In the House of Light and Shadow (Xe'ra's Revelation Event)

[KrazyK923]

Didn't the Developers state that they wanted to give Illidan a good redemption story? And everyone knows that Blizzard is making a Kerrigan 2.0 with Illidan's story (Sadly). But glad its him cause we've known Illidan since Warcraft 3 or maybe Frozen Throne (been too long) and for Anduin we just knew about him in Vanilla. And come Legion is what 16 or maybe 18. Highly doubt he knows conflict since hes all about trying to find peace and avoid conflict.

How does Khadgar know Illidan is dead? Does he see him get stabbed or he see's Gul'dan rip illidan's soul away?

I guess it's assumed he died after we stormed the Black Temple and took him out. After all, Khadgar was in Shattrath during all of that.

[Deleted]

It's especially frustrating because no one on Azeroth would know. Before the Draenei, knowledge of the Naaru didn't exist. Before the Draenei got to Azeorth, knowledge of Elune didn't exist to the Draenei. It doesn't make any god damn sense and I'm tired of this crazy bullshit! Khadgar COULD NOT have found it in a book somewhere! I'm just so disgusted with the writing decisions for this expansion...

But the plot convenience.
Blizzard only really cares for they story right then and there, everything else be retconed!

Elune being a child of X'whateverhisnameis that went to Azeroth and lost it's physical form by preventing a fifth old god or something along these lines would have been a much much better explanation why the tears did anything

[Kryos]

Is Chris Metzen catholic? Because that's what the catholic church always does. "You sinned? No problem, just be sorry and confess and you will go to heaven anyway" "You where always good? Who cares, I bet you did something wrong at one point and didn't confess - to hell with you!".

He said he is a sucker for a good redemption story
https://youtu.be/V5WV7JewgQc
and while he now is official not the lead writer for WoW lore anymore, he was still mentioned in the Chronicles book and I bet my ass off, that the Illidan story was his idea.

That begs the question what comes next after Legion and I think it's either old gods or Argus. Both would make sense. Important answers from the Pandaria introducing Blizzcon:

Here I think we hear a glimps that there are other Eredar that are in space (and not crashed on Draenor) ... maybe they lead or transport the golden army?
That would be more in line with "Argus is next" since we open the bottle of super strange sci-fi space/Titan/creation story stuff in Legion.

[Beloren]

Same shit as with Kerrigan, where a selfish mass murderer gets a forced redemption story by saving entire universe.

I like it. It's good that at least some can get redemption. And unke Arthas and many of the bad guys, Illidan was always trying to defeat the evil guys to save his world. So it's nice that he can get redemption, he was never given the fair chance before his night elf incarceration

[Flacko]

Hoping Xe'ra is mistaken, and it turns out its Anduin and Sylvanas who are the champions.

Guess you dont know what lore means.

[Eazy]

Hoping Xe'ra is mistaken, and it turns out its Anduin and Sylvanas who are the champions.

What about Tyrande and Gallywix? It would make almost the same sense.

Is Chris Metzen catholic? Because that's what the catholic church always does. "You sinned? No problem, just be sorry and confess and you will go to heaven anyway" "You where always good? Who cares, I bet you did something wrong at one point and didn't confess - to hell with you!".

He said he is a sucker for a good redemption story
and while he now is official not the lead writer for WoW lore anymore, he was still mentioned in the Chronicles book and I bet my ass off, that the Illidan story was his idea.

I thought that's obvious. ;-)

[Deleted]

It's giggle worthy how many people are claiming Illidan is a trash character now when we haven't seen a single moment of him in the game yet, only people talking about him.

So him during the demon hunter class hall campaign, when he is on the Nether escaping from demons and talks to the Illidari and tells us to be the new leader.

- - - Updated - - -

Is Chris Metzen catholic? Because that's what the catholic church always does. "You sinned? No problem, just be sorry and confess and you will go to heaven anyway" "You where always good? Who cares, I bet you did something wrong at one point and didn't confess - to hell with you!".

What?


Back on topic, besides the cringy Xe'ra monologue, it isn't without fixing. Blizzard needs to ditch the "Light is good, Shadow is bad" idea if they want to move with the story. That's why the Velen's Bringer of Light scenario is so good in the first place.

[Deleted]

I just hope that Illidan wont turn "Holy angel" I want him to stay as he is now, but he still could fight with us or even lead the Army of Light.


Btw what about that sacrifise Illidan has to make? Maybe Tyrande dies or Illidan loses hes demonic powers

[Deleted]

Elune confirmed as creator of Naaru, existing before the ordering of the Universe.

[Raetary]

Elune confirmed as creator of Naaru, existing before the ordering of the Universe.

elune god of everything confirmed.

