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  1. #101
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    If they had used their firearms, this thread would instead be about police brutally using their firearms.
    Close, but not quite.

    People would be questioning why they didn't just use their tazer instead though

  2. #102
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You didn't have a point. Your argument was literally "some people have been wrong about other things in the past, so we have to assume everyone is wrong about everything forever."
    Wrong. I said we have partial video evidence and a coroner's opinion (appeal to authority). He said "knee to the chest", officers say "he was stomach down." What does the video say? We, the people reading the article, can't see because it's been edited. It's nothing new for a MAJOR news website to spin something for hits. Remember Zimmerman saying "Coon" being a bullshit lie?

  3. #103
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    Wrong. I said we have partial video evidence and a coroner's opinion (appeal to authority).

    He said "knee to the chest", officers say "he was stomach down."
    He could easily have been using "chest" to refer to "upper torso". Or the two may have been talking about different moments. This really isn't evidence of anything.

    What does the video say? We, the people reading the article, can't see because it's been edited. It's nothing new for a MAJOR news website to spin something for hits. Remember Zimmerman saying "Coon" being a bullshit lie?
    "Observation: we can't see anything. Conclusion: Dinosaurs."



  4. #104
    Titan vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If they jolted him once and he had a heart attack or some other complication, sure, that's accidental.

    Repeatedly tasering the guy while compressing his chest so he can't breathe? If he was THAT much of a threat, they should have used their sidearms. He clearly wasn't, which makes that kind of force unwarranted.

    Also, there's a reason Taser International calls their weapons "less-lethal", not "non-lethal".
    From the taser training I had the taser will not stop your heart. It can cause you to suffocate if used too often as it does stop you from being able to breath. My guess is this is a combination of having someone pressing down on him and whatever drugs he was on that caused his death.

  5. #105
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    He could easily have been using "chest" to refer to "upper torso". Or the two may have been talking about different moments. This really isn't evidence of anything.
    That is possible seeing as how the family's attorney is trying to put as much emotion into this as possible. "Compression of the torso by the body weight of another individual" doesn't tug at your heart strings.

    In which case, how is an officer supposed to subdue a resisting individual without using his body weight? The tasers didn't work so what then?

    "Observation: we can't see anything. Conclusion: Dinosaurs."
    I feel that you're not even trying here. That or you're trying your damnedest to remain ignorant to the possibility of being wrong that you're down playing my argument with borderline insults.

    I am very much aware that a lack of evidence doesn't equate a guarantee of an alternative possibility. What I am doing is questioning every possibility with what little evidence we have. If there is a loose end (edited video) then it needs to be questioned.

    And it's not "we can't see anything" it's "we aren't being shown everything." I would hope you know the difference between the two.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    In which case, how is an officer supposed to subdue a resisting individual without using his body weight? The tasers didn't work so what then?
    Does it not enter your mind that subduing was not necessary? That tactics other than "charge in and start wrestling with him" are available?

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  7. #107
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    I feel that you're not even trying here. That or you're trying your damnedest to remain ignorant to the possibility of being wrong that you're down playing my argument with borderline insults.

    I am very much aware that a lack of evidence doesn't equate a guarantee of an alternative possibility. What I am doing is questioning every possibility with what little evidence we have. If there is a loose end (edited video) then it needs to be questioned.

    And it's not "we can't see anything" it's "we aren't being shown everything." I would hope you know the difference between the two.
    The root issue is that I'm expecting you to provide evidence of any such additional information. You don't get to just make up whatever you want and pretend that it's equivalent to the official reports.

    It's not that I'm "ignorant to the possibility of being wrong", it's that you have no grounds on which to argue that I am. Saying "but it could have been invisible unicorns instead" is just not a convincing argument; you're gonna be expected to provide evidence to back up that claim.


  8. #108
    That's weird. Here we have a special psychiatric units to deal with this in a civilized manner.

    Cops gonna say they followed their instructions, which they probably did. Their strange behavior may be due to their superiors insist on following instructions by letter to not lose job, insurance, retirement...

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    This is basically a post without substance. If you're not going to bother refuting my post with legitimate points why bother posting at all?
    Your entire premise is just shit poor reasoning. "This evidence was false, so therefor this evidence might be too" is the same argument creationists use while pointing to Geocentrism.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    Cops gonna say they followed their instructions, which they probably did. Their strange behavior may be due to their superiors insist on following instructions by letter to not lose job, insurance, retirement...
    And/or the rampant steroid abuse among American police.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If they jolted him once and he had a heart attack or some other complication, sure, that's accidental.

    Repeatedly tasering the guy while compressing his chest so he can't breathe? If he was THAT much of a threat, they should have used their sidearms. He clearly wasn't, which makes that kind of force unwarranted.

    Also, there's a reason Taser International calls their weapons "less-lethal", not "non-lethal".
    If you can talk, you're not being suffocated.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillah View Post
    You would rather send in defenseless EMTs before the cops? Really? Do you want them to get injured or killed, because that's how you will get them injured or killed.
    Haven't read far enough, have you? Answered the question to that later, however if you insist: No, I don't demand solo parades for everyone.
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  13. #113
    I too, wish I could be a Sith Lord for a day.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    From the taser training I had the taser will not stop your heart. It can cause you to suffocate if used too often as it does stop you from being able to breath. My guess is this is a combination of having someone pressing down on him and whatever drugs he was on that caused his death.
    There is actually evidence that the units can cause cardiac arrest. There is a reason that police being trained with tasers are told not to shoot at the center chest area.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tasers-m...s-study-finds/
    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/129/1/101.full
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ths/54688110/1
    What are we gonna do now? Taking off his turban, they said, is this man a Jew?
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    No, this is why you call them both in short order so both arrive more or less synchronously, and you don't just send two policemen. Might sound unusual but it's usually how it's done here.
    That is not how it works. If we get a report of a violent, armed, or anything that would put us ems workers at risk we are to stage until law enforcement secure the scene.

  16. #116
    Titan vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangean View Post
    There is actually evidence that the units can cause cardiac arrest. There is a reason that police being trained with tasers are told not to shoot at the center chest area.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tasers-m...s-study-finds/
    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/129/1/101.full
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ths/54688110/1
    Center of mass is where we are trained to shoot. I went through the training and am fully certified to carry one when on duty.

  17. #117
    Tasers should only be used as an alternative to lethal force.

    If you didn't have a taser, would you shoot this person with your gun? No? Then don't use the taser.
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  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    exactly this. just as with choking. if you can still speak you still have a clear airway and air to expel. he did not even sound winded. he sounded clear and loudly audible.
    Unfortunately, that is untrue.
    You need less air to make sounds than you need to stay alive.
    And having air that goes out does not indicate that you can breathe in.

  19. #119
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    If you can talk, you're not being suffocated.
    So it's impossible for someone to be able to exhale but not be able to inhale?

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  20. #120
    I have to side with the police on this one. How difficult is it for people to understand, do what the police tell you to do. If you have some grievance report it later or get a lawyer. The golden rule applies when dealing with police.

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