Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Gavan]

If Pristine servers were a proven point, then you might have something. Problem is they failed consistently in polls, here and elsewhere. Even on the WoW official forums people thought it was a bad idea. But that's what happens when a company tries to decide what is best, ignoring the considerations of those who want to play their game, but choose not to, under current circumstances.

If the meeting is only a PR move and Blizzard intends to say no, there is going to be more uprising, and more PR issues.

Not sure about Overwatch, but the movie seems to be something I'd watch on cable, Netflix, or for free - meh.

It's not in their best interest to go through the Legacy motions, increase awareness along the way, just to say no. It could potentially go from bad to very bad. The upcoming meeting itself has raised awareness over social sites. If a "no" was their intent all along, then I anticipate some Blizzard personnel to get fired over this.

This...

No amount of PR is going to change my opinion on this subject or make me want to buy anything else from Blizzard or support them in any way other than Legacy. They do the right thing, then they get me (and I'm sure a lot of others) back as customers.

[Thimagryn]

This...

No amount of PR is going to change my opinion on this subject or make me want to buy anything else from Blizzard or support them in any way other than Legacy. They do the right thing, then they get me (and I'm sure a lot of others) back as customers.

Yes but there's no indication that your support even matters now. Blizzard's been doing absolutely fine (financially despite sub drops) without our support. This is really out of our hands and not our decision to make, and the big question is whether Blizz think it's worth it to undertake.

And I really wouldn't count out pristine servers quite yet. Sure, polls on it suck and all this other stuff. But guess what, polls on LFR sucks too, yet it's a feature that's used by the thousands who don't care about polls.

[Pann]

If Pristine servers were a proven point, then you might have something. Problem is they failed consistently in polls, here and elsewhere. Even on the WoW official forums people thought it was a bad idea. But that's what happens when a company tries to decide what is best, ignoring the considerations of those who want to play their game, but choose not to, under current circumstances.

If the meeting is only a PR move and Blizzard intends to say no, there is going to be more uprising, and more PR issues.

Not sure about Overwatch, but the movie seems to be something I'd watch on cable, Netflix, or for free - meh.

It's not in their best interest to go through the Legacy motions, increase awareness along the way, just to say no. It could potentially go from bad to very bad. The upcoming meeting itself has raised awareness over social sites. If a "no" was their intent all along, then I anticipate some Blizzard personnel to get fired over this.

People thinking pristine servers are a bad idea is neither here nor there there is no advantage to Blizzard keeping quiet about legacy servers if they planned to introduce them they would have said so by now.

They have already said no to legacy servers but they will talk about what great meeting they had and how many great ideas they discussed but they are busy with the movie/legion launch and will need time to think about them. As for further uprisings the campaign for legacy servers is already running out of steam give it a couple of months and a new expansion and the majority of people will have moved on.

Blizzard and Legendary are invested to tune of several tens of millions of dollars in the movie they do not want any Warcraft related distractions.

You're reading far too much into these meetings they aren't going through the legacy motions, they've already said no and offered an alternative in the form of pristine realms.

[Vineri]

People thinking pristine servers are a bad idea is neither here nor there there is no advantage to Blizzard keeping quiet about legacy servers if they planned to introduce them they would have said so by now.

They have already said no to legacy servers but they will talk about what great meeting they had and how many great ideas they discussed but they are busy with the movie/legion launch and will need time to think about them. As for further uprisings the campaign for legacy servers is already running out of steam give it a couple of months and a new expansion and the majority of people will have moved on.

Blizzard and Legendary are invested to tune of several tens of millions of dollars in the movie they do not want any Warcraft related distractions.

You're reading far too much into these meetings they aren't going through the legacy motions, they've already said no and offered an alternative in the form of pristine realms.

No, they didn't.

I'd go by the Developers last Discussion Webcast.

About 30 mins in, Ion mentioned that he was a fan of Vanilla, but matters regarding Legacy were out of his scope, since he is a developer, not a decision maker. He referred to the latest official blue post as the current stance (although that could be modified after the upcoming Nostalrius-Blizzard conference, but still undecided pending the conference). The conference was mentioned in the Blue post. I would have referred to that blue post too if I wanted to keep my job and not go off-the-record while live streaming

So Legacy is not really ruled out. There was not a "no". Wishy washy might be a valid claim, as well as passing the buck, but not a "no".

