Predicting the meta!

[Zoidberg747]

Exactly, this game meta is 5 core heroes, 10 floaters and 5 garbages.

5 Garbages? I get Torby and Hanzo but who else would you consider garbage?

Am I missing something with Winston? His damage is really, really low and his shield is weak. He has great mobility, but other than the potential panic factor, I don't see what he does that another tank just doesn't do better.

His damage is higher than D. Va actually. His shield isn't great but its not bad at all. His mobility is what makes him so good because he can easily jump behind enemy lines and take out the supports and snipers. They've had to nerf him over and over because on paper you would think he wouldn't be that good but he is arguably the best tank in the game(there are more Winston's picked in competitive than Reinhardts). Two Winstons is even better because they can team up and their damage adds up.

[jellmoo]

His damage is higher than D. Va actually. His shield isn't great but its not bad at all. His mobility is what makes him so good because he can easily jump behind enemy lines and take out the supports and snipers. They've had to nerf him over and over because on paper you would think he wouldn't be that good but he is arguably the best tank in the game(there are more Winston's picked in competitive than Reinhardts). Two Winstons is even better because they can team up and their damage adds up.

I'm not sure that's true though. D.va can get headshots, whereas Winston cannot.

[Didrah]

Thats part of why a pro meta always comes out. If everyone was identical like in Quake and UT, there is no "meta" in term of player, only their weaponary usages. Zennyata for exemple is garbage right now. Thats meta. Nobody picks him in competitive, his garbageness is not even subjective, its plain out there to see for everyone. He heals slowly, he walks slower, he has less health, he has no mobility modification (other then slower walk speed lol), then all the other healers. He serves no purpose that Lucio cannot do better and he cannot compete with Mercy either as a damage increase, because mercy is harder to kill and has an utility neither he or lucio have.

The meta is that most defensive heroes are situational, all offensive heroes see play even on defense. Tanks that are not roadhog are all pretty well established. Roadhog not having a shield system make him highly situational and a ult battlery for the other team. He also comes with the biggest head shot box of the entire cast. In pub that might not matter, but in competitive it sure does. So nobody picks him. Not if hes gona take Reindhart or Winston spot.

Its meta when its all technical things that will definitively do a difference in the game. Example: You need a flanker to kill the other team widow maker. There is multiple ways to go about it (thats still meta). One of the tank can switch to winston. One of the damage can go Reaper or genji. The meta is flexible, but its still meta. Your choice will depend on whats on that widow makers team, whats on your team and finally who ever is doing the switch, who is he more comfortable fighting as, because when you switch to counter a hero killing that hero will be easy, you still gotta be strong enough to fight the other heroes on the enemy team. So if you know you suck at genji, mabye you are a better reaper or if you arent comfortable playing neither, perhaps one tank is better of going winston if hes not already.

I agree completely! You can look back in the past... CS 1.6 days... that game had a meta, nobody called it a meta but it was there: AK, Colt, AWP, USP, Glock and Desert. The other weapons were complete garbage and saw little to no play at all.

This game does not have weapon variety but instead has hero variety and there will always be those who excel and those who completely suck.. That's how the meta is built.

[Mormolyce]

Thats part of why a pro meta always comes out. If everyone was identical like in Quake and UT, there is no "meta" in term of player, only their weaponary usages. Zennyata for exemple is garbage right now. Thats meta. Nobody picks him in competitive, his garbageness is not even subjective, its plain out there to see for everyone. He heals slowly, he walks slower, he has less health, he has no mobility modification (other then slower walk speed lol), then all the other healers. He serves no purpose that Lucio cannot do better and he cannot compete with Mercy either as a damage increase, because mercy is harder to kill and has an utility neither he or lucio have.

The meta is that most defensive heroes are situational, all offensive heroes see play even on defense. Tanks that are not roadhog are all pretty well established. Roadhog not having a shield system make him highly situational and a ult battlery for the other team. He also comes with the biggest head shot box of the entire cast. In pub that might not matter, but in competitive it sure does. So nobody picks him. Not if hes gona take Reindhart or Winston spot.

