[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Cyous]

In the datamining stands something about the innervate trait now giving 20% haste instead of 20% more healing.
Is that correct? And If yes....wtf....it was crap before...but now our utility is even crappier.....

This is correct. And while it's not great for raw increase, it does have the potenmtial to be okay. Monks can spam their healing even harder, as an example.

I'm kinda disappointedour artifact traits are so bleh.

[Keiyra]

In the datamining stands something about the innervate trait now giving 20% haste instead of 20% more healing.
Is that correct? And If yes....wtf....it was crap before...but now our utility is even crappier.....

Actually, the new version could in fact be even better for healers in terms of free healing. Since 1% haste is about equal to 1% increased healing, but having haste instead could allow the healer to get off another mana free spell before innervate wears off, that they otherwise wouldn't.

[Nerxyrall]

So our "new" utility is made even worse....pls make a little noise on the Beta Forums ...wtf...
Give us MoonkinAura back 1% crit, 30ys or something....little it wont be mandatory for raids, but enough that one moonkin will be really great to have.
(Does pala still have its 5%Haste Aura?)

Edit:

Actually, the new version could in fact be even better for healers in terms of free healing. Since 1% haste is about equal to 1% increased healing, but having haste instead could allow the healer to get off another mana free spell before innervate wears off, that they otherwise wouldn't.

Okay. Didnt think of that.
Still not really great and with a big/little "if".

[Catbug]

Actually, the new version could in fact be even better for healers in terms of free healing. Since 1% haste is about equal to 1% increased healing, but having haste instead could allow the healer to get off another mana free spell before innervate wears off, that they otherwise wouldn't.

Its also more flexible and can be used in fights where mana might not be so much of an issue as healing intensity is and personally as a healer I find 20% more haste as a buff is more fun just a static increase.

[Deleted]

I've been doing normal dungeons as a 110 with 790 ilvl and I really struggle to keep up with other people, they can even be lower level but they are far more superior on trash aswell as on bosses, I get a huge lead during CDs with FoE but after that I just dip down to like 3rd place and sometimes even 4th if the tank pulls out some crazy damage. No idea why some people calls us a really strong class but maybe my damage will go up alot when I get full heroic gear, although I have a bad feeling that it wont.

[Lucrece]

I've been doing normal dungeons as a 110 with 790 ilvl and I really struggle to keep up with other people, they can even be lower level but they are far more superior on trash aswell as on bosses, I get a huge lead during CDs with FoE but after that I just dip down to like 3rd place and sometimes even 4th if the tank pulls out some crazy damage. No idea why some people calls us a really strong class but maybe my damage will go up alot when I get full heroic gear, although I have a bad feeling that it wont.

Balance druid is currently top 3 ranged DPS, competing with spriests and demo/destro locks. The problem is that dungeon aoe packs are all about burst aoe DPS and Starfall's ramp up sucks at that.

Look into some alpha/beta mythic attempt videos, the spec is competitive even if it's boring ;p.

Just make sure to post your feedback on Starfall and how you feel playing the spec in the beta forums where developers are actually bound to read them.

[Deleted]

Balance druid is currently top 3 ranged DPS, competing with spriests and demo/destro locks. The problem is that dungeon aoe packs are all about burst aoe DPS and Starfall's ramp up sucks at that.

Look into some alpha/beta mythic attempt videos, the spec is competitive even if it's boring ;p.

Just make sure to post your feedback on Starfall and how you feel playing the spec in the beta forums where developers are actually bound to read them.

Well I do not know how it works with the scaling of mobs and bosses in dungeons either because lower level players seem to do alot more dmg than what I did at that level and they do more dmg than me sometimes even tho I'm doing my burst thing with FoE and keeping it alive for a good amount of time.

[Kyanion]

Finally got a bit of time to play around in Beta since I was having constant DC's and other issues. I learned that you can cast Moonfire/Sunfire and New Moon's spell line facing any direction. It is about time we have a few spells we can cast no matter where a mob runs to or if we are running away from something.

[Hadrious]

Doing dungeons all night, the talent swapping system RLY fucks us ALOT... Extremely hard to to aoe dmg without setting up for it and then cant swap to go single for bosses... The biggest thing with dungeon aoe, like stated multiple times, astral power generation, and low starfall dmg (even the empowerment didnt do that much, BUT that might just be a tuning issue so tbd)

- - - Updated - - -

Also, Alame, still waiting on that wall of post to put up on blizz forums , most posts now are about how moonkins look...

[Lucrece]

Doing dungeons all night, the talent swapping system RLY fucks us ALOT... Extremely hard to to aoe dmg without setting up for it and then cant swap to go single for bosses... The biggest thing with dungeon aoe, like stated multiple times, astral power generation, and low starfall dmg (even the empowerment didnt do that much, BUT that might just be a tuning issue so tbd)

- - - Updated - - -

Also, Alame, still waiting on that wall of post to put up on blizz forums , most posts now are about how moonkins look...

I said it before and I'll say it again. I even tweeted to their devs.

The talent change restrictions harms hybrid DPS disproportionately compared to pure DPS. There are no specialization switch restrictions so all pure DPS need to do is have each spec that best performs for aoe/single target/cleave set up for each situation and switch.

All hybrid DPS have to compensate for the fact they don't have as many spells or DPS specializations is their talents.

So you better hope they end up making all hybrid DPS baseline competitive in aoe, cleave, and single target because with the talent restrictions they'll be clearly disadvantaged if they don't.

[wing5wong]

Do you guys really change talents that frequently?

Changing specs/talents between every pull isnt good design at all.

If you really want to change mid run grab the inscription item.

[Lucrece]

Do you guys really change talents that frequently?