The Dev's then went on about Pristine, but that sounds really drab in comparison, sorry devs, it's lame

EDIT:
webcast: https://www.twitch.tv/warcraft
(To any interested)

[Thimagryn]

Which goes back to the matter of who the actual decision makes are - corporate. And it really hammers the point that people like Mike Morhaime will have all the more say on the matter than any of the Devs and what they've communicated so far. In order for Legacy to move forward, there has to be a motivating reason for corporate to move forward; not just the whims and fancies of we who want to see Legacy.

And please, can we move on from the Pristine bashing? I don't care much about Project60 either, but there are people who are like it and it doesn't stop me from letting them enjoying it. If Blizzard wants to put in servers that are 'hardcore', then so be it. Why hate on it any more than you would hate Legacy? We all understand it's not a replacement for it.

[Arrowset]

This...

No amount of PR is going to change my opinion on this subject or make me want to buy anything else from Blizzard or support them in any way other than Legacy. They do the right thing, then they get me (and I'm sure a lot of others) back as customers.

Same here. I used to love WoW, and I threw money at Blizzard for all kinds of transfers, faction changes, mounts, etc. I am more than willing to do it again if they bring legacy servers back.

Heck, they don't even have to do the work- just license some of the more reputable private servers to do it for them. How can that possibly not be a money-making proposition for Blizzard?

[Gadzooks]

Yes but there's no indication that your support even matters now. Blizzard's been doing absolutely fine (financially despite sub drops) without our support. This is really out of our hands and not our decision to make, and the big question is whether Blizz think it's worth it to undertake.

And I really wouldn't count out pristine servers quite yet. Sure, polls on it suck and all this other stuff. But guess what, polls on LFR sucks too, yet it's a feature that's used by the thousands who don't care about polls.

You do understand that you're talking to a small group of people who think their opinion and needs are more important than anything else, right? Any rational person, even a teenager, would simply have said 'that sucks" when Brack posted...and moved on.

While I find it hilarious, they all remind me of Lt. Steve in "Good Morning Vietnam" ("Sir, in my heart, I know I'm funny.")(it's that level of delusional denial) the truth is, the uproar isn't that big. Not that many people care. Not enough to matter. Those in denial WANT it to be big, but in the grand scheme of things...it's not that big. You won't buy a sub unless there's legacy servers? Well, too bad. Blizzard will survive without you. They have so far.

The reality is, the hard core, stone cold, cannot deny reality is that it's just a video game. It's not worth expending this much energy over. Your life will not end, or be severely impacted if there are never legacy servers. It's not that important. It just isn't. But a small and mouthy group of people here insist it is, and have gone to great - if not seriously questionable - lengths to make the existence of legacy servers seem as important as solving world peace.

It's just not that big a deal.

So let them rage. They're not going to stop, anyway. Blizzard might lose 100k players, max, out of this - how many did they lose over WOD? And if they continue running around acting like spoiled children, throwing tantrums, stamping their feet, and crying and sniveling about it, the less likely it is Blizzard will cater to them. They cared enough to offer pristine realms, but the reaction of the legacy crowd, and their red-faced "fuck you!' reaction? That means it's less likely Blizzard will put forward any more effort towards this. But the delusional think they're winning - and that's just more entertainment for the eventual tantrum when they're denied again, like they will be.

And, yes, I'll be called a "bully" and mean and all kinds of names as they snivel about this post - but that's fine. But why waste your time making rational comments, to the irrational?


PS - I've yet to see anyone tell us what magical things will happen in these meetings with Nost and Kern. What information they hold, that Blizzard needs, to make the path clear for legacy servers, what mythical thing they need to learn. We're expected to believe that simply meeting will change the reality of the situation. Sorry, but that's magic, irrational thinking, like children do. I know, as an adult, there's nothing Blizzard needs from either group to change their stance on the matter. That's common sense. But here we are, and it's still "Thu meetingz!", which no indication of what might actually happen in them. It's irrational. It's loony tunes. It's typical, for this crowd.

I don't have a problem with someone wanting to play legacy. I even don't really care if they play any illegal servers, just don't come running and complaining if it gets shut down. But it's the bizarre conspiracy theories, bad data, hopeless magical thinking and sheer unadulterated obnoxious belligerence that makes this thread entertaining. Not all people who want legacy servers are like that - but the toxic ones are concentrated here, and they make everyone else look really bad.

