Does the 'LFR pays for Raid Development' argument make sense?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Nah not really. My opinion i know is not based on selfishness, but i know alot of others are. I just brush those aside. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to try and think about how to make this game good for everyone and not just for yourself.
LFR isn't good content. At the end of the day, that is the fact that needs facing.

LFR isn't good content to you, and you can choose not to do it. For others, it is good content, so to hell with your selfish "My will be done!!"-attitude.
LFR is following us into Legion and will hopefully be improved upon for all those having it as their choice of endgame content, not removed to satisfy people with illusions of grandure feeling threatened by others doing something that they don't want to do themselves.

[stomination]

Nah not really. My opinion i know is not based on selfishness, but i know alot of others are. I just brush those aside. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to try and think about how to make this game good for everyone and not just for yourself.
LFR isn't good content. At the end of the day, that is the fact that needs facing.

Lfr made the playerbase worst at actual raiding and not standing in fire.

[Jtbrig7390]

Nah not really. My opinion i know is not based on selfishness, but i know alot of others are. I just brush those aside. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to try and think about how to make this game good for everyone and not just for yourself.
LFR isn't good content. At the end of the day, that is the fact that needs facing.

Its your opinion it isn't good content and that's the fact you need to face at the end of the day.


Personally I think it is but I also feel WoW needs more content all around. Seems Legion will be doing just that.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Lfr made the playerbase worst at actual raiding and not standing in fire.

...what?

How the hell can the raiding community that does Normal+ content then keep downing ever increasing boss difficulties? MAYBE because the LFR playerbase, never was a part of the raiding community before LFR became a thing...

The raiding community has been around since Classic, tackling ever more complex bosses and evolving alongside that development. Then LFR came at the end of Cata and scooped up the people that couldn't/didn't want to commit to proper raiding, and those people were facing far more complex raid mechanics than the raiding community did in earlier expansions despite LFR offering watered down mechanics by standards of today.

People that raid Normal+ don't ever have to mix with the LFR crowd, so not sure why this stigma exists around LFR players...is it that old trope of "I feel better from looking down at others!" rearing its ugly head again...

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Its your opinion it isn't good content and that's the fact you need to face at the end of the day.


Personally I think it is but I also feel WoW needs more content all around. Seems Legion will be doing just that.

Yep, it sure seems to. Just hoping they'll keep it up in patches following release. ^^

[Jtbrig7390]

and sure you can say those were not required but trust me if you were not giving your all in a progression guild you prbly weren't going to be raiding with them much longer.

If you needed the ilvl boost to progress gear isn't the problem its you. Even more so since the valor came out over half a year after the raid released.

Any guild forcing there members to do content they don't want to do isn't a guild worth being in.
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Yep, it sure seems to. Just hoping they'll keep it up in patches following release. ^^

Agreed.....

[stomination]

If you needed the ilvl boost to progress gear isn't the problem its you. Even more so since the valor came out over half a year after the raid released.

Any guild forcing there members to do content they don't want to do isn't a guild worth being in.
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Agreed.....

13/13M guilds had ppl doing it for speed kills. Try again. its just how the game is and always will be.

[Jtbrig7390]

13/13M guilds had ppl doing it for speed kills. Try again. its just how the game is and always will be.

I don't give a shit if its a 13/13M world first guild. If they have there members doing content they don't want to do then that's not a guild worth being in. If you must get every single % out of gear in WoW accept that you may have to do content you don't like.

Don't request it to be nerfed to fit your needs because people like you are the 0.1% and the game should NOT be catered around you. You make that content a requirement no one else does.

[Jeniwyn]

The biggest problem with LFR is that it is an activity that you can afk though with /follow on for something like 2 hours a week rewarding gear that is better than all other non-raid gear, thus almost instantaneously rendering all non-raid content obsolete. Especially since Blizzard over the years have increased the number of raid drops per boss and player by about 500%.

Rather than paying for raids to be developed, LFR has allowed blizzard to dramatically reduce effort spent on non-raid content. It isn't a coincidence that we haven't seen mid expansion 5 mans since LFR arrived. The so called casual content has gone from fun 5 and 10 man instances to pretend raiding. And that is what we call progress?

When I played retail I used to play both the so called hardcore content and the so called casual content. In WoD, when the hardcore content was done, I had nothing to do. I mean, I played the casual content for fun/to help out before. But playing LFR for fun, when there are zero drops you need and you have more gold than you know what to do with? How many enjoy that?

I really have a hard time understanding what the players who don't even raid normal do for fun in the game today. I just don't get it. I don't get why this segment isn't the one hating on LFR. This segment, where a majority of players reside, have a legitimate reason to truly despise the sorry con job of an endgame that is LFR. But no. Instead the players I hear complaining the most are Heroic and Mythic raiders who want content for their alts. It confuses the hell out of me.

[Killadrix]

I think LFR kills sub numbers because it allows people to see all the content they want without making a single friend. Its the friendships that compel people to stay subbed even when the content is lacking. Once people unsub, its easy to forget the game.

