Win 10 (frustrations!)

[Lathais]

But you dont understand that this is an operating system based problem, with no outside influencing factors and no hardware issues.. Why would you assume anything other than the likely cause being the operating system? Of course I could be absolutely wrong, it doesn't mean that the operating system is not the likely cause.

At no point here has anyone actually made any valid point that points to it "not" being the operating system, unless you are trying to claim that it's not possible, which would be hilarious "if you did know anything". Very Very unlikely I'm afraid is absolutely useless, very very unlikely is still a possibility and by berating someone over your opinion of "very unlikely" situations happening you're just making yourself look bad.

It's the typical internet forum "expert" thing, something unlikely happens and you attack a person demanding proof as if someone is claiming an impossibility, and all that without yourself having qualified the point of view or providing anything of substance to back or support it. It's simply a situation of "that is unlikely so I don't believe you unless you prove it" and it can't be proved so why go that route of discussion? Either accept that you find it unlikely and choose not to believe it and move on, or accept it and move on.

I've been building PC's for about 20 years, and the amount of shit that you have to deal with on the software and drivers side is ridiculous, the amount of weird stupid things that happen is on a daily, and then you have guys like you who come across like you believe this software (in this case Win 7/10) to be iron-clad, and yet on a daily we have updates for glitches, bugs, security.. It's really not as unlikely as you think.

The thing is, all a boot sector is is some things that get loaded into RAM quickly on startup so that Windows can load. It's not something that Windows makes changes to often, it basically just reads it. Boot Sector Viruses on the other hand are a much more common thing.

Not saying Windows is ironclad by any means. However, it would be pretty hard for it to corrupt something that only gets loaded into RAM and read once and then basically ignored. If changes are made to the boot sector, it's much more likely that you or a virus did it than Windows.

[SoulForge]

But you dont understand that this is an operating system based problem, with no outside influencing factors and no hardware issues.. Why would you assume anything other than the likely cause being the operating system? Of course I could be absolutely wrong, it doesn't mean that the operating system is not the likely cause.

At no point here has anyone actually made any valid point that points to it "not" being the operating system, unless you are trying to claim that it's not possible, which would be hilarious "if you did know anything". Very Very unlikely I'm afraid is absolutely useless, very very unlikely is still a possibility and by berating someone over your opinion of "very unlikely" situations happening you're just making yourself look bad.

It's the typical internet forum "expert" thing, something unlikely happens and you attack a person demanding proof as if someone is claiming an impossibility, and all that without yourself having qualified the point of view or providing anything of substance to back or support it. It's simply a situation of "that is unlikely so I don't believe you unless you prove it" and it can't be proved so why go that route of discussion? Either accept that you find it unlikely and choose not to believe it and move on, or accept it and move on.

I've been building PC's for about 20 years, and the amount of shit that you have to deal with on the software and drivers side is ridiculous, the amount of weird stupid things that happen is on a daily, and then you have guys like you who come across like you believe this software (in this case Win 7/10) to be iron-clad, and yet on a daily we have updates for glitches, bugs, security.. It's really not as unlikely as you think.

Oh no. We understand completely it is an Operating system problem. But we can't say for 100% certainty that the OS caused it. And neither can you. You can't say for certain that there were no outside influences. If the OS was the only thing that had access to the boot sector then viruses would never be able to cause the damage they do.

No one here has been berating you yet. And you haven't made any valid points for 100% certainty one way or the other. You seem to have an issue of accepting the fact that you may never know so you point to one thing and just say "100% certain its that" because we can't prove it "Yes" or "No". Computer work and issues is rarely black and white.

No one has attacked you yet except for your wording of 100% certainty which is unlikely. As far as the "Internet Forum Expert" comment there are people who also do this for a living. I do this for a living. I've worked IT in both Hospital and Government settings. Do you know how badly people in those environments can fuck things up? Especially in medical fields where they need things to just work.

No one has EVER said that Windows 7/10 are iron-clad. No one believes that and would be foolish to even say it. We just know when you mix software; OS / Installed programs you sometimes get unexpected results.

Our job as IT folks it to work around the issue.

[Bigbazz]

I'm clearly not 100% certain since I've said that I can't prove it and that I could be wrong in most of my posts, I just feel that I'm not wrong and that my assessment was the likely cause. The virus issue is not really relevant because I would have discovered the virus in order to remove it, and I've neither discovered nor removed any virus from this computer since I built it, it'd be a strange virus to corrupt my boot sector and then delete itself to leave no trace after I'd fixed the issue.

Nobody has said that Win 7/10 is iron clad but the tone of your posts point towards that belief. The most annoying thing about this discussion is the unrealistic expectation that hard evidence and proof is to be provided with every passing comment even in what was a casual discussion, where everything needs to be challenged in excess.

I made this thread over my frustrations with a supported sound interface not working with Win 10, researching the issue brought up a lot of results with Presonus not even really sure themselves, and providing poor support on the matter.. And then I fixed it by using a legacy driver, the issue in that case was the supplied driver and not Windows.

