The change that will make me quit

[Leyl]

What.

/10char

Precisely my thoughts as Ion has gone on record (Lead Designer) and said swapping talents before fights WAS necessary, and WAS something that is needed and they were ok with. They were also ok with spec swapping too. They advocated even getting gear specifically for that spec as well; which to me is a detriment to the game.

[Deleted]

Dual gear sets is designed towards giving players things to do since WoD in itself has no real content.

[murbaez]

SO they basically want us to think about what talents we are going to use when we are out and about instead of how it is now [at least for me] where i feel like i have to switch talents on a per fight basis to maximize my damage. Well i hope it doesn't go too bad for warriors then cus in order for me not to feel useless on a per engagement basis, i basically switch every single fight.

I literally go through those tomes like a virgin goes through tissue on his favorite porn site. And it's usually a vast difference in performance. It'll be pretty annoying for someone like me. Guess ill have to be pretty good at getting back to fights from hearth. Let raid do trash while i respec lol

[jettzypher]

After playing all week since they made this change, it is not a huge deal. Sure, it was super sweet being able to swap on the fly as I so desired. But with the only restriction requiring being in a rest zone, it's not been an issue once.

If you're in the class of player that really cares about that small percentage dps increase, the cost of having the ability to change out in the field will be negligible to you.

[Cien]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6264?page=4#72

If this change goes live I quit this game. Flat out. I've never seen developers so out of touch with their own game. It's mind boggling.

From Watcher:



They design bosses in raids and dungeons that require us to change our talents to perform optimally, then take that away from us.

Fuck these guys.

please give your gold to the poor on the way out xo xo xo

- - - Updated - - -

It was never intended for you to switch talents to suit the needs of individual boss fights anyway. I personally never need to switch talents - in fact, I've been using the same talents since the beginning of WoD.



Well it looks like you'll just have to adapt to the changes that are inevitably made every time a new expansion is released. I don't buy that this is so big of an issue that people will literally quit the game over it. Sounds like you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

And if you really are leaving because of this, you probably weren't planning on sticking around for much longer anyway.

tl;dr, people quit for silly reasons all the time. This is no different.

im all for bashing the people who are massively overreacting about this change, but, yes it was intended for different boss fight changes, and you've never changed talents since beginning of WoD? was the last time you played since then o.o? wow :O

[Murlocbait]

After playing all week since they made this change, it is not a huge deal. Sure, it was super sweet being able to swap on the fly as I so desired. But with the only restriction requiring being in a rest zone, it's not been an issue once.

If you're in the class of player that really cares about that small percentage dps increase, the cost of having the ability to change out in the field will be negligible to you.

How many nights did you spend raiding in the last week?

[Kakera]

If you quit over a small thing like that you're not a real MMO gamer and the rest of the real community asks that you kindly get the fuck out and let us play the game. Thanks raging OP!

[jettzypher]

How many nights did you spend raiding in the last week?

Zero, because I'm busy testing the beta and giving feedback on things that are broken or working improperly. However, if I had been raiding, I bet I'd have the money and resources required to make changes to my talents while in a raid without complaining about it. *shrug*


Also, why is this in the warrior thread? This is clearly general/beta discussion material as it's not specific to the class.

[lightofdawn]

thats gonna make you quit? how juvenile... give feedback, if enough people do they'll act on it.

or you can just quit. won't affect me at all

[Deleted]

Or feasts instead of individually food buffs?

If you're raiding a five man or LFR you won't have time to swap talents anyway with people chain pulling (and being bored).

If you're doing organized raiding, the entire guild can afford the talent swaps easily.

If you're out in the world doing dailies, visit an Inn for a free swap.

EDIT:

I'm actually for this- there's truth to what they're saying. If you swap to the optimized talent for every encounter, what's the point of having talents at all? Might as well give all talents baseline and it become a question of which abilities you use depending on the fight.

Btw., this is not only an answer to you, but also the guy that asked why it's in the Warrior Forum.

You're right, there's truth to what they're saying. However, they -are- out of touch here. We wouldn't have this problem of optimization, if they'd actually balance talents/talent choices for all Classes equally and would actually provide choices that do NOT entirely gate your ability to properly participate in huge parts of basic Encounter design (ST, AoE, Execute). Or in short - if they'd finally provide talents that do not enable you to become mediocre at X while becoming shit at y and z. Stuff that actually changes your playstyle, but only has minor impact on your overall performance across the board (Example: Inner Rage for Fury Warriors, albeit it's actually a performance changer as well -.-).

As of right now, Warriors for example have an entire row that consists of..
1.) The talent that enables you to even have a proper Execute Rotation that doesn't feel entirely shit.
2.) A Talent that (almost) rewards you for being completely shit (Ragecapping).
3.) A Talent that makes your AoE not suck ass.

As long as this kind of Talent design is a thing, it will only frustrate us further instead of being something we'd appreciate or agree with.

As I said - I like the idea behind the change in theory, but it - again - completely fucks us over and Blizzard's Class Design Team doesn't seem to do shit about it, as our (Warriors) complaints have been smashing against an unnecessary brickwall of silence for build upon build.

- - - Updated - - -

thats gonna make you quit? how juvenile... give feedback, if enough people do they'll act on it.

or you can just quit. won't affect me at all

Politely ask us Warriors about that bolded part. You'd be surprised.