Its meta when its all technical things that will definitively do a difference in the game. Example: You need a flanker to kill the other team widow maker. There is multiple ways to go about it (thats still meta). One of the tank can switch to winston. One of the damage can go Reaper or genji. The meta is flexible, but its still meta. Your choice will depend on whats on that widow makers team, whats on your team and finally who ever is doing the switch, who is he more comfortable fighting as, because when you switch to counter a hero killing that hero will be easy, you still gotta be strong enough to fight the other heroes on the enemy team. So if you know you suck at genji, mabye you are a better reaper or if you arent comfortable playing neither, perhaps one tank is better of going winston if hes not already.

I'm not saying there won't be a meta. I'm saying it won't be anything as simple as damage or whatever. It'll probably be more, if they have X and it's giving you trouble, try swapping to Y.

Also Zenyatta isn't a healer. And you don't always need a healer.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly, this game meta is 5 core heroes, 10 floaters and 5 garbages.

Namely?

Am I missing something with Winston? His damage is really, really low and his shield is weak. He has great mobility, but other than the potential panic factor, I don't see what he does that another tank just doesn't do better.

His damage is okay, certain heroes can't do anything about that constant no-aim damage. Personally I find him extremely squishy outside of his bubble though. And Bastion destroys that bubble.

[minteK917]

[Demoncrash]

While i do think you can mix n match heroes in other roles, the support role is pretty much locked in with Mercy + Lucio.

The resurrection + damage amp/heal(Mercy) and shield + heal/move speed aura(Lucio) are just so damn good, that it's almost as if you're playing with a handicap if you don't have them. Compared to those two, Zenyatta's kit is underwhelming and Symmetra's is just laughable.

This is from what i saw in player run pre-made tourneys during the closed beta and of course, applies to high level competitive play. If you're just playing in pubs, run 6 Bastions/Torbjorns and you can probably face roll to victory. Cause every retard and his uncle will pick a hero they love and will not switch no matter what.

[Xkiller9000]

Tank: Reinhardt > Winston >= Zarya
Healer: Lucio > Mercy
Defense: Torb >= Hanzo > Mei
Offense: Reaper > Soldier > Genji > Mcgree

[Saverem]

I like how Lucio is literally off the chart.

[Mormolyce]

Mercy in the top 4, Mei bottom rank?

Okay, now I know not to take that graph seriously.

[Deleted]

Mercy in the top 4, Mei bottom rank?

Okay, now I know not to take that graph seriously.

Do you know how to read a chart like that? Honest question.

Little tip: check the legend on the left. Look at it. Read it. Now check the chart again. Do it few times. Then maybe.. maybe you'll see why Mercy is so high up there...

Didn't you have basic statistics/graph (whatever it is called in your country) in school?

[DesMephisto]

Junkrat is life junkrat is god

[Mormolyce]

Do you know how to read a chart like that? Honest question.

Little tip: check the legend on the left. Look at it. Read it. Now check the chart again. Do it few times. Then maybe.. maybe you'll see why Mercy is so high up there...

Didn't you have basic statistics/graph (whatever it is called in your country) in school?

I read your legend. I know what it means. What exactly do you object to?

P.S. I run statistics for a bank for a living

[Sanct]

Mercy in the top 4, Mei bottom rank?

Okay, now I know not to take that graph seriously.

It is Competitive Overwatch Hero Usage, after all. Quick Match statistics will obviously be much different. But the meta conversation doesn't really apply to pub matches.

[Tojara]

Why are people surprised there is a meta?

There is like 100 or 120 heroes in both DoTA and LoL, and despite all the diversity there (with all their items), it still gets narrowed down to a couple dozen heroes at best.

It's not surprising that there will be a meta in a game like Overwatch which houses 21 different characters, all with different strengths and abilities. While they are mostly unique, there is overlap and slight balance problems which causes one hero to be distinctively better than another at that role nearly 100% of the time. You can yell until you're blue in the face that in a game with swaps a meta can't exist and that counters exist for every hero, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that nearly all of the time certain heroes are just flat out better.

I don't see how it's bad, and I don't see how people are arguing here that a meta can't exist in this game. Metas aren't bad thing, and more often than not for the majority of the player base it isn't going to matter anyway.

