The real reason WoW is losing subs

[ThunderTaco]

Mythic Archimonde was so far killed by over 1600 guilds.

Mythic Gorefiend? 5000

Guilds that killed Kel'thuzad? 23. Twenty fucking three guilds cleared Naxx before BC.

But nooooo, vanilla was so eeeeasy.

You are confusing easy with accessible.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Mythic Archimonde was so far killed by over 1600 guilds.

Mythic Gorefiend? 5000

Guilds that killed Kel'thuzad? 23. Twenty fucking three guilds cleared Naxx before BC.

But nooooo, vanilla was so eeeeasy.

Sorry to hurt your Nostalgic ego, but "twenty fucking three guilds cleared Naxx before BC" had a VERY logical reason in the form of TIME restraints. So, it wasn't mechanical difficulty that stopped people.

Raids today are more accessible, but they're FAR more mechanically complex and challenging even to the very best players. FACT.

http://kotaku.com/guild-overcomes-wo...aft-1718370489

When the world of Azeroth was brand new, and the overall pace of leveling was significantly slower than the norm today, such that the primary occupation for a majority of players was simply striving to reach max level. And even for the most cutting-edge players, many of whom were familiar with the leveling experience from the beta, it took two months from release for the first group to defeat Lucifron, the first boss in Molten Core.

Therefore, applying the tried and true principles of Internet forum logic, Lucifron was clearly more challenging than Garrosh—or any boss in the past 5 years for that matter. OK, maybe not. The delay was due not to the bosses’ difficulty, but rather the fact that it took even the most dedicated groups with extensive raiding experience from past MMOs that long to assemble a sufficiently large group of level-60 players who had obtained the appropriate dungeon and endgame quest gear. In many ways, that was the most challenging aspect of classic WoW raiding: the logistics of assembling and maintaining a sufficient roster with sufficient gear.

Over the year and a half to follow, Blackwing Lair, Temple of Ahn’Qiraj, and the original version of Naxxramas were introduced, providing an increasing level of challenge for groups that had already completed Molten Core. These raid zones all were tuned around both a full 40-player group and the expectation that players possessed a significant amount of raid gear, which meant that by definition fewer and fewer people were able to participate in each successive tier of content. New players joining the game during the summer of 2006, at the height of Naxxramas progression, had virtually no hope of ever seeing Kel’Thuzad. At best, they might level quickly and get enough dungeon gear to join a guild that was still doing Molten Core.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/139...back-4-28-2014

I'll take actual mechanical difficulty and complexity over logistics and time restraints when it comes to challenge, thank you very much.

[MrLachyG]

come on please
LFR was always faceroll

I can't speak for DS LFR because I didn't do it, but the MoP LFRs were definitely more difficult than WoD ones

[MasterHamster]

Mythic Archimonde was so far killed by over 1600 guilds.

Mythic Gorefiend? 5000

Guilds that killed Kel'thuzad? 23. Twenty fucking three guilds cleared Naxx before BC.

But nooooo, vanilla was so eeeeasy.

You seem unable to distinguish difficulty by actual fight execution and logistics.

[Deleted]

Problem for me is that the game went from and MMO, where u had to talk to people make friends. Do stuff together talking to each other to current Mop/WoD gameplay.
Where a MMO is a singleplayer game and lost all sens of community. It also lost most of the grind. Running an instances 10 times to get your bis was never a nuisance. it was a grind, yeah u could say it prolonged the game. But u had goals.
Even "todays" Mythic Raiding is dogshit imo. Back in the days, the raids where hard from start, it was no sugercoating for bad players. u had to learn how to play the game.

This is why i dont like the game anymore, and it doesent look like Legion is gonna change that. Legion looks like WoD 2.0 for me. Too much singleplayer content, not enough reputation grinds or any hard grind at all, just log on do your thing log of, no need to interact with people. Hell u dont even need a guild to get gear, 5 friends is enough to compare your gear to a hardcore raider.

