Fun Detected, Fun Nerfed

[Olrox]

Shit cracks me up, some of you guys are just frothing.

"Be happy it's coming at all!"

Right. Be grateful that a feature other games have that makes the archaic one this game has better is something to be grateful for, since you know, Blizzard is doing it for free out of the goodness of their collective hearts.

Wrong.

They're charging you for it, and you deserve something that's actually worth the money.

I find it utterly reprehensible that this system isn't just a nice carbon-copy of Diablo III's. Just because you found that long-lost, ever-evasive cloth piece on your plate guy doesn't mean you should just forfeit unlocking the appearance. That's dumb, and there's not a single good reason to do it that way aside from the classic Blizzard "carrot on a stick" that so many of you just love to chase.

No one is going to try to unlock everything on one character - why would anyone who only plays one character WANT all of those transmogs? They wouldn't.

People who play several different characters or at least two different armor types are having a little trouble seeing a good reason for unlocks to be restricted. So I'm going to farm tier lookalike armor on my warrior, paladin, and rogue every week - why the fuck should it matter if I found 24 pieces of it across my three guys, but it wasn't ALL plate on the plate guys and all leather pieces on my rogue? That's just silly, and it's a pointless obstacle - the primary reason for which is again, longevity, Blizzard have hardly strayed from acknowledging that the hunt for transmog gear is something they rely on in terms of giving people a reason to play.

That's a bad reason. Transmog's purpose is not to give you this dopey item hunt to go on, it's primary purpose (y'know, that thing it actually does) is to let you change your appearance - because frankly this isn't WarCraft III and we're not all the same. You and I aren't footmen, and we're not hero units who all look the same - we're individuals and we have our own tastes.

So what annoys me is that Blizzard always wants to make it needlessly complicated and restrictive - the Diablo 3 system is fine - the big limit it has of course, is that class-specific sets need to be unlocked by that class - that's fine, and in WoW, that's also fine.

So in short:

Restrictions for Tier/Class-specific items = Good
Restrictions based on "primary" armor type = Bad

I wish they'd actually listen a bit, and while I think everyone knows that they're want to really get mileage out of the ol' carrot, I think it's being overdone a good bit here.

[Raelbo]

I wish they'd actually listen a bit, and while I think everyone knows that they're want to really get mileage out of the ol' carrot, I think it's being overdone a good bit here.

Who says they aren't listening? People make this mistake in assuming that if their suggestions aren't followed they haven't been heard. What you're really saying is that you want them to listen to you more than other people. We all want that. It's not a reasonable demand though.

[Cæli]

So, do something multiple times on 1 toon for xmog is not redundant, yet do something multiple times for the same armor type is? This is kind of a double standard, and makes it convenient that any armor type is shared for alts for that armor type.
The Zelda reference doesn't apply. It almost applies with the current style. Hunter wants xmog X, Shaman on same account wants xmog X, run multiple times for both who knows how many times. New style, same applies, but shared on toons of same armor.

No doing something multiple time on 1 toon for xmog is not redundant because you can't do a quest more than 1 time, and other sources are either grind or rng which I don't categorize as redundant.
Yes doing the same quest on alts to complete a collection is redundant.

So far and since 10+ years, it has not been require to do the exact same thing on an alt to progress a collection. I see no reason why it should be so suddenly in Legion. When you get a pet, toy, tabard, whatever, you don't need to do a massive amount of a same content multiple time. You get it you learn it. With the wardrobe as far as I understood you need to do the same quests up to 8 times, multiply that by the number of quests. I'm sorry this is redundant and no one can find this smart or fun or beneficial to Blizzard economy, else he should explain me how it is. I'm all far grindy stuff, long stuff to grind on your main character, or main game file, but doing the exact same quests up to 8 times on alts to progress your main collection ? Questionable design sorry.

No one is going to try to unlock everything on one character - why would anyone who only plays one character WANT all of those transmogs? They wouldn't.

Of course they would want. I will collect. Other will do. This is the whole point and the problem. They called it a collection system. It's in the collection tab. I'm a collector. So are others. If they don't want us to collect it all then don't call it a collection system.

[Raelbo]

Right. Be grateful that a feature other games have that makes the archaic one this game has better is something to be grateful for, since you know, Blizzard is doing it for free out of the goodness of their collective hearts.