[Struggle]

Which goes back to the matter of who the actual decision makes are - corporate. And it really hammers the point that people like Mike Morhaime will have all the more say on the matter than any of the Devs and what they've communicated so far. In order for Legacy to move forward, there has to be a motivating reason for corporate to move forward; not just the whims and fancies of we who want to see Legacy.

And please, can we move on from the Pristine bashing? I don't care much about Project60 either, but there are people who are like it and it doesn't stop me from letting them enjoying it. If Blizzard wants to put in servers that are 'hardcore', then so be it. Why hate on it any more than you would hate Legacy? We all understand it's not a replacement for it.

Pristine bashing is fine because the vast majority don't want it. The pro-legacy crowd has said it's a terrible idea, and the people who currently play live said on their official forums that it's a bad idea. All majority.

If you think Pristine is a good idea in the sense that it's worth spending money on over Legacy, that's a very minority opinion in this debate.

[Vineri]

You do understand that you're talking to a small group of people who think their opinion and needs are more important than anything else, right? Any rational person, even a teenager, would simply have said 'that sucks" when Brack posted...and moved on.

While I find it hilarious, they all remind me of Lt. Steve in "Good Morning Vietnam" ("Sir, in my heart, I know I'm funny.")(it's that level of delusional denial) the truth is, the uproar isn't that big. Not that many people care. Not enough to matter. Those in denial WANT it to be big, but in the grand scheme of things...it's not that big. You won't buy a sub unless there's legacy servers? Well, too bad. Blizzard will survive without you. They have so far.

The reality is, the hard core, stone cold, cannot deny reality is that it's just a video game. It's not worth expending this much energy over. Your life will not end, or be severely impacted if there are never legacy servers. It's not that important. It just isn't. But a small and mouthy group of people here insist it is, and have gone to great - if not seriously questionable - lengths to make the existence of legacy servers seem as important as solving world peace.

It's just not that big a deal.

So let them rage. They're not going to stop, anyway. Blizzard might lose 100k players, max, out of this - how many did they lose over WOD? And if they continue running around acting like spoiled children, throwing tantrums, stamping their feet, and crying and sniveling about it, the less likely it is Blizzard will cater to them. They cared enough to offer pristine realms, but the reaction of the legacy crowd, and their red-faced "fuck you!' reaction? That means it's less likely Blizzard will put forward any more effort towards this. But the delusional think they're winning - and that's just more entertainment for the eventual tantrum when they're denied again, like they will be.

And, yes, I'll be called a "bully" and mean and all kinds of names as they snivel about this post - but that's fine. But why waste your time making rational comments, to the irrational?


PS - I've yet to see anyone tell us what magical things will happen in these meetings with Nost and Kern. What information they hold, that Blizzard needs, to make the path clear for legacy servers, what mythical thing they need to learn. We're expected to believe that simply meeting will change the reality of the situation. Sorry, but that's magic, irrational thinking, like children do. I know, as an adult, there's nothing Blizzard needs from either group to change their stance on the matter. That's common sense. But here we are, and it's still "Thu meetingz!", which no indication of what might actually happen in them. It's irrational. It's loony tunes. It's typical, for this crowd.

I don't have a problem with someone wanting to play legacy. I even don't really care if they play any illegal servers, just don't come running and complaining if it gets shut down. But it's the bizarre conspiracy theories, bad data, hopeless magical thinking and sheer unadulterated obnoxious belligerence that makes this thread entertaining. Not all people who want legacy servers are like that - but the toxic ones are concentrated here, and they make everyone else look really bad.

You do understand that you're talking to a small group of people who think their opinion and needs are more important than anything else, right?

Is this a small group, or just you wishing it were a small group? From your other posts, I'd say you hate Legacy enough to try to convince others it were a small group.

Any rational person, even a teenager, would simply have said 'that sucks" when Brack posted...and moved on.

Only uneducated people would leave without getting the facts first. I supposed that is why people are still here?

< SNIP all the unfunny movie quotes that don't apply > Those in denial WANT it to be big, but in the grand scheme of things...it's not that big. You won't buy a sub unless there's legacy servers? Well, too bad.

