Ghostcrawler: "don't try to be all things to all players"

[SodiumChloride]

The problem is,

Raids are expensive as heck to make.
Raiders are too small in number to pay the bills.

This is why Blizzard is trying to "please everyone".

You can only "don't try to be all things to all players" if you can afford it - i.e. revenue > cost.

Also this is Bobby Kotick's Activision we are talking about,

Maximizing profit >>>>>>> everything else

[Chrno]

Difficulty levels don't cater to everyone, they open up similar experiences.

A dungeon is still a dungeon. A raid is still a raid.

If you do not want a challenge, you have an less difficult (easy) mode. If you want a challenge, you have a more difficult (hard) mode. Forcing people who want the "hard mode" to play through all of the "easy modes" is not a better game. Forcing people to play 1 difficulty with growing rewards is not a better game.

"If you were casuals back in TBC you had Kara, ZA, Grull, Maghteridons lair pugs and tons of relevant dungeons." They should improve relevancy, yes, but they shouldn't take away the ability to experience. Difficulties open up similar experiences. Improving relevancy looks like: update old dungeon rewards so people want to do them, update the experience, (other ideas). It does not look like: take away difficulty settings, only the best may experience the newest content, (other ideas).

Casuals in TBC didn't really raid that much at all .... and maggy was actually bloody hard :P
We took some casuals in kara indeed but that's about it ... Couple of ICC /TK bosses were also doable on off nights (when we farmed BT)

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is,

Raids are expensive as heck to make.
Raiders are too small in number to pay the bills.

This is why Blizzard is trying to "please everyone".

You can only "don't try to be all things to all players" if you can afford it - i.e. revenue > cost.

Also this is Bobby Kotick's Activision we are talking about,

Maximizing profit >>>>>>> everything else

Molten Core was made in 7 days ......

.....

Make LFR's like Molten Core .... more veriety

[Xandrigity]

You can't please everyone. Having a variety of things to fit a variety of customers will always win out. Additional pathways to gear, leveling, pvp is paramount to having a happy customer base.

Oh, and just because Ghostcrawler says one thing doesn't make it so. Obviously, he had a different opinion than the rest of the developers or he would still be there. Cherry picking someone opinions because they fit your agenda, is just that.

[Koloss]

We're talking about MoP. The group finder, in its current incarnation, did not exist. The pugs that did exist on our server for t14/15 when SoO was current were meta achievement pugs, and weren't looking for under-geared tag-alongs.

Yeah i was dumb not even thinking about those two numbers. But why bring up old times? The post itself was one month old, they've fixed this problem already.

[Varaben]

As a player only interested in Mythic raiding, I don't care if Blizzard nerf everything into the ground for casual plebs , I don't care if they add more LFR difficulties or even easier dungeons, none of it matters to me, I don't even care if they add more useless junk like selfie cameras or battle pets.

AS LONG AS they keep making mythic difficulty raids, if these ever get cut for any reason I'm outta here.

Let people play they way they want to play, simple as that.

What you have to realize is that every dollar, every hour, Blizzard spends developing selfie camera and pet battles and LFR is time that isn't being spent on other, challenging content.

So you say you don't care, but wouldn't it be great if they would focus on a few specific content types? Wouldn't that be a better/great game for the target audience, rather than a good game for a lot of audiences? And sure, people will say "But Varaben, the same people aren't working on those different things, so them updating models has no impact on content." No, just no. It's all expense at the end of the day. Every person they hire that isn't working on content I like is a person who could be fired and they could hire someone to make content I DO like.

Is that selfish? Of course, but I wish Blizz would pick a lane and make the best game they can make in that lane instead of straddling 5 lanes. They are worried about sub numbers (though I guess if they aren't reporting sub numbers, maybe they don't care anymore?), instead of making great content.

All that said, Legion beta looks like a lot of fun so far, so I'm just complaining to complain.

[Koloss]

Also this is Bobby Kotick's Activision we are talking about,

Maximizing profit >>>>>>> everything else

Again, blaming a company because it wants to earn money and doesn't give players a game as a charity. Not sure if it's this Bobby Kotick (whoever he is) or how companies work.

[SodiumChloride]

Molten Core was made in 7 days ......

.....

