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  1. #141
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    LFR is not raiding. At best is an active dummy.

  2. #142
    Herald of the Titans Baine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kreebs View Post
    LFR is not raiding. At best is an active dummy.
    LFR is raiding but not organized raiding. Say it is not raiding as much as you want, but techically speaking, it is raiding. Just not organized raiding.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by tj119 View Post
    LFR is an excuse for Blizzard to be lazy and give us nothing but raiding as our end game content. Raiding isn't for everyone, and it shouldn't be. Vast majority of players in LFR have no business ever stepping foot into a raid.
    Oh pardon us your highness! We really should know our place!


  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Oh pardon us your highness! We really should know our place!

    I think his point was... or at least I think it was that players who tend to only play lfr would be better served by world content and dungeons both legion provides for in quite a bit.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    That would definitly make more sense than LFR. At least it could be meaningful content rather than just a zerg that spoils your end-game.
    What would spoil my end-game is getting stuck on a schedule where I have to meet up with the same group of people (whom I may not even like) twice a week or more and slowly, slowly progress through scripted boss encounters, sometimes fighting the exact same boss 40 or 50 times in a row. Gawd, that just sounds insanely boring and miserable.

    The quick action and crazy chaos of LFR suits me just fine as long as Blizzard makes it moderately challenging for average players (like it was in MoP) and provides interesting and useful rewards.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Baine View Post
    To OP: If raid finder do not pays for raid development (raid existed before LFR), it however justifies creation of larger raids. So, I would answer yes and no to your question.
    Nah the removing one tier lets them create larger raids.

  7. #147
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tj119 View Post
    LFR is an excuse for Blizzard to be lazy and give us nothing but raiding as our end game content. Raiding isn't for everyone, and it shouldn't be. Vast majority of players in LFR have no business ever stepping foot into a raid.
    Yeah, except raids cost a metric crapton of resources to develop, and Blizzard finally got the message that designing content for 5% of players with the resources from the whole playerbase is a completely retarded idea. (no way the devs understood that on their own, the finance department must have told them).

    So we have three possibilities:
    - LFR to justify raid costs
    - Small raids with rehashed assets
    - Raids come as DLCs (probably in the 5-10$) range to pay for their development costs. You want to raid? Poney the heck up.
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  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Baine View Post
    LFR is raiding but not organized raiding. Say it is not raiding as much as you want, but techically speaking, it is raiding. Just not organized raiding.
    Doesn't matter what you want to call LFR. The only point is you can't create a bunch of content in the game which most subscribers don't see. LFR is the solution and it's not going away.

  9. #149
    Herald of the Titans Racthoh's Avatar
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    LFr haters be like - "there should only be 1 raid difficulty. and it doesn't drop any loot. and every mechanic 1 shots you. and you get no achievements or nothing for clearing it. and when you finally do your character is deleted and your account is retired so you can finally go outside again."

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    Doesn't matter what you want to call LFR. The only point is you can't create a bunch of content in the game which most subscribers don't see. LFR is the solution and it's not going away.
    Sure you can. The most profitable mmo's to exist vanilla wow, Burning crusade, and wrath of the lich king all used this model. So far no release has rivaled what they made cash wise.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    I think his point was... or at least I think it was that players who tend to only play lfr would be better served by world content and dungeons both legion provides for in quite a bit.
    People want all that and LFR. I don't think it is unreasonable to do all of those things. Variety is the spice of life. If it pisses off a bunch of pretentious wankers that we get to see their content then so much the better.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    People want all that and LFR. I don't think it is unreasonable to do all of those things. Variety is the spice of life. If it pisses off a bunch of pretentious wankers that we get to see their content then so much the better.
    It tends to piss off people who don't do that content. Rather then the other way around.

    The problem I have with lfr remains the same. Once it is released all casual content upto raiding normal modes instantly becomes null and void in terms of progression and becomes a roflstomp.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I think this game could go to 30 million subs but the antisocial tools must go. Unfortunately, they added ANOTHER antisocial feature in legion with the DISASTEROUS Suramar quest system. That's yet another thing that needs to be removed but it wont be.
    The suramar quest is one of the best things in legion, for everyone. It gives u something to do on non-raid-days which is just fun, u dont do it for rewards (since there arent any)
    Sure this game is an mmo, but the singleplayer quest system is one of the big parts every mmo has and needs
    besides, not everyone raids.

  14. #154
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    Sure you can. The most profitable mmo's to exist vanilla wow, Burning crusade, and wrath of the lich king all used this model. So far no release has rivaled what they made cash wise.
    Yeah, let's conveniently ignore the fact that stuff that worked 10 years ago no longer works now because the playerbase completely changed (or, which amounts to the same thing, their playing habits changed).
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  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Yeah, let's conveniently ignore the fact that stuff that worked 10 years ago no longer works now because the playerbase completely changed (or, which amounts to the same thing, their playing habits changed).
    We have proof of this how?

  16. #156
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    We have proof of this how?
    Proof of what? Of MOBAs and mobile games taking off in full force? Or of people getting older, thus getting families and having less time to play?
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  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Proof of what? Of MOBAs and mobile games taking off in full force? Or of people getting older, thus getting families and having less time to play?
    We know these are the same people how exactly? You are just making up vague statements that some people are not the same you haven't shown any cross over...

  18. #158
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    I think the argument makes sense. For years they banged there heads against a brickwall of trying to get players to get better at the game.

    In TBC they offered Dungeons>Heroic Dungeons>Raid10>Small25s>Big25>catch up island>dungeon>raid25 but players still couldn't manage this

    In Wotlk they offered Dungeons>heroic Dungeons plus a matchmaking tool>raid10/25>Catchup dungeon>raid with choosable difficulty & gear available in upgradable token form>dungeon>more token gear>raid 10/10hc/25/25hc

    Still the players couldn't manage this.

    In cata they thought they could force everyone to get better by making dungeons more punishing, but players couldn't cope with this. Massive cryfest on forums. Then they added catchup dungeons rehashed from old raids, but players still struggled.

    So then they offered up LFR, players still couldn't cope with this and moaned until it was nerfed to what we get today.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    The only point is you can't create a bunch of content in the game which most subscribers don't see. LFR is the solution and it's not going away.
    They could. The devs just wont be able to justify the additional chunk of resources they took from non-raid content which still has a higher participation rate than raiding including LFR. The devs also wouldnt be able to justify flat out canceling non-raid content in order to rush out the last 13 boss raid tier in an expansion anemic with non-raid content. Actually I dont know how the devs justified that last one outside of stubborn selfishness.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Racthoh View Post
    LFr haters be like - "there should only be 1 raid difficulty. and it doesn't drop any loot. and every mechanic 1 shots you. and you get no achievements or nothing for clearing it. and when you finally do your character is deleted and your account is retired so you can finally go outside again."
    Most high progression mythic raiders go outside more often then the other people.

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