[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Deleted]

Speaking honestly, I'm not really expecting the changes we want / need.

You're not alone with such expectations.. How long have all those problems been mentioned? Since mid-alpha?
Until now they just took some "small" things and gave them to Ret, hoping we will be happy, because we got what we asked for. Consecration (as a talent lol), Divine Purpose (as a talent lol) for example.
I don't know, but I'm losing hope with every build. If they won't change things in the next one or two builds, I don't think they will change anything.
The US Feedback Thread has the most posts and views of all damn feedback threads and most people mentioned the same problems over and over.. If everything will be ignored in the next builds, I don't believe people will even give feedback any longer.
After watching Thete's dungeon video on youtube, I thought "nice, Ret is an Anti-PvE specc now", even if his damage was quite good. But I have seen most of the problems inside that one dungeon video in action. Shitty movement and what happens, if Greater Blessings are gone because they stupidly just want to be gone for the sake of being gone and you have a stupid tank who pulls before you can buff your blessings again. Stupid "consensus" talents, because we no longer can change our talents freely and that stupid feeling if you have to change your target after using Judgement on your first one.
Ret is such a damn mess in Legion that I don't even have fun to raid NOW as a ret any longer, because I know how shitty it will get in a few months.

@Ulthane
Have seen you big post/posts on the US Feedback thread. Thanks for your efforts I hope they will take something from it at least.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Rets aren't the only ones needing a lot of love teehee. I mean if I have to endure the bullshit we have to do in Legion so be it but it will be....difficult to do so.

[Snegovik]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...21?page=14#274

Went ham

Just read your post mate, good work and thx for ur time. Now lets wait and see what will be Blizzard's next move.

[Temna]

Rets aren't the only ones needing a lot of love teehee. I mean if I have to endure the bullshit we have to do in Legion so be it but it will be....difficult to do so.

Yee, as someone who loves the arms warrior fantasy I would love to see their mess cleaned up right quick, mainly because their weapon is beautiful and it makes me want to play it but the feedback im hearing is ehhhhh :/

Also survival hunters...I want that to work SO BAD.

Still...my home will be my paladin and come hell or high water it will work...but the difference will be will it work smoothly or will we have to MacGyver it to all feth?

[Deleted]

I hope all the PVE heroes who main RET do not forget that there is also a PVP side that needs to be viable! So if you give feedback on something then keep in mind that the talent etc. could be something useful in PVP!

[Reghame]

I hope all the PVE heroes who main RET do not forget that there is also a PVP side that needs to be viable! So if you give feedback on something then keep in mind that the talent etc. could be something useful in PVP!

ret in PVE will hardly have anything to do with ret in PVP since there is templates and PVP talents now, so im not all too worried about it.

[Snegovik]

I hope all the PVE heroes who main RET do not forget that there is also a PVP side that needs to be viable! So if you give feedback on something then keep in mind that the talent etc. could be something useful in PVP!

Ulthane left a long-good feedback on beta-forum, he also covered major pvp aspects, I was also worrying about it at first, but after reading beta forums, overall feed back covers pretty well both pvp and pve aspects of the game.

Saying all that, i highly doubt Blizzard will make Rets GOOD in rated pvp =(

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I have experience in PVP


But only for Holy Paladins(Got the Vicious Mount in MoP /flex)

[Snegovik]

ret in PVE will hardly have anything to do with ret in PVP since there is templates and PVP talents now, so im not all too worried about it.

I think he ment design / ability balancing rather than stats/numbers

[Temna]

I think he ment design / ability balancing rather than stats/numbers

Even then there are some overlaps (mobility, rotation a smidge, survivability), any major gap could be handled through a pvp talent but those baseline issues overlap. The talents should smooth out the gaps I feel.

[Snegovik]

Even then there are some overlaps (mobility, rotation a smidge, survivability), any major gap could be handled through a pvp talent but those baseline issues overlap. The talents should smooth out the gaps I feel.