Nice strawman btw

[Deleted]

xD. really complaining about that one. well, go ahead, little one.

though Im afraid blizzard will listen again to such nonsense. Everytime a so called "majority" cries loud enough for bullshit, they try to satisfy them, and of course its them who cry over their own demanded features.

[Gilian]

Firstly, if you could shrink that quote, it'd be great. And secondly, it's because you need to do it once for each armor class (four times) and then again for the other faction (another four).

Why do you have to do that? It's your choice that you want it on every single character that you have so do the work. This is simply "I want it all for doing nothing".

People start playing alts because they want more to do, then complain they have to do more and after nerfs they complain they don't have anything to do. Everyone who is playing 1, 2 or maybe 3 characters total have everything done in a few days because others want to play 1 hour a week and have everything. Game becomes boring, people quit.

You know what is fun? Playing with friends and killing huge dragons. Not grinding your alts over and over or skipping content to get cosmetic items.

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Of course they would want. I will collect. Other will do. This is the whole point and the problem. They called it a collection system. It's in the collection tab. I'm a collector. So are others. If they don't want us to collect it all then don't call it a collection system.

You can collect without having everything.

[Raelbo]

So far and since 10+ years, it has not been require to do the exact same thing on an alt to progress a collection.

Actually there has. Challenge modes and top end PvP stuff reward character specific cosmetic rewards including mounts which are part of a collection. Just saying.

I see no reason why it should be so suddenly in Legion. When you get a pet, toy, tabard, whatever, you don't need to do a massive amount of a same content multiple time.

Transmog is about gear. How many times do you have to run a raid to complete your gear set? Also, if you're just looking at collections, a lot of stuff requires repeatedly doing the same thing until RNG smiles upon you. Of course you have to do a massive amount of the same content multiple times. That's kinda the point of MMO's

With the wardrobe as far as I understood you need to do the same quests up to 8 times, multiply that by the number of quests.

I expect that a proper analysis will show this to be false. Yes, quests can reward up to 4 different types of armour/weapons. Yes, it is possible for alliance and horde versions to be different. But not every quest reward has a unique look, not every quest reward has different alliance/horde versions and not every quest offers 4 different transmog items. In theory it is possible that a quest might need to be done 8 times. In practice I expect very few, if any even, would.

So this whole argument that we need to do Loremaster 8 times is just plain BS. Sure, some quests you'll be doing a few times, but the vast majority not.

I'm sorry this is redundant and no one can find this smart or fun or beneficial to Blizzard economy, else he should explain me how it is. I'm all far grindy stuff, long stuff to grind on your main character, or main game file, but doing the exact same quests up to 8 times on alts to progress your main collection ? Questionable design sorry.

Who exactly is using the stuff? Yes it's a collection, but the primary intent of transmog was to customise your character look. If you have alts then you end up repeating quests anyway. If you don't have alts and you're rolling alts just to get transmog items to use on those alts.....

Yes I get it, you aren't having fun because you feel compelled to complete your collection and now everyone else with some sense of self control who is going to love this feature because it will help them do what they find fun: ie go out and find transmog sets for their character, have to suffer because of your compulsion. Nice.

PS: Try and remember that the primary reason for this system is to enhance the existing transmog feature by making it more manageable and specifically to address the issue of storage space constraints. The fact that it is a collection should not detract from this purpose.

[Olrox]

Who says they aren't listening? People make this mistake in assuming that if their suggestions aren't followed they haven't been heard. What you're really saying is that you want them to listen to you more than other people. We all want that. It's not a reasonable demand though.

I think there are enough people rejecting this particular iteration of the transmog system to show that more than silent acknowledgement is necessary here.

The Diablo system is excellent, has some restrictions, and could've been the model for this one - but it wasn't, and again, most likely due to the aforementioned carrot on a stick idea.

Nice strawman btw

Nice inability to just do a multi-quote, btw.

For two, you didn't even address (or much less read) the rest of it.

But hey, I can see you've spent some time on everyone's friend https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Oh and let me guess, your witty retort is going to be something about how I haven't done that too.

Good one.

