[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[ringpriest]

Keep in mind that LF while selling her off to Ramsey was her one protector ever since the shit started going down in KL(except for the Hound) and she likely did see him as sort of an uncle due to his relationship to her mother. So killing him right there without truly good reason and being a semi honorable person herself just isn't something she is likely to do. He had also mentioned bringing an army up to help Jon fight Ramsey so she may think that she needs his help still.

I thought she pretty clearly explained her reasoning - he handed her over to the Boltons, but he also rescued her from the Lannisters; she's not overlooking either one, and thus tells him to go, rather than either trusting or killing him.

[Azrile]

If Bran really can influence the past, i hope they somehow limit that ability because otherwise it could get really messy storywise :/ "Why dont he stop himself from climbing the tower" "why doesnt he save his father" ect....

I think the Hodor situation is unique. Think about it this way.. all the desperation of the last words you hear as you die, being transmitted into your brain. I do not think it was just the Brann connection that made Willis have a siezure, it was also the fact that Hodor was dying while hearing those words.

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If Hodor saying Hodor's explanation was RR's idea from the start and not some ploy the writers came up with on a whim I have to say hats off.

Like it.

Been a while since I said that, seems like all I've done this season is complain.

Hodor definitely was a creation of GRR Martin, there is no way that part was added by D&D.

As someone who writes myself.. Think about this.. He has kept Hodor a secret for 25 years. All this time GRR Martin has known that Hodor would die holding a door. It must be an insane feeling for him to follow twitter and stuff tonight and see fan reaction to stuff like that. 25 years.. holy crap.

[KrazyK923]

I think what's hilarious is that if we didn't know GRRM made up the Hodor thing, you'd have the usual suspects talking about how fucking stupid it and D&D are for writing that. Y'all know for a fact this would happen, don't lie to yourselves.

I saw it happening immediately after the episode ended, but suddenly everybody changed their mind when the "Behind the episode" came out and they said it was GRRM's idea.

[fangless]

Sure it wasn't just made up on the spot, but it's not like this Hodor bit had to have any real planning behind it. Using a form of time travel means they could've fit his scene in basically anywhere without much need for writing.

As soon as the character is able to manipulate the past, you can basically explain any plot point you want :P

People give a bit too much credit to the writing for something just because he said he had the idea from the start.

[RobertoCarlos]

Sure it wasn't just made up on the spot, but it's not like this Hodor bit had to have any real planning behind it. Using a form of time travel means they could've fit his scene in basically anywhere without much need for writing.

As soon as the character is able to manipulate the past, you can basically explain any plot point you want :P

People give a bit too much credit to the writing for something just because he said he had the idea from the start.

I get where you're coming from but to call a character hodor kinda proves it was planned. You cant just re write names mid way through.

[Azrile]

Agreed, plus i also find it weird how Sansa never asked John ''hey, where is my uncle''. She went there with the purpose to find John, she never mentioned Benjen once, like she already knew that he had gone missing. (unless she learned it sometime in the past indeed, i really can't remember so maybe i'm wrong)

Because it would be boring as fuck if every time two character were shown together on the show they had to recount every detail of everything they ( and we) knew. It is safe to assume that they share information off-screen Jon tells Sansa everything about what he experienced, Sansa tells Jon everything she experienced, and only the interesting stuff is shown onscreen. Like Brienne mentioning to Davos about seeing the shadow-killer etc.

Do you really want to watch a 20 minute scene where Sansa tells Jon every detail about everything we saw from her time in King´s landing? Do we really need a scene where Jon says ´yeah, Benjin is lost north of the wall´ and Sansa says´oh, that sucks´.. There is no point in showing stuff unless it is going to affect the future.

They only have 1 hour per episode, there just is no reason for us to rehear stuff we already know.

[kail]

I still don't understand the Hodor bit. I get that we're supposed to believe that Brann's timewalking was what changed him from Willis to "Hodor", but that doesn't explain why he was "Hodor" before Brann timewalked.

This is where time traveling somewhat ruins stories for me, but I am assuming they are using the single time dimension route where everything is destined. Brann was destined to fuck up and require Willis to "hold the door", so the past Willis has met future Brann before Brann was even born.

[Azrile]

He should be in at least kings landing after getting off the boat from dorne with Jamie. We haven't seen him so who knows though.

This is what happens when a plot character over-acts his part. Bronn is not supposed to be a ´character´ on the show.. he was added to achieve a plot objective for Tyrian, but then the actor/part become popular and he was added to the Dorn stuff.. But he plays no part in the wars to come, so will probably just disappear like dozens of other characters. As a writer, you have two choices, disappear into the sunset or random kill-off. There just is not enough space or devices to give everyone a realistic ending to their personal story.

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Also, Actress playing fake sansa was super hot and the new red priestess. Super hotties.

Secret rule for GoT.... never, ever masturbate to a red priestess... it never turns out good.

[Graden]

Because it would be boring as fuck if every time two character were shown together on the show they had to recount every detail of everything they ( and we) knew. It is safe to assume that they share information off-screen Jon tells Sansa everything about what he experienced, Sansa tells Jon everything she experienced, and only the interesting stuff is shown onscreen. Like Brienne mentioning to Davos about seeing the shadow-killer etc.

Do you really want to watch a 20 minute scene where Sansa tells Jon every detail about everything we saw from her time in King´s landing? Do we really need a scene where Jon says ´yeah, Benjin is lost north of the wall´ and Sansa says´oh, that sucks´.. There is no point in showing stuff unless it is going to affect the future.

