[speculation] So why was C&C: Generals 2 cancelled?

[Slaughty8]

Total war: Warhammer says hi!

Total War is an example of a 4X RTS/TBS(turn based strategy) It is RTS+TBS but belongs to 4X subcategory. But yeah, Total War is doing great.

The era of classical RTS is probably over and there are only 3 RTS that are popular right now:
1. StarCraft
2. Warhammer 40 000 Dawn of War 1, 2 and upcoming 3
3. Company of Heroes 1 and 2

The rest are unfortunatelly niche. Example? The not so long ago released Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak - it has positive reviews and opinions but only 80,302 ± 7,051 owners according to steamspy
Grey Goo? Owners: 200,026 ± 11,126 (but keep in mind the game had free weekend so the data may not be reliable).

Now mostly 4X Strategy games and TBS games are selling well. Which means the market has changed into 4X as a mainstream and non-4X as a niche.

[I Push Buttons]

Total War is an example of a 4X RTS/TBS(turn based strategy) It is RTS+TBS but belongs to 4X subcategory. But yeah, Total War is doing great.

The era of classical RTS is probably over and there are only 3 RTS that are popular right now:
1. StarCraft
2. Warhammer 40 000 Dawn of War 1, 2 and upcoming 3
3. Company of Heroes 1 and 2

The rest are unfortunatelly niche. Example? The not so long ago released Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak - it has positive reviews and opinions but only 80,302 ± 7,051 owners according to steamspy
Grey Goo? Owners: 200,026 ± 11,126 (but keep in mind the game had free weekend so the data may not be reliable).

Now mostly 4X Strategy games and TBS games are selling well. Which means the market has changed into 4X as a mainstream and non-4X as a niche.

Outside of Civ 5 and marginally Civ BE (sold like shit compared to Civ 5, but still moved like 1.5m or something), I can't think of any 4x games selling well. Even the likes of Stardock, who got started in 4x, their RTS game Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion has outsold Galactic Civilizations 3 nearly 4 to 1.

Granted, Rebellion has been out a lot longer, but most of the sales for any given game come at its launch...

Rebellion is a very good RTS though. It sells itself as 4x, but that is silly, it is RTS.

[Slaughty8]

Outside of Civ 5 and marginally Civ BE (sold like shit compared to Civ 5, but still moved like 1.5m or something), I can't think of any 4x games selling well. Even the likes of Stardock, who got started in 4x, their RTS game Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion has outsold Galactic Civilizations 3 nearly 4 to 1.

Granted, Rebellion has been out a lot longer, but most of the sales for any given game come at its launch...

Rebellion is a very good RTS though. It sells itself as 4x, but that is silly, it is RTS.

Alright, lets make a list then Basing on steamspy data we have:

Sid Meier's Civilization V 8,724,242 ± 72,442 owners
Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth 1,342,104 ± 28,767 owners
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion 794,588 ± 22,155 owners
Stellaris 354,141 ±14,801 owners so far
Endless Legend 749,326 ± 21,516 owners
Endless Space 965,737 ± 24,418 owners
Galactic Civilizations III 231,336 ± 11,965 owners
Master of Orion 72,678 ± 6,708 owners
Anno 2070 815,515 ± 22,444 owners
Age of Wonders III 455,696 ± 16,787 owners
Polaris Sector 8,922 ± 2,350 owners
Total War: Shogun 2 2,792,575 ± 41,396 owners
Total War: Attila 717,368 ± 21,053 owners
Europa Universalis IV has 946,108 ± 24,169 owners
Crusader Kings II has 1,265,046 ± 27,933 owners

New notable 4X titles coming this year (2016):
Stellaris (just released not so long ago)
Total War: Warhammer
Civilization IV
Endless Legend 2
Master of Orion: Conquer the Stars

[Mascotte]

The Total War series isn't even remotely close. Is it RTS? Sure. Is it ANYTHING like C&C? No. Most RTS fans want more C&C, and less MOBA and Total War.

Not alot of RTS fans left..
Besides, the C&C line took massive hits with C&C4 and that mobile version that was just plain horrible.
Generals wasn't even that good, Zero Hour was tho AFTER they patched the living hell out of it.
Zero Hour release was a major clusterfuck..

[Deleted]

Your right, Total War is doing just fine, hadn't thought of those but they are a very different game compared to C&C, Starcraft, Grey Goo, Act of Agression and who knows what other dead games have been released in recent years. (not that SC2 was doa but it has taken a big big nose dive since then).

Not sure how you define "dead games" when you list SC2 there......twitch viewers?

The problem with most RTS nowadays is that they are bad, that's really the only problem.
Take a look at Supreme Commander: FA for example, it has a userscore of 96%
Then look at Supreme Commander 2 - which not only looks worse, it's also not even nearly as deep as the original. I don't understand what RTS designers are trying to do nowadays.

