glory to the shal'dorei

[Bosen]

The city is so well done. Beautiful.

[ravenmoon]

Yeah I know about that :P

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So Kal'dorei being the "Mother race" of elvenkind basically. They are the direct descendant of Dark Trolls. Whereas previously the Kal'dorei split into 2 separate races, Legion is establishing they actually split into 3 - Kal'dorei, Quel'dorei and Shal'dorei. Interesting stuff.

For the people on beta - Do Shal'dorei have anything to say about reuniting with NEs and BEs or did they kinda sorta always knew they existed?

Kinda, but some subtleties., Quel'dorei are not always a separate race. High Elven Quel'dorei are. They are a sub-race of night elves but because of their huge colour change, lore uniqueness in their own style and massive focus, and also being a playable race, we tend to perceive them as a separate and forget that they are just a night elven sub-race - more distinctive changes, cultural too, but really they're just light skinned elves.

Shal'dorei ofc it's much more easily identifiable, they are also changed but not quite like that. they are still a night elven culture - it's basically what night elves would be like if they continued as responsible versions of their pre-sundering selves. The Shal'dorei are very much night elven, the change from pre-sundering times is minimal and superficial - darker skin and thinner due to their diet. Moon/star focus, night theme, same traditions etc, they're largely another aspect of Kal'dorei that have developed in their own way.

It's like the Taunka who developed differnetly from the Tauren or the Iron Dwarves from the Dwarves, The Zandalari from the Darkspear forest trolls.

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shal=shadow

oh good, thanks.

[Rhlor]

Sun's Reach Harbor in Isle of Quel'Danas

[Koryn123]

If they were to update Silvermoon with their current level of graphics, holy cow that would look so incredible.

I'm excited for this just because it looks so reminiscent of the Blood Elves' architecture. I wish there was more reason for Blizzard to have Blood Elf buildings. But since they just use Dalaran whenever they need a place for Blood Elves to hang out, I doubt they'll get any buildings, like, ever.

Only thing we can hope for is possibly some high elf buildings for Alleria's elves with her in the 1,000 year twisting nether fight. But Blizzard would probably just use the BC model for it.

Darn, it's very rarely when something new looking can get me so excited. I like the simplicity of 2007 graphics in BC and earlier models, and haven't had much to get excited about since then, as Blizzard's been stuck in their orc log spikey poop mud huts thing since 2010, and before that was mainly Scourge stuff between BC up to Cata.

This is the first time in a long time that I've been really wow'd by a new environment they've put in the game, and I can tell they put a lot of work into Suramar. I'm very excited for it, and it almost makes up for how much the Blood Elves are being shoved into the mud so far in Legion.

Blizzard needs to never ever ever go back to stupid ugly spikes and bones and tusks and crap like that. It's so bland and boring, especially when like all the gear available from quests is ugly browns and greys and dull colors and spikes and bones for so long. More elegant stuff is needed, and Suramar looks perfect.

The only thing that would make it better is if there were more unique models among the Nightborne, because it looks like there's just a million clones of the same man and woman and boy and girl.

But as it stands now, it's breathtaking, but especially the huge harbor, with the high walls across the channel. It screams awesomeness. I love it. All Legion needs now are strong Blood Elf characters who are shown to not be pets of humans. Rommath spotlight would be great, then. I hope he's not too tied up in the mage order hall, and I dearly hope he doesn't grow to like the Kirin Tor a ton and suddenly say "oh, you guys aren't so bad, here, I'll live in Dalaran as a bellboy too, just like Aethas!"

[Combatbutler]

I thought that picture was of Zin'Azshari - although I did wonder why it was on the heading of the section of the high elves, previously when the image was released it was quoted as being a depiction of Zin'Azshari

Looking closerly at it in Chronicles, it looks more like SIlvermoon City as High Elves not Blood Elves - i.e. Undamaged, with the blue, and it's also on the sea ... slthough that could be the Well of Eternity - Zin'Azshari was not near a sea.


AS Silvermoon, I can probably say this is what blizzard is going to try and make the city look like once they release the fully repaired version. However it could be another NElven city.

It is Quel'danas, with the sunwell in the middle but you can see the harbor on the Silvermoon side anyway, it is labelled in the chronicle as High elf kingdom of Quel'thalas.

This is Shin Azshari

http://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Zin-Azshari.jpg

[Beloren]

I'm just glad they're not evil. It's one of the things I love about Warcraft.. the orcs weren't stupid and bestial, the dark elves weren't evil but good, the white elves weren't all perfect lotr high elves - even though it's nice they kept a portion of that. Now they're expanding the night elves, i'm glad these darker elves aint all bad either.

[Mace]

When blizzard want to show a different side of one of their races, they alter them slightly in a sub-race, this can easily be a group that developed differently or an origin group.