They only have 1 hour per episode, there just is no reason for us to rehear stuff we already know.

Of course not, but a slight 5 sec mention of Benjen's fate certainly wouldn't hurt the episode, it's not like he was just a guy that Sansa knew, he was her uncle and Starks are almost extinguished, family means everything.

[Leafcast]

Tormund is my favorite character right now. All he has to do is smile awkwardly and harrumph a little. I LOVE how fascinated he is with Brienne. The actor plays his perfectly.

[Azrile]

Very good episode. The end was great..well bad, but great.

What I wish more was watching Bran gain his power and using his ability to travel back in time (Greenseer) for more background. I'm sure they will keep doing this which will be great. Sadly I read some spoilers online and sort of know the back story.

Now I wonder since Bran's Greenseer ability shows he can interact with the past. Will he maybe save his mom and Robb Stark at the wedding? I heard a rumor awhile ago that I think the actress said she might come back. Rumor of course.

If he has the ability to save them in the past, they would already be alive in the present. In other words, the only things he ´can´affect in the past are things which result in the present being exactly the way it is now.

Go watch the vase scene from the matrix. that will really blow your mind.

[Summer]

I don't quite understand the point of Hodor holding the door? Sure they escaped for right then but how far can one girl manage to get dragging Bran behind her in a Blizzard? Won't it be trivial for the WW's to catch those two? Or are they going to get saved by some Deus Ex Machina next episode?

Or if they are being let go on purpose so the WW's can follow them across the wall cause mark, then Hodor and Summer dying made no difference to anything?

[eschatological]

I think what's hilarious is that if we didn't know GRRM made up the Hodor thing, you'd have the usual suspects talking about how fucking stupid it and D&D are for writing that. Y'all know for a fact this would happen, don't lie to yourselves.

I saw it happening immediately after the episode ended, but suddenly everybody changed their mind when the "Behind the episode" came out and they said it was GRRM's idea.

I definitely think the time travel thing and Bran warging into Hodor is stupid, and the timey wimey nonsense, etc, whether GRRM wrote it or not. The idea planted in his mind of needing to "hold [a] door" driving him mad to the point that it's the only thing he said is poignant enough, but I don't think I can take the journey necessary to get there.

[eschatological]

I don't quite understand the point of Hodor holding the door? Sure they escaped for right then but how far can one girl manage to get dragging Bran behind her in a Blizzard? Won't it be trivial for the WW's to catch those two? Or are they going to get saved by some Deus Ex Machina next episode?

Or if they are being let go on purpose so the WW's can follow them across the wall cause mark, then Hodor and Summer dying made no difference to anything?

Also some good points.

[xcess]

I don't quite understand the point of Hodor holding the door? Sure they escaped for right then but how far can one girl manage to get dragging Bran behind her in a Blizzard? Won't it be trivial for the WW's to catch those two? Or are they going to get saved by some Deus Ex Machina next episode?

Or if they are being let go on purpose so the WW's can follow them across the wall cause mark, then Hodor and Summer dying made no difference to anything?

Trailer shows they get helped by someone

[Azrile]

Sure it wasn't just made up on the spot, but it's not like this Hodor bit had to have any real planning behind it. Using a form of time travel means they could've fit his scene in basically anywhere without much need for writing.

As soon as the character is able to manipulate the past, you can basically explain any plot point you want :P

People give a bit too much credit to the writing for something just because he said he had the idea from the start.

You have a giant, that for 25 years (real time) only says 1 word. Then after 25 years you reveal the hold the door moment.

For me, the good writing part is that it is a rather unique situation to have that character to begin with, but then to hold the meaning for so long in the books without revealing it. I mean think about it. Back in 1990ish is when GRR Martin created the word Hodor... and in 2016 is the first time people find out the reason for that name. The closest thing I could think of was the Vygr thing from the original Star Trek movie... but there the first time we heard Vygr to the moment we understood the meaning of the word was only about 2 years. Freakin GRR Martin wrote like 8000 pages of novels and still hasn´t revealed it in the book.

[Panquake]

I don't quite understand the point of Hodor holding the door? Sure they escaped for right then but how far can one girl manage to get dragging Bran behind her in a Blizzard? Won't it be trivial for the WW's to catch those two? Or are they going to get saved by some Deus Ex Machina next episode?

Or if they are being let go on purpose so the WW's can follow them across the wall cause mark, then Hodor and Summer dying made no difference to anything?

Coldhands?

[Azrile]

This is where time traveling somewhat ruins stories for me, but I am assuming they are using the single time dimension route where everything is destined. Brann was destined to fuck up and require Willis to "hold the door", so the past Willis has met future Brann before Brann was even born.

Time Travel, alternative universes and Resurrection almost always ruin any good story.

[Deleted]

I'm definitely calling it now, Bran builds the wall and somehow has some tie to Lyanna's death (they all thought Ned was the victor in that fight, inserted to show history is not always factually true).

I think you are putting way too much on that time travel thing. Just because he planned it once doesn't mean he is going to use it all the time for every unanswered question. That just becomes Lazy writing in the end.

[Ilir]

damn poor hodor... his story was so sad. also how did the girl helping brann kill a whitewalker (not the brainless ones, one of the blue ones) with a shitty spears ? I thought you needed a special kind of weapon to kill them ?