You are really out of touch. Polls show people will spend money. I will spend money. Are you really naive enough to think people on 3rd party servers like starting over whenever Blizzard shuts one down? If you offer a choice, sure they will say FOR FREE! .. but when it comes down to something or nothing, they will pay.

The reality is, the hard core, stone cold, cannot deny reality is that it's just a video game. It's not worth expending this much energy over. Your life will not end, or be severely impacted if there are never legacy servers. It's not that important. It just isn't. But a small and mouthy group of people here insist it is, and have gone to great - if not seriously questionable - lengths to make the existence of legacy servers seem as important as solving world peace.

This quote from you is BIZARRE!!!! Replace the word Legacy with Retail, and that sums up why you are here - essentially, for no reason. The small and mouthy group is the anti-Legacy, IMO.

It's just not that big a deal.

Why even post then?

So let them rage. They're not going to stop, anyway. Blizzard might lose 100k players, max, out of this - how many did they lose over WOD? And if they continue running around acting like spoiled children, throwing tantrums, stamping their feet, and crying and sniveling about it, the less likely it is Blizzard will cater to them. They cared enough to offer pristine realms, but the reaction of the legacy crowd, and their red-faced "fuck you!' reaction? That means it's less likely Blizzard will put forward any more effort towards this. But the delusional think they're winning - and that's just more entertainment for the eventual tantrum when they're denied again, like they will be.

It seems only anti-Legacy folks resort to your level of insults. You have no clue as to what goes on in Blizzard, don't try to pretend.

And, yes, I'll be called a "bully" and mean and all kinds of names as they snivel about this post - but that's fine. But why waste your time making rational comments, to the irrational?

From the hostility you spew, yes, you are a bully. You are angry, it shows.

PS - I've yet to see anyone tell us what magical things will happen in these meetings with Nost and Kern. What information they hold, that Blizzard needs, to make the path clear for legacy servers, what mythical thing they need to learn. We're expected to believe that simply meeting will change the reality of the situation. Sorry, but that's magic, irrational thinking, like children do. I know, as an adult, there's nothing Blizzard needs from either group to change their stance on the matter. That's common sense. But here we are, and it's still "Thu meetingz!", which no indication of what might actually happen in them. It's irrational. It's loony tunes. It's typical, for this crowd.

Drunken banter?

I don't have a problem with someone wanting to play legacy. I even don't really care if they play any illegal servers, just don't come running and complaining if it gets shut down. But it's the bizarre conspiracy theories, bad data, hopeless magical thinking and sheer unadulterated obnoxious belligerence that makes this thread entertaining. Not all people who want legacy servers are like that - but the toxic ones are concentrated here, and they make everyone else look really bad.

Toxic is what you bring to this thread (thread history if evidence needed). Legacy folks don't insult like you do. But according to your own statement, anyone who posts Legacy is Toxic (concentrated here after all), since anyone who complains should not post here, right? Just don't come running and complaining .. they should not even discuss it, right? what you said, see what you said.

You are a hypocrite. The very definition of one.

[Relapses]

Pristine bashing is fine because the vast majority don't want it. The pro-legacy crowd has said it's a terrible idea, and the people who currently play live said on their official forums that it's a bad idea. All majority.

If you think Pristine is a good idea in the sense that it's worth spending money on over Legacy, that's a very minority opinion in this debate.

A minority opinion, yes, but still seemingly far more likely to happen than Legacy realms.

[irdsyd]

I want legacy and pristine. I see them as two very different things. The problem is pristine was offered as a substitute for legacy - hence it isn't considered separately on its merits. Because of this history Pristine servers should only be considered once Legacy servers are delivered. Yes Id play (and pay to play) a legacy server - not sure for how long. For current content I'd love a pristine server that tried to foster a realm based community.

[Thimagryn]

Pristine bashing is fine because the vast majority don't want it. The pro-legacy crowd has said it's a terrible idea, and the people who currently play live said on their official forums that it's a bad idea. All majority.

If you think Pristine is a good idea in the sense that it's worth spending money on over Legacy, that's a very minority opinion in this debate.

Never said it was a good idea. I simply said bashing it wasn't constructive. We all know it's not a replacement for Legacy, so it really shouldn't be a part of the discussion.

