Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[qwerty1]

True!
But i prefere to blame not all casuals, just stupid and lazy part.
When last WOD LEGENDARY quest boss for ring could be killed just by AA - this is so bad!
When Blizz dumping down WOW so hard for the stupid and lazy part, instead of suggest casuals become better and cultivate - this is so bad!

[OreoLover]

Why is meaningful content only what gives BiS in the entire game to you?

You actively advocate the destruction of your own content by making it trivial then try to chip away at raid.... just why?

Look at vanilla and tbc. They had proper progression. Do not ask that your none raid content gives you mythic raid gear. Ask that it gives you blues and greens that prepare you for the next stage of difficulty.

You keep actively asking for progression to be destroyed outside of raids so you can progress in raids but you don't raid nor want to... Can you really not see how that is bad idea?

Can you not see the bad situation created by raiders having the by far best gear for all content, and then multiplying it relentlessly?

I am fine accepting a pretty harsh difference already. It need not be furthered by "oh be happy with blues for your hard work, non-raider; I will come and do 10x the effect in your primary content, though! 'Tis my reward!"

(EDIT: Vanilla and TBC didn't have the immensity of difference in power, so if that is what you advocate, then by all means~)

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Why is meaningful content only what gives BiS in the entire game to you?

You actively advocate the destruction of your own content by making it trivial then try to chip away at raid.... just why?

Look at vanilla and tbc. They had proper progression. Do not ask that your none raid content gives you mythic raid gear. Ask that it gives you blues and greens that prepare you for the next stage of difficulty.

You keep actively asking for progression to be destroyed outside of raids so you can progress in raids but you don't raid nor want to... Can you really not see how that is bad idea?

We had that system in places since late Burning Crusade with the badge vendors. You have been able to craft gear on par with raid gear since Vanilla. Blizzard just removed that option. You would only be able to obtain a 5 piece set, trinkets, and maybe a weapon depending on what recipes were obtainable. You said non-raiders would have this option people who wanted to raid could raid but non raids could grind for these sets instead of raiding.

[primalmatter]

Can you not see the bad situation created by raiders having the by far best gear for all content, and then multiplying it relentlessly?

I am fine accepting a pretty harsh difference already. It need not be furthered by "oh be happy with blues for your hard work, non-raider; I will come and do 10x the effect in your primary content, though! 'Tis my reward!"

(EDIT: Vanilla and TBC didn't have the immensity of difference in power, so if that is what you advocate, then by all means~)

No?

The gear exists only to pass dps checks. What negative is it that the harder content gives better gear to pass those checks?

I don't know maybe their is something I am just not seeing. Why are casuals so concerned where they stand relative to the power of 1% of the population?

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We had that system in places since late Burning Crusade with the badge vendors. You have been able to craft gear on par with raid gear since Vanilla. Blizzard just removed that option. You would only be able to obtain a 5 piece set, trinkets, and maybe a weapon depending on what recipes were obtainable. You said non-raiders would have this option people who wanted to raid could raid but non raids could grind for these sets instead of raiding.

These options are still in the game. I don't get what you are trying to say.

[Sansnom]

Only raid realms remain above low....

Kinda says something no?

What is a "raid" realm?

[primalmatter]

What is a "raid" realm?

http://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us

Roughly the top seven of that list.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

This kind of logic is awful...

By making all the rewards the same you make sure raiding is the only form of progression at the end of the day...

Rewards should be spread out and matched to their content. Hell look at the explanation of tbc. Players should be advancing through content designed for them. This being equal to raiders in terms of power has destroyed the game for everyone but raiders. It is a stance only held by the short sighted and the greedy...

So you get full raid gear from non raid content then what? Your done. You will never be challenged at any point due to your absurd ilv and you don't raid...


Players wanting to be equal to players running the hardest content in the game when their not touching anything half as hard is why WoW has gone to shit for none raiders these last few expacs. Ask for a proper progression path not to be thrown to the very end of progression from mindless grinds to get power you did not earn that breaks the game for you.


A good rep reward would be something like the scryers in tbc. Weeks of grinding got you a nice blue staff that was almost as good as the best heroic dungeon drop.

Warlord's having less content then an 8 year expansion by every metric and only relying on raiding destroyed this game for non-raiders. We had sets equal to raid gear in Burning Crusade that could be crafted or bought on the auction house. We could even earn raid gear from heroic dungeons and activities outside of raiding through badges. This system has been in place before and those expansions had better subscriber retention than warlord's.

[Sansnom]

The problem with WoD was you out geared everything in a day. Through lfr,garrisons, and other sources of easy gear everything was made trivial and pointless.

LFR can only be done once a week and the I doubt the drop rates are better than regular raids. Yes, people CAN clear LFR in a week. But here you are making an assumption that they queue and clear LFR on a weekly basis.

Whether people are acutally doing that I do know, Maybe you do. Or maybe you are making your assumption on what people CAN do to what people ARE doing.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

No?

The gear exists only to pass dps checks. What negative is it that the harder content gives better gear to pass those checks?

I don't know maybe their is something I am just not seeing. Why are casuals so concerned where they stand relative to the power of 1% of the population?

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These options are still in the game. I don't get what you are trying to say.

Source for that claim? It would be gear on par with normal mode which was obtainable every expansion prior to warlord's.