[I Push Buttons]

Alright, lets make a list then Basing on steamspy data we have:

Sid Meier's Civilization V 8,724,242 ± 72,442 owners
Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth 1,342,104 ± 28,767 owners
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion 794,588 ± 22,155 owners
Stellaris 354,141 ±14,801 owners so far
Endless Legend 749,326 ± 21,516 owners
Endless Space 965,737 ± 24,418 owners
Galactic Civilizations III 231,336 ± 11,965 owners
Master of Orion 72,678 ± 6,708 owners
Anno 2070 815,515 ± 22,444 owners
Age of Wonders III 455,696 ± 16,787 owners
Polaris Sector 8,922 ± 2,350 owners
Total War: Shogun 2 2,792,575 ± 41,396 owners
Total War: Attila 717,368 ± 21,053 owners

New notable 4X titles coming this year (2016):
Stellaris (just released not so long ago)
Total War: Warhammer
Civilization IV
Endless Legend 2
Master of Orion: Conquer the Stars

You forgot Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis, but anywho apart from Civ 5, RTS and 4X are rather even in sales. There are just a lot more 4X games because they are simpler to make in that they don't have to make fancy graphics, animations, models, etc due to it not being "real time" and being confined primarily to a map of some kind, with Total War being the exception...

[Slaughty8]

You forgot Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis, but anywho apart from Civ 5, RTS and 4X are rather even in sales. There are just a lot more 4X games because they are simpler to make in that they don't have to make fancy graphics, animations, models, etc due to it not being "real time" and being confined primarily to a map of some kind, with Total War being the exception...

omg me Yes, I forgot these two titles, so updated my post:
Europa Universalis IV has 946,108 ± 24,169 owners
Crusader Kings II has 1,265,046 ± 27,933 owners

that's alot. But yeah, there are more 4X than RTS. Also 4X are easier to play, they are more peaceful and calm gaming experience.

[Blazur]

I just picked up all the civ games from the steam sale about a week ago and haven't played anything else since. Its like Age of Empires or Rise of Nations except turn based and with loads more depth. I'd give it a try if you haven't already

[Deleted]

They are derived from the RTS genre, so technically they are. In fact I find RTS a way better description of the genre they belong to than MOBA.

MOBA will never be RTS and calling MOBA = RTS shows you never played RTS.

ANd yes its sad that from all the rts only blizzard is left because EA ruined westwood....


Gosh the hours of funs I had playing C&C in Lan with friends back in the days when that meant you brought 8 pcs and monitors to one place to play a lan-party

- - - Updated - - -

Generals wasn't even that good, Zero Hour was tho AFTER they patched the living hell out of it.
Zero Hour release was a major clusterfuck..

hu?? Genrals & Zero Hour are/where AWSOME....

Besides, the C&C line took massive hits with C&C4 and that mobile version that was just plain horrible.

Mobile Version? can you enlighten me on that?
But yeah c&c4 had probably to much ea influenced cause it never felt like the c&cs before....

[Deleted]

The absolutely horrifying handling of the CnC brand and destruction of it's developer is one of the two primary reasons (Dragon age 2's general shite-ness being the other) that essentially started my policy of not giving EA a single cent.

Their horrible handprints were all over CnC all the way back in the terribly wonky and hype-disappointing launch of Tib-Sun, through towards the final destination with Tib Twilight. They had their outliers and they actually TRIED to do something with the brand at EALA, but I honestly think that Electronic Fucking Arts destroyed that type of RTS entirely with their aggressive missmanagement.

Thank fuck Relic is still going, as Blizzards RTS are now so laser-focus tuned on multiplayer skill-tests that they feel uncomfortable to play single player and skirmish.

[Zogarth]

MOBA will never be RTS and calling MOBA = RTS shows you never played RTS.

ANd yes its sad that from all the rts only blizzard is left because EA ruined westwood....

Why i did not call them classic RTS games. Games like Dota got aspects of RTS from a gameplay standpoint, which fullfulls some peoples itch for strategy games. And I have played a shitload of RTS games, my childhood was pretty much spend having friends over playing old Command and Conquer games. Of of my favorite game of all time is Emperor: Battle for Dune, which I have played for i don't know how many hours with my brother.

[McNeil]

After the disaster that was C&C4, the studio responsible for that game disbanded and we haven't heard C&C news ever since. Then it took forever till we heard something new. They made a new studio that was working on the next C&C game, and basically waited another year to even announce what it is. At first the game looked promising, but then they announced that they switch the game from B2P to F2P, which caused a lot of people to get angry over it and its future.

I played the very early alpha of this game, and while it still needed some work it was actually well polished and played really well. But there were obviously some balance issues, like the APA's air units were to OP in groups. I'd say the game itself was fine for multiplayer mode, and they even announced that they'd make campaigns in the future. Some good things to hear about this game..... and then suddenly EA announced that the game gets cancelled.

