Fun Detected, Fun Nerfed

[Mhyroth]

So somethings stay unique for the people that did them on the appropriate class when the content was more current?

I don't see how that's such a horrible thing. Some of those looks will be rare, the people that will have them were playing that class when they did the content. And that's OK with me.

There is a difference to know something will get removed (aka Cutting Edge, 100% dropchance mounts) vs something which is not coming back, without knowledge beforehand.
Blizzard has stated themselves they don't want/like to remove stuff from the game (aka T3, Black Proto Drake are the most famous examples) yet they do it in another way now again. Those are with care "implemented back" into the game via the Black Market Auction House.
This has nothing to do with exclusivity, because I personally don't care if I have those removed appearances, but other's will, since there was no indication that they'd be removed in the first place.
I was merely answering to what the topic is about and all it's different parts, some of which make sense (like I stated) and other's which don't (which I've also stated) for whatever reason it might be.
Back in Vanilla up to Wrath (before the Cataclysm changed the entire world) I knew nobody who had more as 1 character, let alone all Classes and has done Loremaster on all of them. It's more as logical (from what a lot of people suggest here) that if you completed the quest(s) or Loremaster itself, you'd be given those appearances due to the fact they are no longer available. This idea tho would be bad for the current content and game since it's so easy accesible, but 8 or even 10 years back it wasn't as evident as now. Thus to "reward" those who actually did put in effort would make sense. ( at least from what I understand.)
I do agree with you on some part that a lot of the exclusivity would be lost that way, but in Blizzard's eyes exclusivity works differently now. They see it as: you did it before others and managed to "show it off/use it" before others did after nerfs. That's a different way of exclusivity as opposed to let's say 8 years ago.
It's a hard topic to discuss because both ends are right in their own way, and it's hard to make all participating parties happy with any decision which is made.
We'll see how everything works out in Legion (and if changes are made) and give feedback if we notice any flaws. This can be done on the Beta now too, but to a lesser extent due to character copies not working, not everything implemented yet etc.
I do apologise if my writing is a little odd/off since English is not my native language, but I do hope I made my "opinion" clear on this topic . It's always good to have proper discussions and see both sides of a medal before making an opinion.

Do you have a list of these items that are no longer obtainable? If anything that'd be a worthwhile avenue for blizzard to pursue (making these items craftable, for example).

I don't have a list myself, since I haven't looked into it a lot, but I'm sure some clever people can use the WoWHead database to extract those. Unless WoWHead doesn't have every item ever added in the game (which I doubt) it's possible to do, but not something I'm personally good at ^^.

[Ainyan]

The biggest argument I see is "I want all of the old removed skins/colors" - and the fact is, Blizzard has already put in one way to get many of those removed skins, and has already stated that there will be more ways to obtain those removed skins. I don't really get all the frothing "omg it's not Diablo 3, I actually have to farm" hatred for this system. It's 1000x better than what we have now, and it actively encourages people to get out and work to complete the collection. I'm a collector - I have 733 unique pets, 214 toys, and 263 mounts. Of my 15 100s, a good 8 of them have full void storage/banks from transmog gear because I sit in MogIt all day and decide on new gear sets, then go out and farm them. My main has zero free bank and void storage spaces and is actually carrying around two bags of transmog gear just waiting for 7.0 to drop. So don't think I don't sympathize with y'all about having to go out and collect more gear.

But in the end, I'm actually getting everything that Blizzard promised me. I'm getting all of the old quest rewards that I threw away ages ago in Vanilla/TBC/Wrath. Maybe I'm only getting the ones valid for my class (but then, I leveled more than one toon >.>), but that matches the original effort I put in. And going into old raids to farm transmog, will I be upset because my warrior sees that mail belt drop that my hunter needs? Frustrated - sure. I am NOW when it happens. And I'll suck it up, because I don't expect everything just handed to me for minimal effort, and keep farming - the exact same way I have been for the past 12 years. Only this time, when I do get the appearance I'm after, I won't end up with bank space -1 because of it.

I get where y'all are coming from - I just don't agree with you. I think the system as Blizzard has it currently is really good, and encourages people to go out and farm on more than just their main toon. Now, if they end up not putting in a way to get all those removed appearances? Then I'll be happy to call them out right along side you. But as it stands, they've said they plan to put in ways for people to access appearances that don't exist any more, and I'm content to wait and see if they actually do before I grab my pitchfork and torch.

[The Stormbringer]

Why do you have to do that? It's your choice that you want it on every single character that you have so do the work. This is simply "I want it all for doing nothing".

People start playing alts because they want more to do, then complain they have to do more and after nerfs they complain they don't have anything to do. Everyone who is playing 1, 2 or maybe 3 characters total have everything done in a few days because others want to play 1 hour a week and have everything. Game becomes boring, people quit.