Remember we actually first had high elves in the game, and night elves were the origin group, but they were so big, they changed our perception of Elves we since then viewed all high elves in terms of night elves. But as they made high elves are very different group instead, I'm happy they gave night elves a usable sub-race. It's refreshing makes them more likeable to others.

this is what sub-races big attraction for me is. It's not just that you get different customizations, it's that you get to play a different fantasy of your favourite group. This is what fuelled their creation in the first place, it was your fave race in a different setting, giving you extra background and depth to your race.

Don't wanna play a goody goody pure noble Draenei? You can play as a more tribal Broken or a more sinister darker Eredar
Don't wanna play as an aggressive, hot headed violent and angry green orc? You can play the more shamanistic peaceful Mag'har
Don't wanna play a hippy goody goody nature night elf, you can play a haughtier more arcane nightborne.

the list goes on and on
Zandalari - a more intellectual and civilized troll
Drakkari - a darker more sinister one

Wildhammer - a more tribal elements and nature oreintated dwarf
Dark Iron - a more darker caster magician kinda dwarf

etc etc, some of the fantasy alternatives are more distinctive , but not all are. Difference between Taunka, Highmountain and Tauren is more geography than any real societal differences. Leper Gnomes are just poisoned mutated gnomes, whearas mechagnomes are full on machine life forms - one are gnomes without hope the other are a purer engnieering mindset version -etc. Some are really different.. like Gilgoblin vs Goblin

[Rhlor]

When blizzard want to show a different side of one of their races, they alter them slightly in a sub-race, this can easily be a group that developed differently or an origin group.

Remember we actually first had high elves in the game, and night elves were the origin group, but they were so big, they changed our perception of Elves we since then viewed all high elves in terms of night elves. But as they made high elves are very different group instead, I'm happy they gave night elves a usable sub-race. It's refreshing makes them more likeable to others.

this is what sub-races big attraction for me is. It's not just that you get different customizations, it's that you get to play a different fantasy of your favourite group. This is what fuelled their creation in the first place, it was your fave race in a different setting, giving you extra background and depth to your race.

Don't wanna play a goody goody pure noble Draenei? You can play as a more tribal Broken or a more sinister darker Eredar
Don't wanna play as an aggressive, hot headed violent and angry green orc? You can play the more shamanistic peaceful Mag'har
Don't wanna play a hippy goody goody nature night elf, you can play a haughtier more arcane nightborne.

the list goes on and on
Zandalari - a more intellectual and civilized troll
Drakkari - a darker more sinister one

Wildhammer - a more tribal elements and nature oreintated dwarf
Dark Iron - a more darker caster magician kinda dwarf

etc etc, some of the fantasy alternatives are more distinctive , but not all are. Difference between Taunka, Highmountain and Tauren is more geography than any real societal differences. Leper Gnomes are just poisoned mutated gnomes, whearas mechagnomes are full on machine life forms - one are gnomes without hope the other are a purer engnieering mindset version -etc. Some are really different.. like Gilgoblin vs Goblin

hopefully see sub-race in the next expa

[Mace]

hopefully see sub-race in the next expa

yeah.. it would be so cool.. to play a different version of your fave race

[Maxilian]

Funny you mention Harbor and Silvermoon in the same sentence. Always seemed so strange such a massive and glorious city right on the coast has no harbor, or ships for that matter. A great Blood Elven harbor with big elf boats would look glorious, like the Grey Havens of LOTR.

They had one, not in Silvermoon, but near it, but it was overrun by Wretched

[Combatbutler]

They had one, not in Silvermoon, but near it, but it was overrun by Wretched

They had more than one lorewise.

[Maxilian]

They had more than one lorewise.

Yeah, but they got a little wrecked by the scourge

[Rhlor]

They had one, not in Silvermoon, but near it, but it was overrun by Wretched

if I remember correctly on the novel of the blood of the Highborne the blood knights managed to retake

[Maxilian]

if I remember correctly on the novel of the blood of the Highborne the blood knights managed to retake

I don't really remember but i'm pretty sure it was retaken already, i mean... its overrun by Wretched, it should not be that hard to clean it up! (But ingame still overrun)

[Mace]

Only 1 city and only 1 group is a massive understatement. For one, the city is gi-fucking-normous. Like, fully fleshed out Silvermoon x 10. Also, Suramar questing reveals a lot about the politics and groups within the Nightborne to super great depth, TBH it feels like they actually got some real storywriters to get on board with the whole Suramar campaign. It's too good to be WoW.

It's a huge encouraging sign that they are going a level higher now. Suramar I think represents a change in city design philosophy in WoW. They mentioned in the interviews it was their most ambitious project to date having never taking the more realistic approach with cities. If it went well we would see more of that sort of thing. Technically we should have several cities in-game of similar size or slightly smaller. This is the first time they've changed to this style.

