they got all the weakness we had with our class trinket, so I'd rather avoid that. Lock looks fun, as does mage.

Having to work 1000x harder to win a game than most specs is frustrating and unrewarding and needs to be fixed.

It's been that way for awhile now. It's silly that currently I can play my feral druid or frost DK and just wreck faces. Yet my shadow priest feels like a wet tissue paper both offensively and defensively.

[Theed]

So I'm curious to everyone that plays another toon other than just shadow. What will be your main alt (or new main) in legion and why. I was thinking about hunter myself, but after reading up on MM, it's like they got all the weakness we had with our class trinket, so I'd rather avoid that. Lock looks fun, as does mage.

For me there is nothing else. I will play some DH and level either lock, rogue or ww but not for serious pvp.

[Chantique]

So I'm curious to everyone that plays another toon other than just shadow. What will be your main alt (or new main) in legion and why. I was thinking about hunter myself, but after reading up on MM, it's like they got all the weakness we had with our class trinket, so I'd rather avoid that. Lock looks fun, as does mage.



It's been that way for awhile now. It's silly that currently I can play my feral druid or frost DK and just wreck faces. Yet my shadow priest feels like a wet tissue paper both offensively and defensively.

Had a chance to play shadow and demo lock in my friends house. Shadow looks great for pve, but if pvp stays the same on release as it is now, shadow will become my alt. Just tired to always be the priority target.

Now, demo lock i had a ton of fun with it. I can go around pulling 8 mobs without a sweat, despite the damage being a bit undertuned right now. If they tune demo properly it will have good aoe, cleave and ST on top of being the most tanky caster. At least thats my impression.

And implosion omg! so much fun blowing your pets on the enemy!