Yes for the most part, given Blizzard will design our pvp trees properly, but some adjustment i think both pve and pvp builds require like mobility for an example (as you mentioned yourself).

[Padix]

I hope all the PVE heroes who main RET do not forget that there is also a PVP side that needs to be viable! So if you give feedback on something then keep in mind that the talent etc. could be something useful in PVP!

Not everyone gives 2 cents about PVP, and if those people are giving feedback based on their PVE experience only, then that is what the Devs will receive. I hate pvp with a passion and could care less about how my feedback deals with pvp. I know this may sound rude, but for years PVE has suffered because of PVP and that is finally over. So anyone like me who only deals with PVE will not give any kind of PVP thought.

[Snegovik]

Not everyone gives 2 cents about PVP, and if those people are giving feedback based on their PVE experience only, then that is what the Devs will receive. I hate pvp with a passion and could care less about how my feedback deals with pvp. I know this may sound rude, but for years PVE has suffered because of PVP and that is finally over. So anyone like me who only deals with PVE will not give any kind of PVP thought.

PvP suffered from PVE since Vanila, so there is that. I actually agree with you, that ppl who don;t pvp, should not give their feed back about PvP.

[Padix]

PvP suffered from PVE since Vanila, so there is that. I actually agree with you, that ppl who don;t pvp, should not give their feed back about PvP.

I actually think vanilla was about the only time I enjoyed pvp.

[Bolt66]

PvP suffered from PVE since Vanila, so there is that. I actually agree with you, that ppl who don;t pvp, should not give their feed back about PvP.

I usually indicate my feedback is from a PVE perspective because while I'm not a big PVPer, I'd like to be viable if I decide that should change.

Right now Ret has the longest feedback thread (edging out Havoc by a page) so if that doesn't indicate an issue to the devs I don't know what will. Hopefully we'll see some feedback or changes next week.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I usually indicate my feedback is from a PVE perspective because while I'm not a big PVPer, I'd like to be viable if I decide that should change.

Right now Ret has the longest feedback thread (edging out Havoc by a page) so if that doesn't indicate an issue to the devs I don't know what will. Hopefully we'll see some feedback or changes next week.

Well there's always the agenda of "The most played spec", they can always argument ALL the Ret changes as a means to lower the population of Rets.
Nit like they did that previously already...

[Bolt66]

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Well there's always the agenda of "The most played spec", they can always argument ALL the Ret changes as a means to lower the population of Rets.
Nit like they did that previously already...

That's certainly an argument (and one that I've used myself). Even so, that much negative feedback "should" count for something. At the end of the day we can just put our comments there and hope unless someone here is high up in the chain of command at Blizz and has just been holding out on us for 10 years.

[Snegovik]

I actually think vanilla was about the only time I enjoyed pvp.

I didnt enjoy casual or premade BGs as much, but vanilla had the best wpvp hands down for sure, so def miss ganging ppl as they were trying to enter MC or BWL =)....good times.

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Right now Ret has the longest feedback thread (edging out Havoc by a page) so if that doesn't indicate an issue to the devs I don't know what will. Hopefully we'll see some feedback or changes next week.

Yeh I agree, every1 left some good feed back from both pvp and pve POV, so it is all in Blizzard's hands now, gotta wait and see for next build and see if they going to do anything about it, but i do find it encouraging that 99% of Ret's feedback is overall negative when it comes to design of Ret spec, so lets hope Blizzard will finally hear the Ret community and adjust Spec the way its customers desire, not based on Devs' mistaken POV of what "should be" like a fun spec to play.

[Taeldorian]

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That's certainly an argument (and one that I've used myself). Even so, that much negative feedback "should" count for something. At the end of the day we can just put our comments there and hope unless someone here is high up in the chain of command at Blizz and has just been holding out on us for 10 years.