Saying that, Zul'drak city was an entire zone, much bigger than Suramar, but it wasn't such a masterpiece of art, designed like a proper city in mind rather than levelling space.
Look at waht Silvermoon & Qhel'danis isle look like properly below. It makes Suramar look nearly average. If they keep this up, can you imagine fully reapired Silvermoon looking like that in-game whenever they next get back to it? and can you imagine what Naz'jatar or Zandalar would look like? or.. Argus?

[shoc]

It's a huge encouraging sign that they are going a level higher now. Suramar I think represents a change in city design philosophy in WoW. They mentioned in the interviews it was their most ambitious project to date having never taking the more realistic approach with cities. If it went well we would see more of that sort of thing. Technically we should have several cities in-game of similar size or slightly smaller. This is the first time they've changed to this style.

Saying that, Zul'drak city was an entire zone, much bigger than Suramar, but it wasn't such a masterpiece of art, designed like a proper city in mind rather than levelling space.
Look at waht Silvermoon & Qhel'danis isle look like properly below. It makes Suramar look nearly average. If they keep this up, can you imagine fully reapired Silvermoon looking like that in-game whenever they next get back to it? and can you imagine what Naz'jatar or Zandalar would look like? or.. Argus?

I actually had an idea for an expansion that could revisit everything north of the Thandol Span, and that could see Gilneas and Silvermoon receiving a Suramar treatment as capital cities.

[ravenmoon]

I actually had an idea for an expansion that could revisit everything north of the Thandol Span, and that could see Gilneas and Silvermoon receiving a Suramar treatment as capital cities.

That would be like incredible.. imagine if they revisted Ironforge.. and we got something like the Dwarves city in the Hobbit? I remember thinking BRD looked so grand, and was just rather dismayed that all there was to irounforge was that one level ring.

I could see Lordearon looking lilke some sort of Rome, cata remake being another disappointment there. And ofc, Silvermoon, like in the picture above.

I always felt Cities should have been done like Suramar, be zone centred questing areas first, post the quest chain they could become sanctuaries in some sections, but still have danger about them, like in dodgy quarters, racial dailies that changed every 10 level range, and the idea that they would also be raidable would have been awesome - although for cities I thought would be a unique kind of Battleground experience, like city assault attack/defense game. Even now if they did for races what they are doing for class order halls, cities could be your racial order hall


In fact, I kinda wish they would do that. That way they can go city by city every expansion and re-design them into proper metropolis' including designed for a game of defense/attack city siege - as a new pvp game addition to BGs and Arena. Double them up as Suramar type centred quest zone too and converted to sanctuaries post quest zone via phasing or just have certain sections Sanctuaries. I always thought making cities smaller because players might get lost was a bad idea, so they shrunk ironforge instead of simply give you city transport. FFXIV has these teleportation systems, I'm not sure why you couldn't have guards you clicked on for directions also able to summon you a ride that would take you there until you managed to get your own mount or learnt the vast city well. Reducing it in size rather than alternative solutions seemed a lot of work. But hey.

Anyway you need a city like Silvermoon looking as gorgeous as the picture above to really feel it for the HELves when the scourge come matching in messing up the place, and feel really excited for them when the BElves win it back and Quel'thalas.

It's like how I feel about Suramar now after seeing it, I really want to expel the Legion and slap the silly nightborne in the face and yell wake up, fight these guys. Although i must admit, Lyneth's approach is better , it builds up very well into a grand liberation effort which for me would be tearful to see the night elves alongside the nightborne win back their ancient city and get the first real happy ending since we met them in WC3. There road has been so tragic, getting Suramar back and a nightwell feels like getting their empire back and the well of eternity even though it's no where near as grand, but it evokes a similar repsonse like that.

With Suramar, the nightwell and the nightborne in the mix, the night elves feel like a counter to the Blood elves. The Well of Eternity was vastly superior to the sunwell, the nightwell feels more on the same level. Suramar seems more the counter to Silvermoon as opposed to town like Darnassus, altho in game Suramar looks better than Silvermoon right now, from the picture above hinting at what the proper version should be like and noting Silvermoon still needs to be updated, I have a feeling that will change. Finally the nightborne's presence feels like just the extra weight the night elven forces need to polar match the blood elves.
Druids vs Farstirders , Nightborne arcanists vs Magisters , Priestesses of the Moon vs Blood Knights. it feels more even.

I remember when I first saw Darnassus, it was disappointing, after reading their lore in WC3's introduction I was expecting much much more for the night elves first city since the sundering, when I first saw silvermoon in 2006/7, I remember feeling WOW, this is more like it. Video games and fantasy films kept failing to have art to really match the descriptive splendour of Elves their narrative often included, Silvermoon and Quel'thalas I felt for the first time in my experience, matched the Elves' splendour. But 2006 design is like child's play to 2016's Suramar, whose grandeur again for the first time since 2006, I feel matches the narrative in the lore books of pre-sundering night elves.

