Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[Xenryusho]

Casualization in terms of difficulty? No.
Casualization in terms of time required to do something? Yes.

The thing that hurt the game the most was the loss of strong social experiences. Those experiences were fostered by the things that were (frankly) though of as bad design. You get infinitely more of the game now that we can queue for dungeons, use LFG/LFR/LFGuild tools, have resources like mmochampion, flying mounts, portals everywhere, easy leveling. The game, design wise, is way better for it. But they never really put in anything that forced the social experiences we had before so everything fell from there.


As an aside, Lol at /r/iamverysmart.

[Deleted]

How is this even a question, ofcourse it is.

When did WoW have it biggest numbers? When did people enjoy WoW the most?

Every expansion where people had a purpose, had a goal in mind to achieve, it all took a long time.

Nowadays Blizzard just gives everything to everyone to keep people happy, but this also draws people away.

As much fun as it is to clear an instance quickly, to gear up to BiS in a few weeks, these are also the things that destroy the game.

For all the people that played back in Vanilla, TBC or even Wotlk.

Clearing an instance, gearing up, doing anything specific in general took a long time.

This also keeps players going and interested in the game, getting stuff handed to you is fun, working months or even years (Vanilla) to achieve these goals gave people a goal and satisfaction when they finally achieved it.

These things all kept players playing the game.

The game in the latest expansion has taken things downhill.

I'm not saying we should go back Vanilla or TBC style (well mayb we should but with harder content, knowing what we know now would make these expansions to easy)
but the style off the game that was used back then was way more interesting then it is now.

The servers back in Vanilla & TBC, we all knew eachother, played against eachother daily, this keeps things fun, you build rivals (opposite factions) or even friends you hung out with.

There is nobody that can say now that they know many people outside their guild, back in the earlier expansions you knew half the server (figure of speech obviously but you get the point)

This is obviously just my point of view, not everyone will agree to this but I for an example had way more fun back in the earlier expansions.

The only time WoW is fun now is on an expansion & content release (which lasts about a few weeks at this point)

This basically comes down to alot of the population having fun for about 1 month in an entire year, causes people to quit or take breaks.

Peace,

I'm out.

[Blayze]

who or what exactly was telling you to go fuck yourselves?

The game, obviously. We had barely any world content until the Molten Front, there was no group content we could steamroll for a laugh while talking shit on TS, and even on 10 Normal raids demanded our bloody souls.

Then Firelands came out, and the 4.0 content received a blanket 20% nerf as if to say "now you casuals can play." My guildies looked at the game, saw Blizzard wanted them to stay a tier behind, and decided "fuck this."

[Archon14]

False. There are bigger problems than how easy the content is.

Look at it this way: Imho, if the game remained the same, and just became harder, there wouldn't be an increase in subs (probably a decrease actually).
If the game was changed somehow at the core, the approach and the new content was better in terms of quality/fun/etc, but the difficulty remained the same, people would come back to wow.
Also, no matter how good the future expansions might be, it's stupid to expect wow to ever return their biggest numbers (or surpass them). This is a very old game, the people changed, the market changed, and there are many reasons as to why wow isn't as popular (or couldn't be in the future) than just game features.

[judgementofantonidas]

I have already addressed there, implicitly, and multiple posts explicitly that I want the content to be more challenging "hard work" for everyone. I do not want it to be child's play for raiders, especially in terms of ruining others' experiences.

if you make solo and small group content other than child's play for raiders it will become impossible for casuals.

- - - Updated - - -

The game, obviously. We had barely any world content until the Molten Front, there was no group content we could steamroll for a laugh while talking shit on TS, and even on 10 Normal raids demanded our bloody souls.

Then Firelands came out, and the 4.0 content received a blanket 20% nerf as if to say "now you casuals can play." My guildies looked at the game, saw Blizzard wanted them to stay a tier behind, and decided "fuck this."

Well, at least for that expansion there was your problem. You should have gone 25 man. It was easier.

[Williamgood]

If anything it's the reverse imo (elitism is caused by the community). People wanting to isolate themselves thinking they are better cause of ilvl and not wanting to help anyone. People can learn from more skilled members, but currently alot of them just say crap about others making this toxic like certain mobas.... Of course there will always be lazy people who don't to experience more.