I think this game could go to 30 million subs but the antisocial tools must go. Unfortunately, they added ANOTHER antisocial feature in legion with the DISASTEROUS Suramar quest system. That's yet another thing that needs to be removed but it wont be.

Without LFR, subs would be dramatically higher and you'd have more raiders overall, even if a lower percentage were actually raiding.

This is easily the most misguided thing I've read on these forums in a long time.

rofl...

[Jtbrig7390]

The biggest problem with LFR is that it is an activity that you can afk though with /follow on for something like 2 hours a week rewarding gear that is better than all other non-raid gear, thus almost instantaneously rendering all non-raid content obsolete. Especially since Blizzard over the years have increased the number of raid drops per boss and player by about 500%.

You judge the full content based on a small few who abuse it.

Show me a video of 25 people 100% afk and beating LFR....

[Plutarch78]

I think LFR kills sub numbers because it allows people to see all the content they want without making a single friend. Its the friendships that compel people to stay subbed even when the content is lacking. Once people unsub, its easy to forget the game.

I think this game could go to 30 million subs but the antisocial tools must go. Unfortunately, they added ANOTHER antisocial feature in legion with the DISASTEROUS Suramar quest system. That's yet another thing that needs to be removed but it wont be.

Without LFR, subs would be dramatically higher and you'd have more raiders overall, even if a lower percentage were actually raiding.

That makes absolutely no sense. None whatsoever. We're talking about a 12 year old game, remember? How many times people are going to stay entertained with the gear treadmill??? Raid, rinse, repeat next expansion.

Another one stuck in the vanilla/BC past.

[Jeniwyn]

You judge the full content based on a small few who abuse it.

Show me a video of 25 people 100% afk and beating LFR....

What, no. I'm saying that you can. It is a testament to the nature of the content as intended to be very close to foolproof and demanding a very low level of effort from the average participant and an additional safeguard in the wipe buff. If the answer to the riddle is that the players in this segment think that LFR is a better endgame than 5 and 10 man instances released over the course of an expansion then all is good. Do you think that is the case?

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Every bit of non-raid content in 7.2 offers better gear than what is available in HFC

Oh, I didn't know that. That's what you get for missing a raid tier I guess, I've been playing "those other servers" waiting for retail to (hopefully at some point) interest me again. That is a huge step in the right direction at least. Perhaps there is hope after all. When I said so long and thanks for all the epics LFR was still doubling as tourist mode and endgame. I'm glad they decided to stop screwing non raiders over that badly.

[nekobaka]

I assume this is the source of OP as none are listed. http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Tweets-DLC-439
LFR numbers drop to 51.2% for Garash LFR. An interesting participating fall off of about 20%. Why would so many stop so short of experiencing the whole story.

[stomination]

Every bit of non-raid content in 7.2 offers better gear than what is available in HFC LFR. TJ offers Baleful gear, PVP offers honor and conquest gear (both better than LFR gear), Mythic dungeons offers equal and possibly better gear as well.

Yea but that was once again available pre tanaan.

[Baine]

To OP: If raid finder do not pays for raid development (raid existed before LFR), it however justifies creation of larger raids. So, I would answer yes and no to your question.

[Deleted]

What are the actual development/asset distribution numbers that are spread across the various types of content?

[Relapses]

I assume this is the source of OP as none are listed. http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Tweets-DLC-439
LFR numbers drop to 51.2% for Garash LFR. An interesting participating fall off of about 20%. Why would so many stop so short of experiencing the whole story.

LFR in SoO was much different than our current LFR iteration. I'm a bit concerned with the OP using numbers from an entirely different expansion to support a criticism of the current expansion but in reality this is just another "LFR sux 2 ez y u no maek rael challnenjour bl1zz" thread disguised as an attempt to elicit intelligent discussion.

[Vichan]

I think LFR kills sub numbers because it allows people to see all the content they want without making a single friend. Its the friendships that compel people to stay subbed even when the content is lacking. Once people unsub, its easy to forget the game.

I think this game could go to 30 million subs but the antisocial tools must go. Unfortunately, they added ANOTHER antisocial feature in legion with the DISASTEROUS Suramar quest system. That's yet another thing that needs to be removed but it wont be.

Without LFR, subs would be dramatically higher and you'd have more raiders overall, even if a lower percentage were actually raiding.

No you wouldn't, remember, blizzard has said time and time again that most people didn't even get to raid pre-lfr so how is getting rid of lfr making the pool of raiders bigger?

[tj119]

LFR is an excuse for Blizzard to be lazy and give us nothing but raiding as our end game content. Raiding isn't for everyone, and it shouldn't be. Vast majority of players in LFR have no business ever stepping foot into a raid.

[Relapses]

LFR is an excuse for Blizzard to be lazy and give us nothing but raiding as our end game content. Raiding isn't for everyone, and it shouldn't be. Vast majority of players in LFR have no business ever stepping foot into a raid.

While that may have been the case in WoD, it appears Legion is going another direction. Just because LFR isn't changing doesn't mean Blizzard isn't able to appease the many players who may look for content in WoW outside of raiding.