I know you probably meant nothing by it but by no means were we bad for 10 years straight. We were good in BC and we were insane in wrath, I personally believe we're still suffering from the nerf that hit us after Wrath. We got destroyed by the nerf bat. MoP ret was decent but the numbers we were putting out equated to absolute trash for most of the expac. The spec itself was fun though.

Obviously some could argue WoD was one of our best iterations, but that's heavily influenced by opinion. If we were going by numbers and facts, wrath would take the cake. All depends on what you want for a spec. Do you want it to have good numbers or be fun? Hard (high skill cap) or easy (low skill cap)? Should it have good numbers, be easy and fun, or should it have good numbers, be hard and fun?

I mean it's not like we need a lot of work as ret, we are literally right on the verge of having a good spec that's both fun and can pump out decent numbers. 1 decent sized change or 2 small changes could put everything into place but without said changes we're left in the dust. I agree with you about the feedback thread, I've already said what I had to in there as I don't like spamming it but I look every day to see how many people are speaking up. It's good to see that our thread is so long. The more people we have that tell Blizzard the spec is ass in it's current form the more likely it is to change.

[ruiizu]

I know you probably meant nothing by it but by no means were we bad for 10 years straight. We were good in BC and we were insane in wrath, I personally believe we're still suffering from the nerf that hit us after Wrath. We got destroyed by the nerf bat. MoP ret was decent but the numbers we were putting out equated to absolute trash for most of the expac. The spec itself was fun though.

Obviously some could argue WoD was one of our best iterations, but that's heavily influenced by opinion. If we were going by numbers and facts, wrath would take the cake. All depends on what you want for a spec. Do you want it to have good numbers or be fun? Hard (high skill cap) or easy (low skill cap)? Should it have good numbers, be easy and fun, or should it have good numbers, be hard and fun?

I mean it's not like we need a lot of work as ret, we are literally right on the verge of having a good spec that's both fun and can pump out decent numbers. 1 decent sized change or 2 small changes could put everything into place but without said changes we're left in the dust. I agree with you about the feedback thread, I've already said what I had to in there as I don't like spamming it but I look every day to see how many people are speaking up. It's good to see that our thread is so long. The more people we have that tell Blizzard the spec is ass in it's current form the more likely it is to change.

Call it what it is. We never recovered fully from the Wrath nerfs. It was our finest hour, and while there are many who believe it was a time of no skill, that's hogwash. I raided with several rets and there was also a huge gap in damage between who was good and who wasn't, the same in PvP.

I've enjoyed Ret in WoD pretty thoroughly, as I love procs. I can't say I was a huge fan of it in MoP, and I had mixed feelings in Cata as you can imagine (my favorite thing actually was Art of War).

Beta isn't looking too great to me. It's not that we're not strong--we are in some ways pretty powerful. I actually found myself doing more damage leveling than my Warrior as Fury. But Fury was so much more fun. It felt like there was always something to do and there were damage windows for it as well, just done differently and less frequently. Survival was horrible, but it was more fun.

Ret felt solid in terms of my ability to survive (not taking 30% more damage is a big reason for that compared to Fury), it just felt really clumsy attacking. I'm so used to "pulling" mobs with Judgment and Exorcism, but now that feels odd because it doesn't generate Holy Power and it means I'm 12 seconds away from doing "real" damage to targets. And yes, TV hits for crap without Judgment up. Talking like 30-40k vs. 80k (it's basically double).

One other thing: oddly enough it really sucks not having any DoTs and auto-attack being super weak. When something gets to low HP, we have no Execute, so it doesn't really die unless you use a real hit. This is a big consequence of the new design, namely...

If all our attacks do 150-600% weapon damage, that means our 100% damage auto-attack is seriously insignificant. With no Seals or DoTs, we're at the first time ever where you can almost ignore auto-swing as a big factor. Anyway, I'm not having much fun on Beta, so not sure how much I'll be testing.