[Blayze]

Well, at least for that expansion there was your problem. You should have gone 25 man. It was easier.

We didn't have the people, unfortunately.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

It was to a very limited extent... The best rep reward for casters was a blue staff after all. I would caution adding more then one or two pieces like that rather then how saturated they have become.

- - - Updated - - -



This has never been the case... Even WoD had Challenge modes that for a time rewarded good gear on a daily reward. Casuals will decry anything with a bit of challenge as to hard core and flee it.

- - - Updated - - -



Play wild star.

No really its free go play it stop paraphrasing the ign review and try it. I always chuckle when people call wild star hard. Its like calling super hexagon a shooter.

They dropped from world drops, heroic dungeons, reputation vendors, pvp gear, professions, and badge gear. You could buy some off the auction house and quest rewards epics as well but they were really rare.

I see epics... http://wow.gamepedia.com/Burning_Cru...tation_rewards

Here is bis pre-raid epics list for mage's a lot of epics.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/BC_hea...ipment_(cloth)

Warlord's in comparison lacked daily quest and the rewards were even more lackluster. Warrior had even more.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/BC_tan...ment_(warrior)

http://www.wowhead.com/guides/reputa...ation-overview

[Sinyc]

I would probably reverse directly/indirectly but either ways works I guess.

But yeah, I agree with you.

Catchup isin't really letting people see more content because they do it on LFR anyway, it just makes the content zergy and obsolete.

Please start your own company and apply these moronic rules to how your customers can interact or play with your game (or w/e you develop/make).

Not everyone can play each expansion from beginning to end. To punish them instead of trying to get them caught up is so dumb.

[Deleted]

Not everyone can play each expansion from beginning to end. To punish them instead of trying to get them caught up is so dumb.

In some regards the current method of catchup actually punishes more than the tier progress though. Right now you are left in limbo of either being able to get into a heroic group or working very hard catching up through Ashran/Tanaan grinding. Both are extremely patience trying.

If Tiered progress still existed (and I'm not saying there wouldn't be a need for some catchup mechanism to be available) but you'd quickly find yourself at a level that a guild/group who started late and was trying to kill say Blackhand still. You'd be an asset.

To play right now most groups would expect:
Ring (massive grind)
Overgearing (options are Grind Tanaan/Ashran/Boost/Crafted)
Ahead of the Curve (gold or persistence)

This is just to get into most HC-HFC, personally all those things are more of a barrier than say raiding 2 nights a week in the previous tier and working up naturally.

[Osmeric]

In some regards the current method of catchup actually punishes more than the tier progress though. Right now you are left in limbo of either being able to get into a heroic group or working very hard catching up through Ashran/Tanaan grinding. Both are extremely patience trying.

They should have broken HFC into wings, like Flex was in SoO.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

In some regards the current method of catchup actually punishes more than the tier progress though. Right now you are left in limbo of either being able to get into a heroic group or working very hard catching up through Ashran/Tanaan grinding. Both are extremely patience trying.

If Tiered progress still existed (and I'm not saying there wouldn't be a need for some catchup mechanism to be available) but you'd quickly find yourself at a level that a guild/group who started late and was trying to kill say Blackhand still. You'd be an asset.

To play right now most groups would expect:
Ring (massive grind)
Overgearing (options are Grind Tanaan/Ashran/Boost/Crafted)
Ahead of the Curve (gold or persistence)

This is just to get into most HC-HFC, personally all those things are more of a barrier than say raiding 2 nights a week in the previous tier and working up naturally.

You could always acquire the gear and start your own group instead of relying on someone else that helped me a lot in wrath.

[Deleted]

the main problem is that they dumbed everything down and made everything easier and faster to do.
the game requires very little time now, so anyone that play a bit more than a few hours a week run out of content very quickly

the problem is that they're changing the whole game to cater to the people whining about not being able to play WoW anymore because they only have a few hours a week to play the game.
This hurts anyone that can and want to invest time into the game as the only thing they get is Harder raid difficulties which is very dissapointing content.


having a game where investing a lot of time and investing minimum time almost gives the same result is just not rewarding

[Kyriani]

the main problem is that they dumbed everything down and made everything easier and faster to do.
the game requires very little time now, so anyone that play a bit more than a few hours a week run out of content very quickly

the problem is that they're changing the whole game to cater to the people whining about not being able to play WoW anymore because they only have a few hours a week to play the game.
This hurts anyone that can and want to invest time into the game as the only thing they get is Harder raid difficulties which is very dissapointing content.


having a game where investing a lot of time and investing minimum time almost gives the same result is just not rewarding

yea this is something I never understood... blizz did all these things that made clearing content faster... reduced the amount of content they release... and then want to slow us down by removing flight... but somehow it's the players fault things have gone tits up.