Doesn't change the fact that people in this very thread saying other should be "grateful" that Blizzard is adding the wardrobe system is foolish. It isn't some bonus they're giving out of generosity - it's a feature MANY players asked about and Blizzard sought to "deliver" on, but with many restrictions that are hardly useful for anything other than drawing more playtime out of players, though again, Blizzard have indeed acknowledged that transmog gear hunting is something they support as a reason to log in - though it was written in the context of soloing old raids, if I recall. Legion does indeed cost money, though you won't necessarily need to own it to use that system, it's still part of the package of features that paid expansion brings to the game.

Again, that goes against the primary purpose of the system - not to find things, but to change your appearance. Restrictions on that are fine, when they make sense - Can't just run around unlocking tier sets you can't even wear unless you're finding off-set pieces, which is fair game, as there isn't always an off-set piece for a certain set and slot, so I think that's fine, assuming you're ok with only unlocking that set with off pieces to expedite having the full set's appearance available on your character whose class it is, since you won't be able to use that final piece that is only a tier item.

[l33t]

Where did you get this from? Afaik the stats on the gear make no difference it's just the armour type that counts.

If that's really true, then I have absolutely no problems with it. But, as far as I've understood, you can unlock a skin of a weapon if your class can equip that weapon, and a skin of an armor if it has your character's main stat on it. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

[Lei]

I just hope they don't raise the limit for the Fabulous title. Legion Wardrobe addon says I have more than 100 from everything in my wardrobe, so at least the achieve will be insta-done. Well, insta, after I go out and buy some shirts and tabards One does not have enough bagspace this close to Legion to hoard shirts and tabards.

[Dhrizzle]

I think the solution would be making it so each character only unlocks skins for themselves, that way people wouldn't have to complain about not getting every single quest reward unlocked.

Or they could scrap the idea of getting quest rewards retroactively, if you want items from an old quest then you should have kept them.

[l33t]

Or they could scrap the idea of getting quest rewards retroactively, if you want items from an old quest then you should have kept them.

Yeah sure, god forbid Blizzard devs have to do their job, I agree

[Cæli]

Actually there has. Challenge modes and top end PvP stuff reward character specific cosmetic rewards including mounts which are part of a collection. Just saying.

Don't agree with that. They are not account wide. In a video game, a collection is contained in your main game file. You only have 1 collection by different game.
We should define what a game file is.To me it's pretty clear a game file was your main character until the account wide systems (mop). Since they implemented it, the game file became your Bnet account+your main character, since your main character is now tied to your bnet account, it's the same entity now. Character specific mount are not account wide so they have nothing to do with your main character and your bnet account. Pretty interesting thoughts though.

Transmog is about gear. How many times do you have to run a raid to complete your gear set? Also, if you're just looking at collections, a lot of stuff requires repeatedly doing the same thing until RNG smiles upon you. Of course you have to do a massive amount of the same content multiple times. That's kinda the point of MMO's

Unlocking an appearance for a collection is different than transmog itself or even using the gear. I can understand the logic here but when a collection is involved, the creators should expect some players to be willing to complete it, and I think it's economically smarter and just plain better to balance accordingly. Of course it should take years. But there's a difference between insanely long and grindy content (hardcore level 5) and the design anomaly (hardcore level 19) that we got now. Until now, all collections were finely made for collectors. Not the case for the transmog one in my opinion. A few tweaks is enough to balance it.

I expect that a proper analysis will show this to be false. Yes, quests can reward up to 4 different types of armour/weapons. Yes, it is possible for alliance and horde versions to be different. But not every quest reward has a unique look, not every quest reward has different alliance/horde versions and not every quest offers 4 different transmog items. In theory it is possible that a quest might need to be done 8 times. In practice I expect very few, if any even, would.

So this whole argument that we need to do Loremaster 8 times is just plain BS. Sure, some quests you'll be doing a few times, but the vast majority not.

I hope you're right.

You can collect without having everything.

Of course, but when all the collectibles are there and you can get them, ultimately collectors will want everything. Even Blizzard added a progress bar. You can either chose to give up and not feel something particular, or to progress the bar up to 100% and feel great satisfaction. So well the point of having a collection for me is to max it, I can't understand how you could really feel satisfied by giving up (=not having everything that is obtainable), even though I would be interested in understanding.