Changing specs/talents between every pull isnt good design at all.

If you really want to change mid run grab the inscription item.

Let's forget for a moment about talent switching. What does it say when a change impacts some classes far more than others? Is that good design as well?

[Cyous]

Do you guys really change talents that frequently?

Changing specs/talents between every pull isnt good design at all.

If you really want to change mid run grab the inscription item.

I change before boss pulls. Typically, I have my "boss build" and my "trash build"

[Hadrious]

Do you guys really change talents that frequently?

Changing specs/talents between every pull isnt good design at all.

In a dungeon, yeah all the time. If you need to aoe more, gotta swap to Shooting Stars and probably Stellar Drift (lol starfall does no dmg...) and probably Sould of the Forest as well. Need to go back single target? Well Stellar Drift doesnt do shit for you single target so need to swap back, and BoA will most likely give you more astral power, so need to swap to that as well, and Incarn for big burst as well. So yeah their is ALOT of talent swapping.

If you really want to change mid run grab the inscription item.

Have you seen the required mats for that item? You know scribes will charge an arm and a leg at the start of the expansion. I would actually prefer if it was reversed, change talents all you want but need an inn/scribe item to change specs

[Deleted]

I change before boss pulls. Typically, I have my "boss build" and my "trash build"

Hello everyone. After doing heroic dungeon all the night, i have the feeling we don't do a lot of burst aoe dmg on trash at all (i was with a DH and DK) and i am not the best on boss as well.

Can you give you artefact talents ? where did you spend your artefact power ?

And which talents do you use ?

I know this is very situational but just to have an idea of the "good" way to have a decent dps in dungeon !

Thank a lot guys

Have a good day.

[wing5wong]

Let's forget for a moment about talent switching. What does it say when a change impacts some classes far more than others? Is that good design as well?

assuming other classes have an aoe 'spec', a st spec, and so on...i wouldnt mind if i had to quickly visit a class trainer to change spec either tbh.
im very much against pushing the button and being at the content (heroic queues).

- - - Updated - - -

I change before boss pulls. Typically, I have my "boss build" and my "trash build"

I dont mind that, i was suggesting just before that boss areas were available for respecs (raid only, not sure. probably - heroics etc dont matter so much. for timed mythics, if you want that luxury, buy the item - just like doing CMs with all the tricks).

Holding up raids is probably not an intended consequence of the change, but stopping people swapping for every trash pull/boss in a dungeon probably is.

I cant remember who posted it, but they were saying if you can just change whenever, you may as well have the spells baseline - and i agree there

- - - Updated - - -

In a dungeon, yeah all the time. If you need to aoe more, gotta swap to Shooting Stars and probably Stellar Drift (lol starfall does no dmg...) and probably Sould of the Forest as well. Need to go back single target? Well Stellar Drift doesnt do shit for you single target so need to swap back, and BoA will most likely give you more astral power, so need to swap to that as well, and Incarn for big burst as well. So yeah their is ALOT of talent swapping.


Have you seen the required mats for that item? You know scribes will charge an arm and a leg at the start of the expansion. I would actually prefer if it was reversed, change talents all you want but need an inn/scribe item to change specs

Its easy enough to find a middle of the road spec if you dont want to change all the time. AC or BOTA, and Inc/SotF are both good ST talents.
You dont NEED to change talents all the time

[Lucrece]

I'm not opposed to locking specs either, as you suggested. So long as restrictions truly apply to everybody in a comparable manner, I can accept that.

But right now we are not at that comparable level.

[striderZA]

Do you guys really change talents that frequently?

Changing specs/talents between every pull isnt good design at all.

If you really want to change mid run grab the inscription item.

Haven't been able to do it in CMs for 2 expansions so I don't see the sudden outcry, and playing a Warlock, I'm too lazy to switch talents in Mythic dungeons because I have to resummon pets. Raiding is another story, during progress it's commonplace to chop and change talents to figure out what's working best alongside your strategy. Nonetheless, there is the inscription thing for that, and I really don't see why people are making this out to be such a horrible thing and react in a "this is going to make me quit the game" kind of way. Pretty ridiculous.

[Owlkin]

Hello everyone. After doing heroic dungeon all the night, i have the feeling we don't do a lot of burst aoe dmg on trash at all (i was with a DH and DK) and i am not the best on boss as well.

Can you give you artefact talents ? where did you spend your artefact power ?

And which talents do you use ?

I know this is very situational but just to have an idea of the "good" way to have a decent dps in dungeon !

Thank a lot guys

Have a good day.

My universal build:
1. Force of Nature - best single target option and little save (they taunt even bosses)
2. Displacer Beast
3. ---
4. Soul of the Forest - buff both aoe and singletarget
5. Blessing of the Ancients: BoA - you running alot in dungeons, BoA work all time
6. Fury of Elune - our Bladestorm option. All other too weak.

With Fury of Elune our best burst aoe option. Starfall realy sux after they double nerf our dots. I think they don't understand that if they nerf our dots they nerf our aoe even more due to starfall/mastery.

[Deleted]

My universal build:
1. Force of Nature - best single target option and little save (they taunt even bosses)
2. Displacer Beast
3. ---
4. Soul of the Forest - buff both aoe and singletarget
5. Blessing of the Ancients: BoA - you running alot in dungeons, BoA work all time
6. Fury of Elune - our Bladestorm option. All other too weak.

With Fury of Elune our best burst aoe option. Starfall realy sux after they double nerf our dots. I think they don't understand that if they nerf our dots they nerf our aoe even more due to starfall/mastery.

I thought that Warrior of Elune and incarnation was better choices for boss damage, since you'll be able to keep up Fury of Elune for a longer time.