[Glorious Leader]

Dungeons, heroic dungeons, dailies, daily zones, new starting zones, new races, reputation grind(killing x amount of mobs), world pvp hubs, world pvp objectives, new battleground, profession bonuses, professions perks like weapons, and arenas.

Wod lack content which was my original point...

More importantly what it did have was basically useless. It offered no significant characther progression that was not immediately dwarfed by raiding at every level.


Lucky enough theirs an incredible simple solution and had this been implemented wod would have "something to do".

Put heroic ilvl tier trinkets and weapons on a vendor purchasable wiling valor

[Alydael]

Play wild star.

No really its free go play it stop paraphrasing the ign review and try it. I always chuckle when people call wild star hard. Its like calling super hexagon a shooter.

I was subbed at launch and was part of the beta. The end game, at the beginning, turned a lot of the player base off. Most of the people I played with quit early and never looked back (even after f2p). I enjoy the game, I just think they screwed themselves by having a bad end game set up at launch. I still think many of their ideas were good and would have been successful, if executed properly.

[Daffan]

Raids have a weekly lockout. If you focus too much on it, or rather, don't give the players any good reason to do anything else, what are they supposed to do with the rest of the time in that week? Most people don't complain about no new raids, most people complain about a general lack of content. World quests, leveling up your artifact and Mythic+ Dungeons will all be things that you can do for quite a while in Legion. Hope it is enough. Mythic+ Dungeons will probably be enough for me personally.

I can imagine when the first content patch comes out and the provide S2 pvp gear and other catchup, a lot of stuff will instantly go bye bye again (like world content, quests, some early prof stuff, first raid)

The start of expansions are always good (always have been) because there is heaps of thing to do and zero catchup.

Raid finder has a delayed release and people do other content beside raiding. I doubt blizzard would waste effort creating content that nobody played.

They have a delayed release just so people cant do it in 1 day bahahahaha

Not everyone can play each expansion from beginning to end. To punish them instead of trying to get them caught up is so dumb.

I don't think you get it.

Sooo they come back and play HFC raid on LFR (yay thankyou catchup) but skip everything else below it, then they complain there is nothing else to do/other then HFC while running around in 710 pvp gear. They make their own bed.

the main problem is that they dumbed everything down and made everything easier and faster to do.
the game requires very little time now, so anyone that play a bit more than a few hours a week run out of content very quickly

the problem is that they're changing the whole game to cater to the people whining about not being able to play WoW anymore because they only have a few hours a week to play the game.
This hurts anyone that can and want to invest time into the game as the only thing they get is Harder raid difficulties which is very dissapointing content.


having a game where investing a lot of time and investing minimum time almost gives the same result is just not rewarding

This is basically spot on legit.

[Deleted]

Voted true but I think the biggest problem is trivializing all older content and Blizzard expecting us to farm only the latest stuff for months because of.. reasons.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I can imagine when the first content patch comes out and the provide S2 pvp gear and other catchup, a lot of stuff will instantly go bye bye again (like world content, quests, some early prof stuff, first raid)

The start of expansions are always good (always have been) because there is heaps of thing to do and zero catchup.



They have a delayed release just so people cant do it in 1 day bahahahaha



I don't think you get it.

Sooo they come back and play HFC raid on LFR (yay thankyou catchup) but skip everything else below it, then they complain there is nothing else to do/other then HFC while running around in 710 pvp gear. They make their own bed.

They have a delayed release so people who want try pursuing normal mode or better can try without being forced to run lfr.

[Glorious Leader]

They have a delayed release so people who want try pursuing normal mode or better can try without being forced to run lfr.

So basically if you run lfr just know that youre a second class piece of shit.

They removed tier
They removed trinkets
They delay it's release so precious raiders don't feel forced

Second Class