Make LFR's like Molten Core .... more veriety

That was then ... unless you want Blizzard to recycle world mob models for raids.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, blaming a company because it wants to earn money and doesn't give players a game as a charity. Not sure if it's this Bobby Kotick (whoever he is) or how companies work.

I don't know. People can have pride in their work. It isn't always about making the max amount of money. /shrug

[OreoLover]

Casuals in TBC didn't really raid that much at all .... and maggy was actually bloody hard :P
We took some casuals in kara indeed but that's about it ... Couple of ICC /TK bosses were also doable on off nights (when we farmed BT)

Part of that is my point, that the current open content (difficulty settings) allow more to experience it.

I was already burning out by Sunwell Plateau, so I didn't get to experience most of it. In Vanilla, I didn't make it through much of Naxx. From Cata on, I've been able to at least see versions of all the raids, while they're at all current or relevant. MoP even brought in "casual LFR farming," with pets and such. So even on the lower difficulty, one could stick around and farm, for transmog/pets/etc. ...with WoD, that is mostly gone from LFR.

- - - Updated - - -

What you have to realize is that every dollar, every hour, Blizzard spends developing selfie camera and pet battles and LFR is time that isn't being spent on other, challenging content.

So you say you don't care, but wouldn't it be great if they would focus on a few specific content types? Wouldn't that be a better/great game for the target audience, rather than a good game for a lot of audiences? And sure, people will say "But Varaben, the same people aren't working on those different things, so them updating models has no impact on content." No, just no. It's all expense at the end of the day. Every person they hire that isn't working on content I like is a person who could be fired and they could hire someone to make content I DO like.

Is that selfish? Of course, but I wish Blizz would pick a lane and make the best game they can make in that lane instead of straddling 5 lanes. They are worried about sub numbers (though I guess if they aren't reporting sub numbers, maybe they don't care anymore?), instead of making great content.

All that said, Legion beta looks like a lot of fun so far, so I'm just complaining to complain.

They still make great content. Picking one lane would be near-suicide for the game IMO (Wildstar is what people bring up--even though it splits somewhat), so I'm thankful they haven't. ...and LFR requires such teeny-tiny, related resources... though I get what you mean by diluting focus.

[Chrno]

That was then ... unless you want Blizzard to recycle world mob models for raids.

- - - Updated - - -

honestly ... yes .... by all means do that if it means we get 10 more dungeons per expansion ...

[Atherius]

Doing the same raid over and over on different difficulties isn't fun. When I started out in Cata, I joined a guild raiding around 6-9 hours a week. We struggled to clear everything on 25m normal, but ended up clearing normal + 4 heroic bosses before Firelands was released. It was a lot of fun since the bosses where challenging from the first pull. Every raid where lfr/flex has been available from day one has been less enjoyable simply because the first time I pull a boss on lfr/flex with a normal raiding guild, they die on the 1st or 2nd pull. Trying out a new challenging boss for the first time is much more enjoyable than having done said boss on a easier difficulty before, and then doing it on a harder difficulty when the core mechanics are the same.

Releasing LFR 3-4 weeks after the raid is released fixes some of the issues, but most guilds will still kill flex/normal bosses without many problems with crap gear. This, and the fact that you can do every difficulty without getting locked on another, means that most casual players will burn out before they reach mythic (Unless you're in a guild that completes heroic in 1-3 weeks and then progress mythic.)

[Deleted]

Answer this honestly...
If you were in Blizzards shoes, who would you rather please - new and casual or veteran hardcore players? Hope you know casual/hardcore ratio subscription wise...

[Ringthane]

Its like the guy said: "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try and please everyone". http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...sby105051.html

Funny how people now hang on Ghostcrawlers lips. When he was lead designer I hardly ever saw a thread praising his decisions. In fact, didn't he single-handely ruin WoW?

Yes, yes, he did. Before holinka, the go-to guy for all your WoW hate was Ghostcrawler. It's just these people with the attention span and memory of gnats that can't remember back that far.

[Deleted]

Answer this honestly...
If you were in Blizzards shoes, who would you rather please - new and casual or veteran hardcore players? Hope you know casual/hardcore ratio subscription wise...

Dont know WoD is most casual friendly expansio to date and game droped over 7 mil players.