You know what is fun? Playing with friends and killing huge dragons. Not grinding your alts over and over or skipping content to get cosmetic items.

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You can collect without having everything.

I have eleven characters sitting at max level right now. I've done plenty of quests, and been playing the game for a very long time. It is disingenuous of you to say that I want it 'for nothing'. All the effort, all the fun times, all the experiences in the game count to that. If it didn't, Blizzard wouldn't be doing ANYTHING retroactive at all.

[SoulSoBreezy]

I don't have a list myself, since I haven't looked into it a lot, but I'm sure some clever people can use the WoWHead database to extract those. Unless WoWHead doesn't have every item ever added in the game (which I doubt) it's possible to do, but not something I'm personally good at ^^.

It's why I asked, I've tried =)
Wowhead's db lets us view items that no longer have a source (as in no longer available to obtain in game). However this also prevents us from separating items earned from deleted quests versus items dropped from deleted NPCs.
I'm sure I'm missing something though.

[SirCowdog]

On a side note, is there a list of item appearances that are no longer available from ANY source? I know a lot of times armor or weapon models are repeated from different sources, but there will still be some exceptions.

[Anuibus]

I think the solution would be making it so each character only unlocks skins for themselves, that way people wouldn't have to complain about not getting every single quest reward unlocked.

Or they could scrap the idea of getting quest rewards retroactively, if you want items from an old quest then you should have kept them.

Sorry, but back in vanilla I never expected my valor/heroism set to be useful again and I needed the money.

[Dhrizzle]

Sorry, but back in vanilla I never expected my valor/heroism set to be useful again and I needed the money.

I used that mod that tells you what transmogs you've unlocked and it reckons I should get the mage and priest sets for completing the warlock one. You might get the pally one to go with your warrior set.

[Fang7986]

System we are getting in Legion is a thousand times better than what we have currently and people still bitch about it. I swear some players won't be happy until on the creation of a level 1 toon they have access to every single item in the game.

[ComputerNerd]

They also said only soulbound items will unlock, so by my understanding, you have to do those quests with multiple plate chestpieces multiple times on different characters and pick each reward at least once.

And the statement of being capable of equipping would have meant a huge plate wearer bias.
So there is no good reason for anyone to say that blizzard are bad just because a statement made very early is prone to change.
It is a poor argument to use the blizzcon statements as a claim for a broken promise.
A lot of what they said had major problems, if people are willing to see that.

This big assumption that ONE possibility is the only way to approach the problem isn't helping matters.
If you think you have a good argument that the unlocking of every legacy quest reward by default is better than some yet to be determined or even hinted at system then go ahead and write a forum post about it.

When blizzard actually tell us something useful about what their plans are, THEN go ahead and argue why it is bad.
But in the meantime you can't rubbish something we know NOTHING about.

[Tems]

And where is the problem here?

Blizzard clearly wants to avoid a situation where Warriors are the masters of old content farming.. while also, unlocking everything with no regards to class/faction/armor restrictions is quite stupid and unfair to some.. Maybe the loremaster part is annoying, but I'm sure that you'll be able to get all those rewards easily through other means than doing the achievement over and over on different toons.

Oh and its ok to take 5 seconds out of your time to equip a green :>

[Icaras]

The twitter quoted in OPs post, one of them had the response "we would rather offer other opportunities to earn otherwise lost appearances"

This suits me. It means if I want a cloth drop to be unlocked, I need to do it with the character. Otherwise I could see dungeons becoming an always need all the time situation. "HEy that was an upgrade!" "Too bad dude, it was a wardrobe upgrade/unlock for me". (Which may still happen, sadly)

[Deleted]

What you are missing is the luxurious fact, that in the future, you can go to Karazhan with your Warrior, DK, second Paladin and unlock those boots for your main paladin, regardless of his bad RNG luck. You just can't use your mage or hunter. Still, your chances of quickly completing any set locked behind a raid ID have increased greatly.

Yeah but you assume that people will do it in first place. Me if transmog will go live with this nonsense reastrictions i am not bothering with this feature at all. I am not goind to farm boring faceroll content over and over just to unlock gear what i alredy droped million times on my other char what cant unlock it.

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The twitter quoted in OPs post, one of them had the response "we would rather offer other opportunities to earn otherwise lost appearances"

This suits me. It means if I want a cloth drop to be unlocked, I need to do it with the character. Otherwise I could see dungeons becoming an always need all the time situation. "HEy that was an upgrade!" "Too bad dude, it was a wardrobe upgrade/unlock for me". (Which may still happen, sadly)

You cant need on items what are not for your armor type.

[Deleted]

I dont see the problem with this one.

I also dont see how its removing 'fun'.