[primalmatter]

Warlord's having less content then an 8 year expansion by every metric and only relying on raiding destroyed this game for non-raiders. We had sets equal to raid gear in Burning Crusade that could be crafted or bought on the auction house. We could even earn raid gear from heroic dungeons and activities outside of raiding through badges. This system has been in place before and those expansions had better subscriber retention than warlord's.

You had crafted sets equal to raid gear throughout WoD. Granted heroic dungeons where scrapped for renamed normal modes but no WoD wasn't all that lacking in content it just made it all obsolete in a manner of a week.

[Sansnom]

http://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us

Roughly the top seven of that list.

And? It shows the numbers of players who have cleared heroic. So these are so called "raid" realms?

So "raid" realms are those with high number of players that cleared heroic? So? And what are you interpreting from that?

[primalmatter]

Source for that claim? It would be gear on par with normal mode which was obtainable every expansion prior to warlord's.

You had three crafted slots plus Apexis gear throughout.

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LFR can only be done once a week and the I doubt the drop rates are better than regular raids. Yes, people CAN clear LFR in a week. But here you are making an assumption that they queue and clear LFR on a weekly basis.

Whether people are acutally doing that I do know, Maybe you do. Or maybe you are making your assumption on what people CAN do to what people ARE doing.

Is there a question or a point in this?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

No... WoD didn't lack content it actually held more...

The problem with WoD was you out geared everything in a day. Through lfr,garrisons, and other sources of easy gear everything was made trivial and pointless.

Casuals need a progression path and it can not be max level into lfr then done. Blizzard needs to rebuild the slow and steady crawl like tbc has.

WoD wasn't lacking it was structured horribly.

or warlord's launched with less launch content then cataclysm and 8 year old expansion.

[primalmatter]

And? It shows the numbers of players who have cleared heroic. So these are so called "raid" realms?

So "raid" realms are those with high number of players that cleared heroic? So? And what are you interpreting from that?

It is the number of guilds on said realms that raid. You have to actively scroll to get to heroic guilds their are so many...

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or warlord's launched with less launch content then cataclysm and 8 year old expansion.

It didn't.

/10chars

[Blayze]

"Raid or die" is what nearly killed Cataclysm, as masses of casuals quit the game rather than grind out bullshit overtuned dungeons for the gear to do bullshit overtuned raids. It took until 4.3, when Blizzard gave us dungeons that didn't suck dick, for the subs to quit tanking.

The concept of the raid tier--that of the content that gets annihilated when it's current and ignored when it's not--needs to die. Not developing a raid could pay for at least one quest zone, and you certainly don't do the former when levelling--but you CAN do the latter, on as many characters as you want, without having to set aside time and find specific people also wanting to do that content at the same time.

Raids are archaic.

[primalmatter]

"Raid or die" is what nearly killed Cataclysm, as masses of casuals quit the game rather than grind out bullshit overtuned dungeons for the gear to do bullshit overtuned raids. It took until 4.3, when Blizzard gave us dungeons that didn't suck dick, for the subs to quit tanking.

The concept of the raid tier--that of the content that gets annihilated when it's current and ignored when it's not--needs to die. Not developing a raid could pay for at least one quest zone, and you certainly don't do the former when levelling--but you CAN do the latter, on as many characters as you want, without having to set aside time and find specific people also wanting to do that content at the same time.

Raids are archaic.

That actually made subs tank quicker. Those who quit when they ran into a challenge in heroic dungeons in cata are the part of the player base blizzard should of actively been trying to kill off...

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

It is the number of guilds on said realms that raid. You have to actively scroll to get to heroic guilds their are so many...

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It didn't.

/10chars

Burning Crusade had brought more content than warlord's that's more accurate. Warlord's had less content at launch than Burning Crusade if just look at them from an expansion from an expansion to expansion comparison.

[primalmatter]

Burning Crusade had brought more content than warlord's that's more accurate. Warlord's had less content at launch than Burning Crusade if just look at them from an expansion from an expansion to expansion comparison.

It did. Burning Crusade has the most content then any expansion to date. Not understanding how its contents reward structure aided its longevity though would make a expansion as large as tbc suffer the same fate as WoD in a month rather then three weeks.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

You had three crafted slots plus Apexis gear throughout.

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Is there a question or a point in this?

We had crafted sets but we couldn't get raid gear from valor points or justice points like previous expansions which gave us a reason to spam dungeons. Apexis gear stops at like 650 item level which is below the current raid level.

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It did. Burning Crusade has the most content then any expansion to date. Not understanding how its contents reward structure aided its longevity though would make a expansion as large as tbc suffer the same fate as WoD in a month rather then three weeks.

Warlord's problem isn't just reward structure it added less content to the game then previous expansions period stop trying to dance around that part and pretend it's not an issue. Mist and Warlord's had similar difficult and mist had better subscriber retention the problem isn't only reward structures blizzard just genuinely dropped the ball this expansion content wise.

[primalmatter]

We had crafted sets but we couldn't get raid gear from valor points or justice points like previous expansions which gave us a reason to spam dungeons. Apexis gear stops at like 650 item level which is below the current raid level.

It was the same as normal modes at the time. I guess you could argue it should of been upgraded with BRF.

Warlord's problem isn't just reward structure it added less content to the game then previous expansions period stop trying to dance around that part and pretend it's not an issue.

It was a problem it just wasn't the main problem. More content would of appeased raiders only.