[Reyvah]

Dont know WoD is most casual friendly expansio to date and game droped over 7 mil players.

Previous expansions I could get current 4 piece raid tier sets and epics for either points from running heroic dungeons (laughably, laughably easy content that got steamrolled especially after the first raid tier released) or LFR. My characters at the end of Cataclysm and Mists were significantly better geared than my current Draenor characters.

Current LFR gear is just bad, and to break into decent ilvl you need to either raid normal/heroic, get lucky with mythic dungeons, or very slowly accumulate loot through boxes. So I don't buy that Draenor is this sudden deviation to "casual-land".

I also don't buy that the average/majority player is dying for a challenge. This past Mythic week had a ton of people pass on anyone below 715ilvl, legendary ring required, etc. In a group specifically dedicated to low ilvl players (ilvl700, when 660 is recommended lol) we had two tanks, one dps, and one healer rage quit before we got our 4 done. All due to standing in mechanics that are easily telegraphed and should have been avoided.

From my experience, people are chasing rewards regardless of how fun or how challenging the content is. I swear people would do 200 pet battles in a row for a gear upgrade even if they hated every second of it.

[imzhell]

I agree with the threads objective

[SodiumChloride]

honestly ... yes .... by all means do that if it means we get 10 more dungeons per expansion ...

To be frank, I have no idea why Blizzard is so opposed to it.

They insist that raid bosses and trash have unique models. Raid dungeons have unique art ...

If they recycle "common" assets, they wouldn't have to force people into raids.

[Dezminion]

They did not do the whole MC in one week ppl

"Molten Core was nearly cut from World of Warcraft. To ensure it would be in the game at release, developers finished working on the dungeon in a single week. Jeff Kaplan did all of the spawning and creature placement, while Scott Mercer designed all of the boss fights, Bob Fitch worked up loot for the dungeon, and Pat Nagle created the Hydraxis quest line. Alex Afrasiabi was responsible for the attunement quest which would be patched in later."

Source: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Molten_Core#Trivia

[Reyvah]

To be frank, I have no idea why Blizzard is so opposed to it.

They insist that raid bosses and trash have unique models. Raid dungeons have unique art ...

If they recycle "common" assets, they wouldn't have to force people into raids.

Part of this may be the backlash from WotLK's first raid Naxxramas. Only a tiny percentage of players ever set foot in there, let alone downed KT back in 2006/2007. Yet there was a huge outcry from players about how lame recycled content was. Same with bringing back Onyxia during WotLK (again, a majority of players never experienced this content when it was challenging/current).

I think the biggest reason dungeons aren't added willy-nilly is that they are reserved as set pieces that advance the story and serve as geographical landmarks. It's not enough to build Generic_Dungeon_Corridor_078 for their standards. Adding dungeons should be done right, like the 3 Icecrown dungeons. They were tied well into the geography of the land, they served to advance story, and they shared lore with the current raid. Even if you didn't raid and kill the Lich King, you still felt a part of the storyline when that patch hit by running dungeons.

[Pieterman]

The multi-difficulty system feels watered down if you're doing entry level stuff and feels repetative if you're doing progression. Most people won't feel this way, but there's bound to be people like me that want to progress from one instance to another, not one difficulty.

The questing is like a Telltale game. Your hand is held through the story and sometimes you need to press some stuff.

Professions absolutely sucked in WoD. It was obviously flawed and they did very little to make it interesting over the course of the expansion. Legion looks very interesting so far, I guess WoD was a necessary evil here.

Ability pruning is a consequence of having an 11 year old game. You can't keep adding stuff without making it cluttered. You can't not add stuff because people want new stuff with their expansion, you can't remove stuff because people enjoy their old stuff. It's difficult to please everyone here. Personally I disagree with their approach.
A part of the problem here is that while lvling you just get abilities thrown at you very rapidly, rather than slowly adding abilities to your arsenal through class quests or class trainers.

[Sanct]

Yeah i was dumb not even thinking about those two numbers. But why bring up old times? The post itself was one month old, they've fixed this problem already.

The guy I originally replied to made the point that the number of difficulties was more of a bog on non-raiders than Mythic raiders, and it made me think of my friend. That's why I shared my story.