[RadmaKanow]

Why do you need transmogs for a class you don't want to play? 'Cause I'd assume (perhaps foolishly) that if you care so much about transmog on a certain class, you probably play it enough to farm said transmog on that class. >.>

Maybe because of really bad RNG?

Example:
I have a Paladin and want it to look like Maraad from BC intro. Found which instance/raid drops what and started to farm it. Got entire set EXCEPT boots (Karazhan, Moroes). As it's just 2nd boss and overall dead easy it's no effort at all. It also happens that 1st boss drops a horse, so I farm it on numerous characters.

So I kill Moroes week after week but those damn boots just refuse to drop on my Paladin. I got them 1st run on my Hunter tho. Great, since it's plate item and Hunters can't use plate it's vendor trash (BoP so can't mail despite obtaining it). Overall I saw those boots dropping at least 10 times already but not on my Paladin.

It's really encouraging to know that Blizzard says: so it dropped on different toon that one we want? Well, farm more mate. Time is money, friend.

[Mekh]

Maybe because of really bad RNG?

Example:
I have a Paladin and want it to look like Maraad from BC intro. Found which instance/raid drops what and started to farm it. Got entire set EXCEPT boots (Karazhan, Moroes). As it's just 2nd boss and overall dead easy it's no effort at all. It also happens that 1st boss drops a horse, so I farm it on numerous characters.

So I kill Moroes week after week but those damn boots just refuse to drop on my Paladin. I got them 1st run on my Hunter tho. Great, since it's plate item and Hunters can't use plate it's vendor trash (BoP so can't mail despite obtaining it). Overall I saw those boots dropping at least 10 times already but not on my Paladin.

It's really encouraging to know that Blizzard says: so it dropped on different toon that one we want? Well, farm more mate. Time is money, friend.

What you are missing is the luxurious fact, that in the future, you can go to Karazhan with your Warrior, DK, second Paladin and unlock those boots for your main paladin, regardless of his bad RNG luck. You just can't use your mage or hunter. Still, your chances of quickly completing any set locked behind a raid ID have increased greatly.

[munkeyinorbit]

well that's fucking bullshit.

total jackasses, and if people complain about this enough, they will change it. so you need to make threads about this all over the place and spread the word.

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i can understand that, but changing it so old and removed quest items don't auto unlock? that's bullshit.

Blizzard will not change it. It's not like transmog is even important. It's not like it's flying. Kids need to grow up and stop being entitled. Millennials. Sheesh.

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Maybe because of really bad RNG?

Example:
I have a Paladin and want it to look like Maraad from BC intro. Found which instance/raid drops what and started to farm it. Got entire set EXCEPT boots (Karazhan, Moroes). As it's just 2nd boss and overall dead easy it's no effort at all. It also happens that 1st boss drops a horse, so I farm it on numerous characters.

So I kill Moroes week after week but those damn boots just refuse to drop on my Paladin. I got them 1st run on my Hunter tho. Great, since it's plate item and Hunters can't use plate it's vendor trash (BoP so can't mail despite obtaining it). Overall I saw those boots dropping at least 10 times already but not on my Paladin.

It's really encouraging to know that Blizzard says: so it dropped on different toon that one we want? Well, farm more mate. Time is money, friend.

Don't like it? Not having fun? Quit. It's pretty simple. I just can't believe how entitled this new generation of players are.

[Rumblecrush]

卐 卍 卐 卍 Blizzard did nothing wrong! 卐 卍 卐 卍

[Mhyroth]