Metas in all of these games (whether you're talking MoBas or Overwatch for instance) are just whats generally the best at the highest pinnacle of play. Half of the time it doesn't correlate to the lower echelons of pub play, nor does it always apply to group play with less skilled players. You can literally pick the worst competitive heroes in a pug and win games, even if you're playing against a team that picks the 'meta' because in most styles of the game most people probably aren't good enough to make it work. Furthermore, you can literally pick the perfect on paper counters to every single hero in this game and still lose because the other team is just better.

Metas are going to exist regardless of people saying they won't in this game. Thing is you can, and probably should ignore talks about them anyway because it doesn't apply to 99% of the user base anyways.

Best way to relax metas is to look at why certain heroes are stronger compared to others, or simply add more map pools that bring out the strengths of certain heroes a bit more.

You would be silly to try and make an argument as to why Lucio isn't the strongest support, so much so that it's fairly common near the top to see multiple of them because of how strong his toolkit is (speed, easy healing, hard to kill, reliable ultimate, and a knockback). Mercy is still strong and used mind you, but the other two supports are pretty bad in comparison.

[glinks]

The comps will assuredly be 2 support, 1 tank, and 3 dps. Lucio and Mercy seem like necessities, as well as reinhardt.

[Tojara]

The comps will assuredly be 2 support, 1 tank, and 3 dps. Lucio and Mercy seem like necessities, as well as reinhardt.

Depends on the map. Mercy while great, isn't as amazing as Lucio on king of the hill maps. Mostly because while her rez is great, it's pretty hard to get a meaningful one off at the right time without getting zerged to death prior. Meanwhile Lucios ultimate is far more reliable and can kill a lot of momentum from other ultimates, either giving you time to interrupt something, or giving you an extra buffer to just live through it. The other thing Lucio has going for him on these maps is speed is king, and a few of them have pitfalls where his secondary fire can shine.

Mercy is pretty good on offense or defense. We aren't the best by any means, but we typically almost always ran a Lucio on every map and sometimes two on some maps.

Reinhardt a lot like Mercy isn't the best at king of the hill maps. Can still be pulled in some circumstances, but that's the case with a lot of the heroes in the game.

2 supports is pretty common though, but two tanks is pretty common as well. Double Winston in a lot of scenarios is very good, as is Reinhardt + Winston, or Reinhardt + Zarya.

[minteK917]

Mercy in the top 4, Mei bottom rank?

Okay, now I know not to take that graph seriously.

Those stats are of all the recorded competitive matches done after the last patch before release, its the only one you can take seriously at all. Double healer is the way to play and the only possible combos are double lucios or lucio + mercy. Hence shes top 4. Lucio negates Mei, Lucio is in every single game of every single gametypes and map...... nobody gona play her because of that. Hanzo does lower damage next to widowmaker and is harder to use. Nobody gona waste their time using him. Turret heroes can only surprise people for one death, then they are useless.

[Mormolyce]

It is Competitive Overwatch Hero Usage, after all. Quick Match statistics will obviously be much different. But the meta conversation doesn't really apply to pub matches.

Maybe I'm prejudiced playing D.Va but I basically consider Mercy a free kill.

[epLe]

The competetive scene was filled with just the same people as pubs. People using strafe instead of mouse movements to aim, sticking with their "main" regardless of being choked or roflstomped.

TBH most people referring to the metagame or the metasetup doesnt understand what themself even are saying.

[minteK917]

The competetive scene was filled with just the same people as pubs. People using strafe instead of mouse movements to aim, sticking with their "main" regardless of being choked or roflstomped.

TBH most people referring to the metagame or the metasetup doesnt understand what themself even are saying.

Many words, that means nothing. Love this kind of posts. Those stats arent taken same as pubs people at all, the very fact everyone is forced to be on voice chat is already big difference enough. Lots of the players in them are pro cs, tf2, players lol. Clearly pub stats. Good players will use both strafe and mouse movement to aim... not sure why you bringing this up in any way or how this even make sense to bring up. We already know this since mid 90s fps.

About Dva vs mercy, theres nothing Dva can do against mercy played in meta. Mercy is always played along with lucio. Dva does low damage, hence she does nothing to mercy. Plus shes very squishy for a tank, getting to enemy mercy in competitive puts you in heavy fire position, you need to be able to kill her quickly or disrupt their team, Winston and Reindhart are both much better at this.