Casualization is the biggest problem wow: True or false

[tylenol]

Mist was 90% filler non challenging content. It only had raids really. It was a weak expansion at launch and kept getting carried. It wasn't as bad as warlords but it was seen as a disaster.

Casual who played the game a lot when I was subbed here...I was subbed through the entire expansion, for comparison I was subbed to WoD for 12 days before I called it quits.

Even though MoP had a lot of raids there was still shit to actually do, you didn't sit in some private instanced shithole all day and collect tons of gold and resources (I mean farms but you still actually gathered stuff from out in the world), the dailies in MoP pissed a lot off people off early on because they were kind of a requirement for almost everyone, if you wanted extra raid rolls you had to do dailies (they just cost gold or *insert any currency here* now), if you wanted certain profession patterns you had to go through like 2-3 different factions and get them to exalted, tons of gating, aside from that it was still something to do and there were literally tons of dailies to do, professions were still decent in MoP also, you actually had to go out and mine ore, pick herbs, skin mobs and whatever else, do you even have to leave your garrison to do any of that now?


WoD was a raiding expansion that catered to raiders and it failed miserably, hopefully they learned something from it and judging from some of the stuff I've read about in Legion, it seems like they might've

[Sansnom]

Over 6 millions of players alredy did so dont bother to tell us. If you didnt notice WoW kinda lacks of players. So pls stop telling us to find different game becouse we did.

Then what is being achieved by posting here?

[Jtbrig7390]

It didn't have much world content. It had dailies the same as wod and heroics that where to easy at launch to the point you could do them naked. Only timeless isle had something rest of mop was really bland

For world content it had....

1. Timeless Island.
2. Island of Thunder
3. 6 Main World Boss's
4. many rare boss's that dropped useful items like the Rep and XP pots.
5. Dailys.
6. The pvp/pve mix content in The Veiled Stair

MOP itself also had.
1. A LFR worth doing
2. Normal & Heroic Scenarios
3. Challenge Mode Dungeons (This is where that started)
4. Added Flex Mode raiding.
5. Panda Starting Race/Zone.
6. Three Tiers of Raiding.
7. The first Mythic mode raid.
8. The start of Brawlers Guild.

All of that content was done up until WOD's release. It had a good amount of content even more so compared to Cata and WOD. I get it you didn't like MOP's content because you couldn't stroke your epeen and its challenge didn't give you a boner. Also I am sure there is a few bits of content I am missing.

But to say it didn't have content is a outright lie, It just didn't have content you liked.

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Then what is being achieved by posting here?

You realize this is more then just a site to post things about WoW right? Many games and stuff get talked about here.

[Glorious Leader]

Except that discussion about being forced to cap happened in WoD and maybe before MoP. Capping VP in MoP was extremely easy and worked great. There were doubts about the WoD VP mechanism mostly that you don't have a choise of VP sources if you want to cap.

And MoP dailies were hate by raiders and non-raiders quite equally.

Nobody whined about having to cap apexis in wod it was garbage that was replaced almost immediately by tier pieces. In wrath valor could buy you tier and subsequently it was "forced".

Same for dailies
Same for the 10/25 man runs (cause 10 man heroic potentially had some bis)
Same for any fucking activity that had any remote power that could be exploited for raid progression. Subsequently it was all removed in wod and lo and behold theirs nothing to do anymore. ...

[Nubulous]

And with WoD demonstrating that trying to make the game more convenient for the upper crust of players just didn't work, and with Legion likely seeing a flood of newbie players due to the movie, the demands of the market are likely not "more focus on the hardcore".

Just because there wasnt alot of content all together DOESNT mean Raiding was catered to. Content was less EVERYWHERE

[Gandrake]

boring/unimaginative and just flat out poor game design is a bigger issue honestly

[Glorious Leader]

Just because there wasnt alot of content all together DOESNT mean Raiding was catered to. Content was less EVERYWHERE

Which only means raiding still got too.much.

They added 5 dungeons and some rehashed
They added no new BG's
They added one additional zone that they had done at launch or at least almost finished

With that utter lack of non raid content the fact that you got 3 whole raids means yoi were utterly catered. Yea every one got less but raiders still got the largest piece of that pie UNDESERVEDLY

[Nubulous]

I agree. Thing was mainly that it was a (tiny) first step in a learning curve. Could it have been executed better? Undoubtedly. However, once they gave in to any sort of little trip-up or any glimmer of cooperation being too much to handle, they went down the slope to where we are now: a 0 learning, 0 interaction game until you hit normal raids in early expansion.