[Enthralled]

EXACTLY! Exactly.

Illidan is fine being the douchebag who has done things but ultimately wants to help us. He doesn't need to become the Holy Chosen One as well.

Maybe he can be the Douchey Holy Chosen One. Do we have one of those yet? /jk

[Kralljin]

Those actions were still terrible, they might have been justified that doesn't make them good choices. Illidan chose the fastest route and brute force, because he thought there is no other way to fight the legion, though there most certainly are different ways.

Apparently they were neccesary, because since the book we know that Illidan was the only known person who has made a serious hit against the Legion and was even about to destroy Archimonde / KJ permanently.

Where some people might ask themselves: "maybe we should have let Illidan have a totally wrecked planet and get a universe ending threat out of the way?"

Thanks to the book, we know that without Illidan the Horde / Alliance would have failed even to get a foothold on Hellfire peninsula since Illidan killed Highlord Kruul, and not a single person outside the Illidari knew this.

-if- this was their intention all along, could have at least shown his corpse and some guy saying "Wondering what killed that guy"?

It's that kind of stuff where Blizzard just tries so hard to put Illidan in a positive light.

Apparently you have inside information from Blizz's writers that we do not to be so assured of these things, when current information directly counters what you're apparently implying, so I just don't know where to go from here. If that's your opinion of what you believe is the case, so be it.

I would love to know which sentences gave you that idea.

In case it was the "His goal was mainly power and magic."

I understand, brother. Lordship over this world was never my aim... only power... only the magic.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/A_Parting_of_Ways

There's also the thing with the second well of eternity, which was created by Illidan and as far as i know didn't have much to do with destroying the legion.

[Combatbutler]

Apparently they were neccesary, because since the book we know that Illidan was the only known person who has made a serious hit against the Legion and was even about to destroy Archimonde / KJ permanently.

They were effective, but it doesn't make them the right choices so to speak. Illidan operates with ruthless calculus Outland and his subjects were insignificant compared to what is at stake and he is correct about that,but you don't need to create fel orcs to do so, you don't need to enslave populations. These are measures if you have absolutely no other choice, but Illidan still had other choices, but those were not fast enough for him.

You can produce similar results, without sacrificing innocents, he could have united Outland in their fight against the legion, could have used the remaining members of the shadow council to fuel his portals etc.

Where some people might ask themselves: "maybe we should have let Illidan have a totally wrecked planet and get a universe ending threat out of the way?"

That is a no brainer of you have to destroy a planet to utterly eradicate the legion you do it, it is after all for the greater good, but that doesn't mean it was right to do it, the ones who destroyed that world will stain their hands with blood regardless.

Thanks to the book, we know that without Illidan the Horde / Alliance would have failed even to get a foothold on Hellfire peninsula since Illidan killed Highlord Kruul, and not a single person outside the Illidari knew this.

Which is really not that surprising, considering only a very limited amount of people can get through the dark portal at a time, it was a miracle that the people of Azeroth were able to get a foothold to begin with. It is also why the legion is overwhelming the horde and Alliance initially, they have a bigger portal to use and can send more troops at once.

-if- this was their intention all along, could have at least shown his corpse and some guy saying "Wondering what killed that guy"?

It's that kind of stuff where Blizzard just tries so hard to put Illidan in a positive light.

He did it not out of the goodness in his heart, but rather so that the legion was occupied, he did it so he had a meatshield, so I wouldn't call that positive, but rather pragmatism.

[Kralljin]

They were effective, but it doesn't make them the right choices so to speak. Illidan operates with ruthless calculus Outland and his subjects were insignificant compared to what is at stake and he is correct about that,but you don't need to create fel orcs to do so, you don't need to enslave populations.

I get that if you want to destroy the Legion you cannot stick to every moral rule, that some character need to breach the boundaries there, but the thing with Illidan is simply that they go back to an expansion that happened 10 years ago (Real time) and perform a massive act of historical revisionism, it's too much.

You can do that for certain actions or events, but this basically puts the whole Burning Crusade story on it's head, that is not a good move in my view.

I would have been fine with Illidan returning if they let that crap out, it would have put greater emphasis on the idea that we have to get every asshole as ally who helps us against the Legion.

He did it not out of the goodness in his heart, but rather so that the legion was occupied, he did it so he had a meatshield, so I wouldn't call that positive, but rather pragmatism.

It just puts an emphasis on the idea that we actually owe something to Illidan because he saved us, when in my view we should owe nothing to him because in BC he was an asshole that was insane on top of that.

It makes the Alliance and Horde look like idiots, get their ass saved by Illidan, then kill him, then hope he helps us against the legion after he has been ressurected.