They've never really said any reason for its cancellation, Victory Games simply said ''we weren't making the game you wanted'', but there's probably more ebhind it. It could be that the RTS genre for its time just isn't profitable enough, and the game has gotten pretty expensive to make and maintain. Or it could be because of all the negativity towards their change to F2P mode, which just didn't die out.

A huge pity, this game could've been a great competitor against SC2 in the multiplayer scene. They needed that competition, badly. But the worst thing is that there's still no new C&C campaign after 6 years, and there's nothing in the works as of yet. If ear that C&C has finally been laid to rest, maybe its for the better. The ebst C&C games to be found are all mods by the community, I especially like Renegade X.

Mobile Version? can you enlighten me on that?
But yeah c&c4 had probably to much ea influenced cause it never felt like the c&cs before....

Tiberium Alliances is a F2P browser game. It takes place between C&C3 and C&C4, using most of the units from C&C3 with some C&C4 stuff in it. You can choose your faction, either GDI or Nod, and they have some different playstyles. Then you build a base, start farming resources to upgrade your base, make an army and build defenses. You can find an Alliance of other players to join and compete for missions.

I've played it myself when it came out, but eventually got bored as the shinyness wears off when you do the same thing every day after that point. Its still a bit of a grindy/waiting game like you'd expect from most of these kind of games.

[Nerraw]

After the disaster that was C&C4, the studio responsible for that game disbanded

The studio was disbanded before then. They knew months before the game shipped that they'd be shut down after they were done with it.

[Bigbazz]

The absolutely horrifying handling of the CnC brand and destruction of it's developer is one of the two primary reasons (Dragon age 2's general shite-ness being the other) that essentially started my policy of not giving EA a single cent.

Their horrible handprints were all over CnC all the way back in the terribly wonky and hype-disappointing launch of Tib-Sun, through towards the final destination with Tib Twilight. They had their outliers and they actually TRIED to do something with the brand at EALA, but I honestly think that Electronic Fucking Arts destroyed that type of RTS entirely with their aggressive missmanagement.

Thank fuck Relic is still going, as Blizzards RTS are now so laser-focus tuned on multiplayer skill-tests that they feel uncomfortable to play single player and skirmish.

What was wrong with Tiberian Sun? I loved that game, man when I saw the Ghost dude for the first time and the Mammoth Tank MK2, not to mention when you get to command the old original Mammoth tank, the single player campaign at least was great with some awesome missions and I think the units made for some great play.

GDI for me though. I have CNC3 but never enjoyed so much, Red Alert 3 I still play.

[Guy4123]

Because EA has a fetish for raising hopes and then crushing dreams.

Not like they can be trusted with a C&C game again after 4 anyway.

[Arcanimus]

Because EA has a fetish for raising hopes and then crushing dreams.

This. They also couldn't find a way to put microtransactions in without royally fucking over the modding community.

[Mormolyce]

Remember back in the glory days of RTS when Warcraft and Starcraft and C&C ruled the world, and there was even room for Total Annihilation and Dark Reign and many competitors?

These days RTS is a niche though. I suspect that's why, along with the demise of Westwood and several successor studios that worked on C&C.

- - - Updated - - -

What was wrong with Tiberian Sun? I loved that game, man when I saw the Ghost dude for the first time and the Mammoth Tank MK2, not to mention when you get to command the old original Mammoth tank, the single player campaign at least was great with some awesome missions and I think the units made for some great play.

GDI for me though. I have CNC3 but never enjoyed so much, Red Alert 3 I still play.

I liked the TS cutscenes, but found the gameplay less fun than the original C&C personally.

[Heathy]

My go to RTS is still Supcom FA with total mayhem. its a little buggy and the ai can be rather stupid at times but as far as that whole, build base, build huge army, create meat grinder thing I haven't found a better alternative. I mean i loved red alert and classic C&C, didn't play a whole lot of the later games, Tiberian Sun I played a lot on lan, but supcom fa is just red alert, on steroids.

I should really update ashes and see how its progressed.

[KOMO1211]

Remember back in the glory days of RTS when Warcraft and Starcraft and C&C ruled the world, and there was even room for Total Annihilation and Dark Reign and many competitors?

These days RTS is a niche though. I suspect that's why, along with the demise of Westwood and several successor studios that worked on C&C.

- - - Updated - - -



I liked the TS cutscenes, but found the gameplay less fun than the original C&C personally.

TS will always be better then the originals for finally bringing the ability to QUEUE units and buildings into the series.

[Gilgemesh]

RTS ports badly to consoles, and these days, a game that's been on the shelf so long must have console support to sell enough copies to justify development time.
Even if this became a PC only release, RTS games are falling to the wayside terribly easily. So it's just a gamble, even for the money hungry ea.