It is not the concept of LFR, a raiding tier for the casual player that can't commit to a fixed raiding schedule (often it is not the time, but the schedule commitment that is a problem) that is wrong. Early LFR, without the 'determination' buff (most detrimental idea ever), and tuned to towards a cooperating but not voice coordinated group of mostly casual competent players, did strike the right balance imho. Current LFR, tuned to not just to the uncoordinated and unskilled, but to the unwilling AFK'ers (tabbed out to youtube, who cares, after enough determination stacks we get the loot anyways) with a few active saboteurs trying to wipe the raid on purpose in the mix (it is a 0 social game, no 'reputation' penalties), is an insult also to most casuals that do want to play a game.

I still disagree about the whole TIME issue being why people run LFR....You can jump in and out of bosses in LFG. Current LFR is god awful. Unfor people are either so bad or so lazy that the determination buff HAS to be there and content really cant be hard at all. Did you see the whining about Archimonde LFR?

[primalmatter]

Which only means raiding still got too.much.

They added 5 dungeons and some rehashed
They added no new BG's
They added one additional zone that they had done at launch or at least almost finished

With that utter lack of non raid content the fact that you got 3 whole raids means yoi were utterly catered. Yea every one got less but raiders still got the largest piece of that pie UNDESERVEDLY

WoD had more non raid content then most expansions though...

You just didn't consider it worth your time lad.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

WoD had more non raid content then most expansions though...

You just didn't consider it worth your time lad.

It has has less variety of content and just less content in general.

Warlords had less world bosses, heroic dungeons, dungeons, daily, daily zones, reputations, mounts, and battle pets. Warlord's also discontinued content like brawlers guild, scenarios, heroic scenarios, and timeless isle with no replacements. Mist gave us three new battlegrounds and two new arenas. We also got a new race, starting zone, and class. Garrison mission tables are automated it's basically a shitter version of tillers which actually gave you choose rather than bot activities for you and making profession not worth while.

it added daily quest in 6.2 they weren't in the game at launch. It has less daily quest then mist even when you take those into account. If we got the quest on timeless isle and Isle of thunder alone it blows apexis quest out of the water.

[primalmatter]

For world content it had....

1. Timeless Island.
2. Island of Thunder
3. 6 Main World Boss's
4. many rare boss's that dropped useful items like the Rep and XP pots.
5. Dailys.
6. The pvp/pve mix content in The Veiled Stair

MOP itself also had.
1. A LFR worth doing
2. Normal & Heroic Scenarios
3. Challenge Mode Dungeons (This is where that started)
4. Added Flex Mode raiding.
5. Panda Starting Race/Zone.
6. Three Tiers of Raiding.
7. The first Mythic mode raid.
8. The start of Brawlers Guild.

All of that content was done up until WOD's release. It had a good amount of content even more so compared to Cata and WOD. I get it you didn't like MOP's content because you couldn't stroke your epeen and its challenge didn't give you a boner. Also I am sure there is a few bits of content I am missing.

But to say it didn't have content is a outright lie, It just didn't have content you liked.

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You realize this is more then just a site to post things about WoW right? Many games and stuff get talked about here.

Do I really have to point out that their isn't actually anything on your list? Who am I kidding of course I will lets see...

1. Timeless Island. = TJ
2. Island of Thunder = Mission table
3. 6 Main World Boss's vs 4
4. many rare boss's that dropped useful items like the Rep and XP pots. 2 rares that did Wods rares dropped xp pots and rep too
5. Dailys. WoD had more when you take into account each apexis mission was 4 dailies wrapped into one but interface changes are spooky!
6. The pvp/pve mix content in The Veiled Stair I actually have no idea what you mean by this....

MOP itself also had.
1. A LFR worth doing / I suppose it did?
2. Normal & Heroic Scenarios / Both jokes the former so much so it had a five minute que time on my realm the later had to have crazy rewards
3. Challenge Mode Dungeons (This is where that started) and was refined in WoD
4. Added Flex Mode raiding. Was just renamed into normal
5. Panda Starting Race/Zone. Err... I guess?
6. Three Tiers of Raiding. True raiders where the only ones to get jibbed in WoD
7. The first Mythic mode raid. Mythic was a rename come on now even you are smarter then this
8. The start of Brawlers Guild. The continuation of Brawlers

[Glorious Leader]

It has has less variety of content and just less content in general.

Warlords had less world bosses, heroic dungeons, dungeons, daily, daily zones, reputations, mounts, and battle pets. Warlord's also discontinued content like brawlers guild, scenarios, heroic scenarios, and timeless isle with no replacements.

it added daily quest in 6.2 they weren't in the game at launch. It has less daily quest then mist.