It doesn't matter if you or I think it's a good idea or not. It's not made for us. But it doesn't mean it's made for no one. If there is an audience for it, they're just not going to be here in the forums debating about it because it's not a big f'ing deal.

[Struggle]

Never said it was a good idea. I simply said bashing it wasn't constructive. We all know it's not a replacement for Legacy, so it really shouldn't be a part of the discussion.

It doesn't matter if you or I think it's a good idea or not. It's not made for us. But it doesn't mean it's made for no one. If there is an audience for it, they're just not going to be here in the forums debating about it because it's not a big f'ing deal.

Well it's just that we're talking about allocating resources. Why dedicate resources to Pristine when they would be better served providing Legacy?

The mode wouldn't go unused, I have friends that still play retail and would definitely give Pristine a go. I would if I still played. But it's a separate thing, and the community agrees that this is the wrong time for it. Fixing leveling in general and/or implimenting Legacy servers addresses community issues now.

[Eliseus]

Gogo Legacy Rangers!

[darxide]

So if you really want change how things are - vote correctly.

Yep. Copyright laws are really the most important things we have to worry about right now. What a wonderful time to live when that's the worst thing the world has to deal with.

Idiot.

[Thimagryn]

Well it's just that we're talking about allocating resources. Why dedicate resources to Pristine when they would be better served providing Legacy?

The mode wouldn't go unused, I have friends that still play retail and would definitely give Pristine a go. I would if I still played. But it's a separate thing, and the community agrees that this is the wrong time for it. Fixing leveling in general and/or implimenting Legacy servers addresses community issues now.

The question is akin to asking why Blizzard would do multiple difficulties of raids rather than adding more raid tiers like they used to. One could suggest that the resources (time, effort) they spend on different mechanics of the same fight could be spread amongst new fights entirely.

But when we break things down, the more efficient approach is focusing on making one raid accessible to as many as possible. The resources are focused without requiring new teams or more spread out customer service. Of course people would rather have more content rather than the same content with multiple difficulty levels, but that's a different argument. The question is why Blizzard would seek the former rather than the latter - which the answer is efficiency without requiring much resources.

Why pristine servers? Because they are Live servers with limitations set. That's all they are. Turn off heirlooms, boosts and ez-leveling. Crank up HP and stats of mobs. The rest is the same. This bypasses a huge amount of the resources required to maintain Legacy - like GM's tackling information on a new set of quests, getting people unstuck from places, dealing with any potential Legacy bugs and problems etc. All of that wouldn't exist in Pristine because it is literally like playing on a server with Project60's self-imposed limitations in place.

Blizzard has the apple tree, so if they're offering apple pies and players want something to drink, apple juice or cider is the easiest thing for them to make. Asking for Legacy servers is like asking for orange juice, after Blizzard stopped growing Orange trees. Not an impossible task, but it's also not in Blizzard's best interest to do so unless the demand is worth the cost of growing (and maintaining) orange trees.

[Charge me Doctor]

Heh that was my thoughts. It was interesting the the game peaked at 10milish subs again yet everything was still so...... empty at launch. Probably explains why people left just as fast as the came. Also probably indication as to why Blizzard even recognizes the issues in the leveling process right now.

Empty? I don't know wtf you was playing but even in my garrison a had dozens of people

[Deleted]

Yep. Copyright laws are really the most important things we have to worry about right now. What a wonderful time to live when that's the worst thing the world has to deal with.

Idiot.

I'm sorry you felt so incredibly offended by my post from page 4 or 5 that you had to call me names.
If you'd read the entire conversation you'd realize some people were frustrated by copyright laws and demanding them to be changed - my post merely suggested the only way to change laws is by voting in people who are actually receptive to change.

That's how the world works - I find it a bit amusing it offended you so much. You are posting in a videogame thread about a pirate server after all... I'm not sure what other worldly issues this topic allows..

[darxide]

I'm sorry you felt so incredibly offended by my post from page 4 or 5 that you had to call me names.

I'm sorry that I don't check these forums every day like you do. I might come here once ever week or two. Sorry to disappoint. You'll just have to wait until next month for me to berate you again.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry that I don't check these forums every day like you do. I might come here once ever week or two. Sorry to disappoint. You'll just have to wait until next month for me to berate you again.

So you jump in once a month, shit on people, then bail. Great way to debate, son..