[Moozart]

At 1:03 seconds he specifically says "You have to be able to equip the item in order to unlock it". So that precedes your assumption that every type of armor would be unlocked. Do you really think a player would have every armor type from a quest retroactively placed in their wardrobe when a fresh level 1 leveling would not? Use your head.

Does Blizzard have to spell out every freaking scenario they can think of (including what every player thinks of) when making an announcement?

In the case of Warriors, we can equip EVERYTHING except wands and class specific gear.

[Tharkkun]

In the case of Warriors, we can equip EVERYTHING except wands and class specific gear.

It's pretty obvious he meant you needed to be able to transmog the item considering the wardrobe system is an extension of the current transmog system. That's why so many people are confused. It's not a new feature. It's an upgraded feature.

[FelPlague]

Because transmog didn't even *exist* when they removed the original 1-60 quests from the game. We had absolutely no way of knowing that we needed to do those quests for every armor type, so the only sensible solution is to unlock everything for the removed quests that we have completed regardless of equipability.

Quests that are still in the game are a different story since we can still do all of those on any character types needed.

then what about those people who would have done those quests if they knew transmog was coming? should everyone unlock every quest item tmog wise from vanilla?

and what about those people who sold their corrupted ashbringers, or sold their nax 40 gear? welp lets give everyone corrupted ashbringer and everyone all nax 40 gear cause its no longer in the game and if people knew tmog was going to come out they would have kept it!

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i still dont see why everyone is complaining so much

this new system is like our current system but even better, as your mog will be acocunt bound, so getting that plate boots on your dk, will give it to yoru warrior too, meaning farming will be so much easier...

and yes if you wanna complete a game 100% that is 12 years old you are gunna have to play a F ton dont try to go "ah blizz i wanna 100% the game in 15 minutes"

alot of vanilla items were resued for the cata rework, or come from world drops, some dont, but most do

and issue is if they give everyone all the items they completed from the vanilal quests not just the ones that fit them cause " i would have if i knew mogging was going to come out" well what about the others?

if i knew mogging would have come out i wouldent of sold my corrupted ashbringer, i woudlent of sold my nax 40 gear, and i woulda done every single quest possible but i dident

[SoulSoBreezy]

On a side note, is there a list of item appearances that are no longer available from ANY source? I know a lot of times armor or weapon models are repeated from different sources, but there will still be some exceptions.

http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=...=0:0;eb=1;gb=1
Changed the "added in expansion" field to the appropriate expansion. "none" is for classic.
Unfortunately these filters are limited - we can't identify the original source of these items.

[FelPlague]

http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=...=0:0;eb=1;gb=1
Changed the "added in expansion" field to the appropriate expansion. "none" is for classic.
Unfortunately these filters are limited - we can't identify the original source of these items.

i will mae it my duty to list the items with no possible way of getting them now with this list...

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keep in mind this will include world drops, dungeon/raid drops so only a few fo these would unlock even if they gave you stuff from all quests
Capes-2
http://www.wowhead.com/item=19870/ha...#same-model-as
http://www.wowhead.com/item=19888/overlords-embrace
Chest-3
http://www.wowhead.com/item=23000/pl...ibcage&spec=64
http://www.wowhead.com/item=23069/ne...s-garb&spec=64
http://www.wowhead.com/item=21183/ea...r-vest&spec=64
Feet-5
http://www.wowhead.com/item=23073/bo...cement&spec=64
http://www.wowhead.com/item=20619/ac...reaves&spec=64
http://www.wowhead.com/item=20634/bo...fright&spec=64
http://www.wowhead.com/item=19892/an...-boots&spec=64
http://www.wowhead.com/item=20621/bo...s-moor&spec=64
Gloves-
i gotta go for now, raid then eat so i will finish later ,but so far... there is not many quest iterms right out gone

[mhdoe]

To me it looks like people are now trying to find things to complain about. This is probably one of the same people who complained when transmog was released that they miss the clown suits of B.C. and would never use it. If you are looking for things to complain about and searching every last word in a post to find something to start a "they ruined it thread" more then likely you are tired of the game itself and it's time to move on.

[SirCowdog]

http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=...=0:0;eb=1;gb=1
Changed the "added in expansion" field to the appropriate expansion. "none" is for classic.
Unfortunately these filters are limited - we can't identify the original source of these items.

Nice, thanks!

To me it looks like people are now trying to find things to complain about. This is probably one of the same people who complained when transmog was released that they miss the clown suits of B.C. and would never use it. If you are looking for things to complain about and searching every last word in a post to find something to start a "they ruined it thread" more then likely you are tired of the game itself and it's time to move on.

It's not complaining just to complain. It's seeing an issue with a system of the game and giving feedback on some legitimate concerns for how it works.