But my continued frustration is ultimately down to the fact that Cubase 5 doesn't work, a program that cost £500 in 2010 is effectively useless on Win 10 (Steinberg indicates that's on Microsoft, but perhaps it's also on them and they'd just rather you spend more money), Cubase 8.5 is £360 and it's very likely I'll come across more incompatibility issues with plugins..

Upgrading to Win 10 could be pretty bloody expensive.

[Lathais]

I'm clearly not 100% certain since I've said that I can't prove it and that I could be wrong in most of my posts, I just feel that I'm not wrong and that my assessment was the likely cause. The virus issue is not really relevant because I would have discovered the virus in order to remove it, and I've neither discovered nor removed any virus from this computer since I built it, it'd be a strange virus to corrupt my boot sector and then delete itself to leave no trace after I'd fixed the issue.

Actually, that is exactly how most boot sector viruses work. They run once, corrupt/destroy your boot sector and are gone. When you next reboot, you find out about it and repair the boot sector or format your drive. If they did not remove traces of the fact they were there, they would be more likely to get caught and you could repair your boot sector before you reboot. That's pretty much the entire point of a boot sector virus, to go undetected until you reboot. It's just many hundreds of times more likely that this is the case rather than Windows, who really only reads the boot sector once at startup, is the cause of the problem, but you seem to want to blame Windows. Hey, don't get me wrong, I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy. That does not mean I am going to blame every single problem my PC has on them though, especially when it is highly unlikely to be the case.

Normally, yeah, we jump on things like this because the odds of it being Windows that caused it is very very unlikely. It's not fair to blame something on Windows when it is not very possible at all that it was Windows that caused it. I'm all for blaming Microsoft for all sorts of shit they do that is shady or just plain not right, but this is just not one of those things.

[Vash The Stampede]

Sorry, but bad sectors on drive isn't Windows fault. Windows is crap, but not that crappy to create bad boot sectors. Remember, businesses use Windows for everyday tasks, and they have hardware for 10 years or more. It isn't Windows.

[Bigbazz]

Sorry, but bad sectors on drive isn't Windows fault. Windows is crap, but not that crappy to create bad boot sectors. Remember, businesses use Windows for everyday tasks, and they have hardware for 10 years or more. It isn't Windows.

A bad sector on a hard drive is not the same thing as corrupted/missing files on a boot sector, related issues can be connected but they are not one in the same.

[Vash The Stampede]

A bad sector on a hard drive is not the same thing as corrupted/missing files on a boot sector, related issues can be connected but they are not one in the same.

A corrupted missing file or boot sector can be related to the OS.

[TaintedOne]

@Bigbazz have you tried running Cubase 5 in compatibility mode ? No guarantees but it could work.

Also while it sucks the latest driver didnt work for the hardware you should take that up with your hardware vendor. They made the driver not Microsoft. Contact their support and ask why they claim W10 compatibility when it clearly doesnt work.

[Bigbazz]

@Bigbazz have you tried running Cubase 5 in compatibility mode ? No guarantees but it could work.

Also while it sucks the latest driver didnt work for the hardware you should take that up with your hardware vendor. They made the driver not Microsoft. Contact their support and ask why they claim W10 compatibility when it clearly doesnt work.

Yeah I've tried, it does actually run but there are some serious stability and CPU usage issues caused when you run more than 2 tracks (lots of drop outs), in practical use it is completely unusable, I don't know what the cause is but it seems to be widely reported people getting the same problems and confirmed by Steinberg. On this matter I will just stick with Win 7, it's just a damn shame that such expensive software gets left in the past often with stuff like this.

Its probably in Steinbergs interests to not push the matter with Microsoft, since they want to sell new versions rather than have people lingering on old versions. For me I have no need for the newer versions since Cubase 5 does everything I need and is very powerful, very versatile and easy to use. So I will stick mainly with Win 7, unless I can get Cubase 8.5 on the cheap it's way too much of an investment.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I had a few minor issues after upgrading to Windows 10, but I worked through them.

[Viikkis]

If only that were true.

It is. No one forces you to use Windows.

[Bigbazz]

I had a few minor issues after upgrading to Windows 10, but I worked through them.

I had a load of issues on my laptop especially when Win 10 first became available (I upgraded it early on), my sound drivers kept borking and I had to end task on this particular process which would fix it temporarily, eventually a restart would fix it. Some Windows updates seems to have fixed that problem for the most part, not had it happen in a while now. Otherwise the start bar menu would break entirely quite often, that still occasionally happens and requires a restart.

Laptop wasn't a clean install, upgrade. On my current PC I did a clean install of Win 10 from a USB drive.

It is. No one forces you to use Windows.

Maybe his place of work does? Or a particular software he uses requires Windows? Very possible to be effectively forced to use Windows. I like Windows personally and am not a big fan of OSX, but lets say I needed to use Logic, only Apple supports Logic since they bought it out.