[lightofdawn]

Politely ask us Warriors about that bolded part. You'd be surprised.

maybe i would... but it would have to be the majority of warriors who have a problem with whatever you're referencing to voice their opinions. not just the vocal few

[Archimtiros]

maybe i would... but it would have to be the majority of warriors who have a problem with whatever you're referencing to voice their opinions. not just the vocal few

Therein lies the rub doesn't it? There's always been a fallacy with that argument; if they aren't vocal, how do you know what they want?

• Are they for the current standard?
• Are they actually against it?
• Are they indifferent?
• Is there even a majority among them?

You don't know these things, precisely because they are silent. Therefore, it's not just misleading to immediately assume that silence = consent, it's flat out wrong. Should we apply this concept to politics as well, and if I don't vote, a +1 automatically be assigned to the majority, simply because I didn't speak out against it? I should hope not.

I subscribe to the third theory; if they don't voice their opinion, they are indifferent. If they aren't indifferent, it's their obligation to get involved lest decisions be made without them.

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6264?page=4#72

If this change goes live I quit this game. Flat out. I've never seen developers so out of touch with their own game. It's mind boggling.

From Watcher:



They design bosses in raids and dungeons that require us to change our talents to perform optimally, then take that away from us.

Fuck these guys.

I'm personally beyond the point in caring because I personally liked the talents before MOP, but yeah totally agree that this conflicts directly with their current design.

Also safe places exclude arena also? Because if so that is equally as retarded.

[lightofdawn]

Therein lies the rub doesn't it? There's always been a fallacy with that argument; if they aren't vocal, how do you know what they want?

• Are they for the current standard?
• Are they actually against it?
• Are they indifferent?
• Is there even a majority among them?

You don't know these things, precisely because they are silent. Therefore, it's not just misleading to immediately assume that silence = consent, it's flat out wrong. Should we apply this concept to politics as well, and if I don't vote, a +1 automatically be assigned to the majority, simply because I didn't speak out against it? I should hope not.

I subscribe to the third theory; if they don't voice their opinion, they are indifferent. If they aren't indifferent, it's their obligation to get involved lest decisions be made without them.

i understand, and agree with you for the most part. that's not the point of the thread though.

if someone would quit over this small predicament, they're not the type of person i'd want to play an mmo with anyway

[Archimtiros]

i understand, and agree with you for the most part. that's not the point of the thread though.

if someone would quit over this small predicament, they're not the type of person i'd want to play an mmo with anyway

It's not the point of the thread, but it was a response to your comment that "it would have to be the majority of warriors who have a problem with whatever you're referencing to voice their opinions. not just the vocal few", and how that is a failure of reasoning.

Personally I don't give a damn about the change, the only thing it adds for me is annoyance factor, because I understand how economies work.

[Beardyface]

So, for all of you folks so kindly showing me the door: what change could the devs make that would finally may you stop and say "enough!"?

This thread has nothing to do with the change itself. It has to do with what the change tells us about the devs. If they really are this obtuse, what else might they change?

What if they took all the interaction between Fury's abilities away? Would that do it? "Right," you say, "they won't do that." No? There's precedent. See WoD Arms.

What if they redesigned Arms to be so counterintuitive that absolutely no one, including the top Arms players in the world, could figure out their intent? "Pfft. Okay," you say. I point you to Legion Brewmaster.

What if they designed a class that actually gets weaker the more gear you get during any raid tier? "Oh, come on," you say, "that's just ludicrous." Really? Are you sure about that? Because that's how Protection Warrior works.

What if they took away flying? Oops, they did that, didn't they? Anyone remember what happened? Droves of people threatened to quit over that. Many did. Flying is cosmetic. It does nothing to change the gameplay. If we could never fly again I would care not a whit.

Or how about bringing back hit, expertise and defense rating? I give you: Rage from Damage Taken.

These devs have done nothing for the past three years but make bad decisions, starting with "your class doesn't need to be fun on a dummy" and ending with the change that started this thread.

When are you going to say "enough! I'm wasting my time with these guys!"?

[Murlocbait]

Zero, because I'm busy testing the beta and giving feedback on things that are broken or working improperly. However, if I had been raiding, I bet I'd have the money and resources required to make changes to my talents while in a raid without complaining about it. *shrug*


Also, why is this in the warrior thread? This is clearly general/beta discussion material as it's not specific to the class.

So you didn't do the types of content in which this change WILL be an issue (mythic dungeons and raids), yet you can assert that it's not a big deal based on your experiences? See the problem here?

And it's a warrior thread because the fucking garbage talent tier design we're being given in Legion means this change is worse for us than some other classes (though we're far from the only ones). Decent warriors spent WoD changing talents between every fight, and Legion isn't going to change that. So this idiotic, bullshit change is directly impacting us - hence why it was posted here where it is relevant.

[Daita Tetsu]

I read the change as
"having the freedom to change your talents at any time was too overwhelming for our target audience and presented an unfair advantage to players who were.. capable. In the spirit of equality, we have removed these options."

Luckily for me at least there were plenty of changes before this.. a very long time ago, that all future retarded wow changes wont affect me

oh well, legion is going to be the greatest expansion ever made. Just like every other expansion was pre release

[Murlocbait]

oh well, legion is going to be the greatest expansion ever made. Just like every other expansion was pre release

What frustrates me so much is there are a lot of things in Legion that i really like. A lot of stuff that gets me excited and makes me want to come back. But, there are also so many dumbshit decisions being made, that it just knocks the wind right out of that excitement.

[jettzypher]

So you didn't do the types of content in which this change WILL be an issue (mythic dungeons and raids), yet you can assert that it's not a big deal based on your experiences? See the problem here?

You assume that I do not or have not taken part in that level of gamepaly. You would be wrong.