Then I saw the picture of Quel'thalas above (I had thought it was Zin'Azshari) - Quel'danis /Silvermoon edge - and Suramar feels like the older super model compared to the new rave/sensation girl on the catwalk, and i feel like "oh. this is what it's going to look like when they revisit". Suramar is the first city that really blows the concept art out of the water when fully realized, it's the second time only that's happened when blizzard art concepts translates into the actual game, they almost never do. E.g I remember Dalaran not matching the concept art shown in WotLK collector's edition and thinking.. Dang i want that one, and looking at the in game version and going.. it's nice, but this is what it should look like. Seeing the vastness of the Icecrown Citadel and Ulduar and ofc Zul'drak i felt - it's not like blizzard can't, it's just that hey don't do big cities for Sanctuaries.

Maybe a change is coming from now on. But my hopes to go back and redo old cities is low. Still it's nice to have Draenei having a proper city in Shattrath AU draenor, and night elves having a proper city in Suramar. I'm pretty sure they're going to want to give us Silvermoon like the pictures above. I don't know how they are going to do it for the other races, but I would love to see Dwarves' Ironforge like an updated Thaurissian City/BRD (Grim Batol was so small), would love to see Lorderon like proper for the Forsaken. And after seeing Zul'Gurub /Zul'Drak - Zan'dalar city whenever that shows should be quite grand looking for Trolls. Undermine and Full Kezan would be quite the scene. I don't expect any more from Gnomeragan. Funnily enough nor Stormwind, which i think is nearly 2/3 of Suramar anyway. I don't expect any changes to Orgrimmar either, nor Darnassus now that Suramar exists for night elves, nor Thunderbluff.

Silvermoon, Lordearon, Undermine, Zandalar and Ironforge with Gilneas City - but if you want something on Suramar's level, it would have to be a central theme in an expansion. I can see Zandalar fitting that criteria. I can see Silvermoon being redone to match the picture. The rest, hmm. Undermine might come in the future. but re-doing Lordaeron and Ironforge or Gilneas seems more like a wish list to me.

Ah well, at least there is still those for the movie. I doubt we will ever see Suramar city in a movie. But we will see Silvermoon and Lordearon in WC2 .. and those should be epic. If that urges blizzard to make their in-game version match them, that would be super.

[Rhlor]

I would like that in the future the 3 races of elves formed a political, economic and military union. perhaps they are preserving their national sovereignty but increasingly closer together

[ravenmoon]

Only 1 city and only 1 group is a massive understatement. For one, the city is gi-fucking-normous.

Let me add that I love it. but thinking about it yeah. I hope no one feels night elves have to just have 1 city only.

Blizzard could have redone Darnassus to show this - but it's messy - people like Daranssus and may not want it to change, then you have to de-rail the legion theme to explain why and how night elves are suddenly wielding arcane magic to such heights so soon, to people who've never read the lore books or known they use too, esp when you last saw them in cata, they were being humiliated by blood elves.

It was much neater to show a city that had survived from the sundering, and this allows you to tie it in to the main theme of the expansion, design a zone around it, quest it up properly. And as seen elsewhere, city wise - I think the other races will survive with night elves having two cities - many races have multiple cities, who's combined area will dwarf Suramar. It's not like you'll say t yourself, hey sorry, can't do that because night elves must only have 1 city. Nope can't have that because the wow population must only see night elves as druids. It's clear they don't agree with that.

[Mace]

I would like that in the future the 3 races of elves formed a political, economic and military union. perhaps they are preserving their national sovereignty but increasingly closer together

exactly.. why not work together? I see night elves with blood elves in demon hunters and it feels nice to have an all elf thing.

I don't see it as 3 races, it's still 2 races, nightborne may have mutated but their entire theme and visual is 100% night elven, but b/c it's 2 eras of night elves, one pre-sundering and the other post, i can see how it can be viewed as 3, but it honestly feels like one group is just a subset of the other rather than a separate distinct thing - b/c of history and theme.

Still I think it is precisely because of the nightborne that the bridge between night elf and blood elf society can happen. It's not like you need it as the Demon hunters show, but in the light of the Legion invasion, surely the night elves can't hate the blood elves because of magic, and well the recent aggressions against each other would pale compared to what the legion has done to elven kind.

I can see night elves becoming one, some nightborne some normal and working alongside the blood elves and high elves, though I can see the blood elves and high elves largely sticking to day based societies, but doesn't mean they can't work together like the demon hunters.

If only the days of when Elves where there own thing! Elvendom, with night elves, nightborne, highborne, high elves, blood elves, rehabilitated wretched, maybe even fringe darkfallen/San'layn - all the different elf groups and their subsidiaries, pilgrimmage to Suramar as their sort of Valinor