[Combatbutler]

I get that if you want to destroy the Legion you cannot stick to every moral rule, that some character need to breach the boundaries there, but the thing with Illidan is simply that they go back to an expansion that happened 10 years ago (Real time) and perform a massive act of historical revisionism, it's too much.

You can do that for certain actions or events, but this basically puts the whole Burning Crusade story on it's head, that is not a good move in my view.

Blizz has killed off most characters that could fit this kind of thinking, morally grey characters barely survive in the warcraft lore, they used the chaotic mess that was bc and added to it, trying to streamline it through another viewpoint. Since we didn't really know what Illidan was up to on Outland, except that he was at war with the legion and was a bastard to the locals.

I would have been fine with Illidan returning if they let that crap out, it would have put greater emphasis on the idea that we have to get every asshole as ally who helps us against the Legion.

Just because the asshole comes in a different color doesn't change the fact that he is still an asshole.

It just puts an emphasis on the idea that we actually owe something to Illidan because he saved us, when in my view we should owe nothing to him because in BC he was an asshole that was insane on top of that.

Arthas held back the scourge, saving Azeroth because he wanted to, saving us. Does that mean we owe Arthas anything? In my opinion no we don't, since he did it out of selfish reasons.

It makes the Alliance and Horde look like idiots, get their ass saved by Illidan, then kill him, then hope he helps us against the legion after he has been ressurected.

To be fair the Alliance and Horde are idiots, they know of the legion, they know the universe is set ablaze around them, but instead of focusing resources on destroying the legion, like colonizing other planets gathering knowledge etc. to destroy them they bicker on Azeroth waiting for them to show up yet again.

Despite massive threats around them pushing the entire globe towards total annihilation, they still bicker among themselves.

[Kallisto]

EXACTLY! Exactly.

Illidan is fine being the douchebag who has done things but ultimately wants to help us. He doesn't need to become the Holy Chosen One as well.

Holy is just a power though. You can be a douchebag asshole and still be infused with light and holy power BC Blood Knights, Scarlets and others. Also he's A champion of light. Anduin kept the term THE in Velen's vision. Likely meaning there is more than one, especially in an army prophesized to be so vast. Having just one leader or hero is just not going to work on a logistical scale.

[Al Gorefiend]

I don't like the direction they're going with Elune. She went from the Night Elf religious diety to supreme cosmic being of the universe? Kinda shits on the religious dieties of all the other races. What's the Earth Mother? A lump of dirt with sticks formed into a smiley face?

All sounds like a Night Elf fan-fic to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't the Developers state that they wanted to give Illidan a good redemption story? And everyone knows that Blizzard is making a Kerrigan 2.0 with Illidan's story (Sadly). But glad its him cause we've known Illidan since Warcraft 3 or maybe Frozen Throne (been too long) and for Anduin we just knew about him in Vanilla. And come Legion is what 16 or maybe 18. Highly doubt he knows conflict since hes all about trying to find peace and avoid conflict.

How does Khadgar know Illidan is dead? Does he see him get stabbed or he see's Gul'dan rip illidan's soul away?

Never played or cared about any other Blizzard titles aside from WoW and Hearthstone, so the story sounds fresh enough for me. Idk what Kerrigan is tbh.

[Raetary]

What's the Earth Mother? A lump of dirt with sticks formed into a smiley face?

well, considering elune is her left eye, and that the tauren were also evolving thanks to the WoE, i guess its safe to assume they worship the same thing just in different ways.

[Al Gorefiend]

well, considering elune is her left eye, and that the tauren were also evolving thanks to the WoE, i guess its safe to assume they worship the same thing just in different ways.

So Elune probably isn't this being's real name. Rather what the Night Elves call it. God, Yahweh, that sort of thing.

[Kralljin]

Since we didn't really know what Illidan was up to on Outland, except that he was at war with the legion and was a bastard to the locals.

Hiding from KJ's wrath, since he fucked up destroying the Lich King.

I mean he said it himself that this was his intent by going to Outland, to hide there.

Just because the asshole comes in a different color doesn't change the fact that he is still an asshole.

Difference is that said asshole now suddenly saved everyones lives.

Arthas held back the scourge, saving Azeroth because he wanted to, saving us. Does that mean we owe Arthas anything? In my opinion no we don't, since he did it out of selfish reasons.

At least Arthas was once a selfless Paladin, Illidan has always been powerhungry.

Despite massive threats around them pushing the entire globe towards total annihilation, they still bicker among themselves.

If you want to a fraction of faction conflict in the franchise, then that's a part of it, but this doesn't justify the writing of Illidan being suddenly the savior of everybody.

Because the one thing needed to stick to the roots of Warcraft, redeeming insane, power hungry, demon hybrids is not.