Scenarios kicked the bucket as well. But we still got 3 raids... just had to have em and massive 13+ boss raids at that...

[primalmatter]

It has has less variety of content and just less content in general.

Warlords had less world bosses, heroic dungeons, dungeons, daily, daily zones, reputations, mounts, and battle pets. Warlord's also discontinued content like brawlers guild, scenarios, heroic scenarios, and timeless isle with no replacements.

it added daily quest in 6.2 they weren't in the game at launch. It has less daily quest then mist.

Brawlers guild is in wod.... TJ is the same as timeless isle just spread out... Am I the only one who actually looks around and takes a look at what there is to do?

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Scenarios kicked the bucket as well. But we still got 3 raids... just had to have em and massive 13+ boss raids at that...

Scenarios had a QUEUE before they got buffed with crazy rewards they where not good content and they exist in the game today as quests...

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Brawlers guild is in wod.... TJ is the same as timeless isle just spread out... Am I the only one who actually looks around and takes a look at what there is to do?

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Scenarios had a QUEUE before they got buffed with crazy rewards they where not good content and they exist in the game today as quests...

It's in warlord's but it got discontinued. They could have continued in warlord's but didn't instead we got garrison which is basically a farming, and gold bot. They were still used and told unique stories and weren't automated like garrison.

Its the same as timeless but with less content and we had two daily hubs like Tanaan Jungle last expansion that's the difference. What quest are those genuinely curious link me some examples?

[primalmatter]

It's in warlord's but it got discontinued. They could have continued in warlord's but didn't instead we got garrison which is basically a farming, and gold bot. They were still used and told unique stories and weren't automated like garrison.

Its the same as timeless but with less content and we had two daily hubs like Tanaan Jungle last expansion that's the difference. What quest are those genuinely curious link me some examples?

There is roughly one per zone most end in cut-scenes I recall the ones from the legendary the best but each zone at one at least. The whole sneaking around quest thing

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

There is roughly one per zone most end in cut-scenes I recall the ones from the legendary the best but each zone at one at least. The whole sneaking around quest thing

So what 8 vs 15 + heroic scenarios(don't consider heroic extra content)?

[primalmatter]

So what 8 vs 15 + 15 heroic scenario? Mist is still the winner .

It is kind of like winning a seat at the front of the short bus. They were awful content only used to cap valor quickly. Hell out side of the legendary quests and the green fire they where all done extremely poorly.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

It is kind of like winning a seat at the front of the short bus. They were awful content only used to cap valor quickly. Hell out side of the legendary quests and the green fire they where all done extremely poorly.

So when you lose the numbers game you just get straight to insults, belittlement, and personal attacks. You're so condescending but also wrong a lot for some with such a superiority complex.

They were still something to do and I know several people who want that awful content back. I ran them for the stories alone didn't do the legendary quest or warlock quest(didn't have a max level lock). I refused to grind for that legendary and pug raided without it.

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WoD had more non raid content then most expansions though...

You just didn't consider it worth your time lad.

What expansion were those? Every expansion had more content than warlord's except maybe cataclysm but everyone hated that expansion as well...

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Do I really have to point out that their isn't actually anything on your list? Who am I kidding of course I will lets see...

1. Timeless Island. = TJ
2. Island of Thunder = Mission table
3. 6 Main World Boss's vs 4
4. many rare boss's that dropped useful items like the Rep and XP pots. 2 rares that did Wods rares dropped xp pots and rep too
5. Dailys. WoD had more when you take into account each apexis mission was 4 dailies wrapped into one but interface changes are spooky!
6. The pvp/pve mix content in The Veiled Stair I actually have no idea what you mean by this....

MOP itself also had.
1. A LFR worth doing / I suppose it did?
2. Normal & Heroic Scenarios / Both jokes the former so much so it had a five minute que time on my realm the later had to have crazy rewards
3. Challenge Mode Dungeons (This is where that started) and was refined in WoD
4. Added Flex Mode raiding. Was just renamed into normal
5. Panda Starting Race/Zone. Err... I guess?
6. Three Tiers of Raiding. True raiders where the only ones to get jibbed in WoD
7. The first Mythic mode raid. Mythic was a rename come on now even you are smarter then this
8. The start of Brawlers Guild. The continuation of Brawlers