What I don't mind, as the rules are now, is the restriction to be able to wear the item/be of your armory/weapon class.
What I do mind is all those quest rewards which have been removed/are unobtainable which we won't unlock. So many missed transmog items and rare skins/colors we won't see.
I see quite some people here state there's not a lot of removed rewards/they're not important. Maybe they're not important for you but they might be for others. Especially those who have been playing for years on end and couldn't keep everything pre-cataclysm. Also a couple of examples have been given of removed quest rewards (with unique skins/color-palets) so don't say we didn't give you examples. The amount of those skins which could've been unlocked that way, nobody knows for certain, but what is certain is that it does annoy quite a lot of people (as what I read on the EU and US forums) regarding Transmog/Wardrobe.
I don't mind doing Loremaster 8x now, but for the removed content, for which we have no way of obtaining the item, it's just silly and is a slap in the face to completionists (of which there are lot more as people think there are).
Also it might even be more as 8x since some Race/Class combo's get different visuals as opposed to others (Blood Elves in Ghostlands comes to mind).
It's just an insane time-consuming grind which will be impossible to fill up, but a nice pass-time for those who are dedicated to do.
A little bit OT but still related to collecting: I kind of 'quit' the Toys tab since the ones I need are TCG ones and World Event items I threw away years ago. Kind of silly they can't revert those since I don't care to do things I've done for years on end all over again.
Long story short: there seem to be a lot of flaws in how collections work in WoW, and some inconsistencies, and that's what's holding a lot of people back from actually completing them.

[SoulSoBreezy]

What I don't mind, as the rules are now, is the restriction to be able to wear the item/be of your armory/weapon class.
What I do mind is all those quest rewards which have been removed/are unobtainable which we won't unlock. So many missed transmog items and rare skins/colors we won't see.
I see quite some people here state there's not a lot of removed rewards/they're not important. Maybe they're not important for you but they might be for others. Especially those who have been playing for years on end and couldn't keep everything pre-cataclysm. Also a couple of examples have been given of removed quest rewards (with unique skins/color-palets) so don't say we didn't gave you examples. The amount of those skins which could've been unlocked that way, nobody knows for certain, but what is certain is that it does annoy quite a lot of people (as what I read on the EU and US forums) regarding Transmog/Wardrobe.
I don't mind doing Loremaster 8x now, but for the removed content, for which we have no way of obtaining the item, it's just silly and is a slap in the face to completionists (of which there are lot more as people think there are).
Also it might even be more as 8x since some Race/Class combo's get different visuals as opposed to others (Blood Elves in Ghostlands comes to mind).
It's just an insane time-consuming grind which will be impossible to fill up, but a nice pass-time for those who are dedicated to do.
A little bit OT but still related to collecting: I kind of 'quit' the Toys tab since the ones I need are TCG ones and World Event items I threw away years ago. Kind of silly they can't revert those since I don't care to do things I've done for years on end all over again.
Long story short: there seem to be a lot of flaws in how collections work in WoW, and some inconsistencies, and that's what's holding a lot of people back from actually completing them.

Do you have a list of these items that are no longer obtainable? If anything that'd be a worthwhile avenue for blizzard to pursue (making these items craftable, for example).

[JemiS]

What I don't mind, as the rules are now, is the restriction to be able to wear the item/be of your armory/weapon class.
What I do mind is all those quest rewards which have been removed/are unobtainable which we won't unlock. So many missed transmog items and rare skins/colors we won't see.
I see quite some people here state there's not a lot of removed rewards/they're not important. Maybe they're not important for you but they might be for others. Especially those who have been playing for years on end and couldn't keep everything pre-cataclysm. Also a couple of examples have been given of removed quest rewards (with unique skins/color-palets) so don't say we didn't gave you examples. The amount of those skins which could've been unlocked that way, nobody knows for certain, but what is certain is that it does annoy quite a lot of people (as what I read on the EU and US forums) regarding Transmog/Wardrobe.
I don't mind doing Loremaster 8x now, but for the removed content, for which we have no way of obtaining the item, it's just silly and is a slap in the face to completionists (of which there are lot more as people think there are).
Also it might even be more as 8x since some Race/Class combo's get different visuals as opposed to others (Blood Elves in Ghostlands comes to mind).
It's just an insane time-consuming grind which will be impossible to fill up, but a nice pass-time for those who are dedicated to do.
A little bit OT but still related to collecting: I kind of 'quit' the Toys tab since the ones I need are TCG ones and World Event items I threw away years ago. Kind of silly they can't revert those since I don't care to do things I've done for years on end all over again.
Long story short: there seem to be a lot of flaws in how collections work in WoW, and some inconsistencies, and that's what's holding a lot of people back from actually completing them.

So somethings stay unique for the people that did them on the appropriate class when the content was more current?

I don't see how that's such a horrible thing. Some of those looks will be rare, the people that will have them were playing that class when they did the content. And that's OK with me.