1.Looking for raid was harder and had more boss than warlord's raid finder. It was also more rewarding but I like some of the changes that were warlord's made to looking for raid. So players didn't feel forced to run it but they made it way to easy.
2.Mist had 9 world bosses that could each drop raid loot and warlord's only had 4 raid boss that were capable.
3.Timeless had more quest and we got isle of thunder as well.
4.Isle of Thunder had an actual story and wasn't automated like missions tables.
5.Warlord's didn't launch with daily quest and had less than mist overall. If we count the daily quest from the launch on mist, timeless isle, and isle of thunder. Mist shit on warlord's in the daily quest department.
6.How were challenges modes refined we got weapons instead of sets and people could still solo challenge modes in warlord's. People still offered boost in warlord's as well.
7.We had 26 scenarios and 15 heroic scenarios but only 8 unrepeatable scenarios in warlord's.
8.Garrison is unhealthy version of tillers farm. The farm gave you a couple materials and didn't make farming pointless also didn't just give you weekly random gear. You need valor points to purchase raid gear before.
9.Professions were gutted and garrison made farming less important. They add upgrade able sets and I hope they continue that in legion.
11.We got three new battlegrounds and two new arenas in mist. Warlord's added none. We got Ashran but Mist has it's own version named Dominance. It had rares that gave honor and you could capture objectives but it wasn't very popular.
12.We had unique sets for both pvp and pve.
13.Brawler guild stopped getting updated(discontinued) and was replaced with nothing. I can run black temple in warlord's but is it warlord's content or just wow content in general?
14.We got a new class, new starting zones, and new race.
17.We lost 2200 pvp weapons which were reasonable rewards for the effort put into getting them.
18.Valor and Justice point gear got removed which gave incentive for people to run dungeons. You could purchase bind of equip items to sell so people would rerun older content to make an easy five hundred to one thousand gold. We have Apexis crystals but they're similar to token from timeless. We also had upgrade able gear in mist from timeless isle just like legions Apexis system.
19.We didn't get a new capital city.

Quest comparison chart: http://i.imgur.com/FZb3kOX.jpg? Mist had like 1k more.
World bosses: http://wow.gamepedia.com/World_boss
Scenarios:http://wow.gamepedia.com/Scenario

Warlord's has the most content available because it can leech off previous expansions that people have played through but warlord's added the least content of any previous expansion except maybe cataclysm.

[Daffan]

Why the hell is everyone saying "catch up mechanisms ruined wow" instead of naming it by the name:

PVP ruined casual PVE

If you complain about free gear from ashran / BGs that's PVP. And it's there because PVPers qqued they have to raid to stay competitive. They always did. Omg we have to raid to obtain BIS trinkets for pvp etc.

The fact you can buy arena boost and get full 710 in an afternoon because of inflated conquest caps late in the season makes it look even more like welfare.

They are "doing something with it" in Legion, the only question is will that something actually fix the problem. They're trying to fix it since at least TBC, where the same problem arose - why play raiding and try to climb through raid tiers at slower, casual pace, when I can do arena and get better ilvl? Ok, the gear isn't perfectly itemized and has tons of stamina in comparison to dps stats, but w/e free epics?

For hardcore raiders pvp gear wasn't desirable but for many casuals late TBC pvp gear was far beyond any other reward they could obtain. And when the brutal gladiator gear was released... Trololo... I remember having a shaman tank a hc dungeon. Maybe it wasn't as bad as in MOP / WOD where you can plain out solo hc dungeons in end game gear, but still. Reps, dungeons, Karazhan? Why? When people could just straight out pvp for better gear. And it's not like you need to be world top pvper to get it, anyone can.

Why would I say just PVP ruined casual PVE?

Remove PVP Gear. Baleful 705 still exists. Same problem, different name.

So no, it's not just PVP gear.

Remove baleful/pvp you still have lookingforAFK and timewalking. Just nobody talks about those 2 anymore because they were replaced by baleful and pvp gear.

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It's funny. Blizzard could make 40 heroic dungeons and people would still complain there is nothing to do because it would all be beneath them due to their inflated gear.

It's like having a cheat code and complaining the normal game doesn't reward as much as typing in keysersoze 999999 100 times.

[primalmatter]

Why would I say just PVP ruined casual PVE?

Remove PVP Gear. Baleful 705 still exists. Same problem, different name.

So no, it's not just PVP gear.

Remove baleful/pvp you still have lookingforAFK and timewalking. Just nobody talks about those 2 anymore because they were replaced by baleful and pvp gear.

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It's funny. Blizzard could make 40 heroic dungeons and people would still complain there is nothing to do because it would all be beneath them due to their inflated gear.

It's like having a cheat code and complaining the normal game doesn't reward as much as typing in keysersoze 999999 100 times.

Pretty much but they just can't see that no matter how hard you try.

They don't even compare power anymore except to that of mythic raiders. It has become rather absurd... you would almost think they want all content scaled around that idea.