[Spray]

Mythic Archimonde was so far killed by over 1600 guilds.

Mythic Gorefiend? 5000

Guilds that killed Kel'thuzad? 23. Twenty fucking three guilds cleared Naxx before BC.

But nooooo, vanilla was so eeeeasy.

You know how much time does it take me from dinging a new 100 to being ready for Mythic raiding in terms of ilvl? Two days tops.

You know how much time did it take from dinging a new 60 (after a month) to being ready to raid T3 instantly while skipping all prev--- awhahaha, can't even complete that sentence, it sounds so utterly bonkers. Man, if you skipped the progression race in Vanilla/BC for even a month, you were basically fucked.

Which means that the only people capable of raiding Naxx were the people raiding all the previous tiers in Vanilla. The pool of those players could only shrink in time, because some of them would be stuck on previous content - no one ever caught up. If Naxx would last for another year, then yeah - there would be much more people with such an achievement, because they would push T2 at some point and make it further. It had nothing to do with the actual difficulty, but accessibility and, as said above, fight execution (raid compositions, lack of diversity) and logistics (farming mats for hours).

[Darktbs]

Mythic Archimonde was so far killed by over 1600 guilds.

Mythic Gorefiend? 5000

Guilds that killed Kel'thuzad? 23. Twenty fucking three guilds cleared Naxx before BC.

But nooooo, vanilla was so eeeeasy.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Kel'Thuzad_%28original%29

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=91331/arc...ilities:mode=m

Kel'thuzad have 5 spells...Mythic Archimonde have 18.

What i see from Vanilla it was a pain to get to the boss itself.40 people,resist gear and more.

From what i see now you need to know HOW TO PLAY.Several mechanics in one boss,not just.

Hit....hit...hit...spell...

hit

[Gimlix]

It is rewards though. There was content to do in WOD, but why leave your garrison to do it when your garrison missions gave you mythic gear?

There was no content to do outside raiding, This is a very aware problem.

- - - Updated - - -

I can't speak for DS LFR because I didn't do it, but the MoP LFRs were definitely more difficult than WoD ones

Cata LFR the bosses didnt even had any tacts, it was just, nuke the boss down as big target dummy.

[Amerissis]

You can get mythic gear through the garrison missions once you killed enough bosses in that raid

Ah, right. So the idea of 'you don't even have to leave your garisson to get mythic gear' is bullshit. I thought as much, thanks.

[Televators]

WoW loses (and often regains) more subs in a quarter than most games have players, all time. It's an old game and most of the losses are likely attributed more to attention span attrition than anything else. Tons of players that leave WoW do so only temporarily. The game is more interesting than ever for both casual and hardcore players. There's more content than ever. The game plays very similarly to how it did 10 years ago. There's no incredibly huge changes. It's still WoW.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Problem for me is that the game went from and MMO, where u had to talk to people make friends. Do stuff together talking to each other to current Mop/WoD gameplay.
Where a MMO is a singleplayer game and lost all sens of community. It also lost most of the grind. Running an instances 10 times to get your bis was never a nuisance. it was a grind, yeah u could say it prolonged the game. But u had goals.
Even "todays" Mythic Raiding is dogshit imo. Back in the days, the raids where hard from start, it was no sugercoating for bad players. u had to learn how to play the game.

This is why i dont like the game anymore, and it doesent look like Legion is gonna change that. Legion looks like WoD 2.0 for me. Too much singleplayer content, not enough reputation grinds or any hard grind at all, just log on do your thing log of, no need to interact with people. Hell u dont even need a guild to get gear, 5 friends is enough to compare your gear to a hardcore raider.

"The raids were hard from the start"...LOL! The raids were never hard back then, people were new and logistics were a nightmare.
Mythic raiding has been sublime with the BEST players proclaiming HFC Mythic to be the hardest raid to date...

Of course, one has to seek out challenge and not just talk about it in order to know these things...

[schwank05]

Make all character boosts free, and unlimited. Make it so a new player only has to level the last 5-10 levels that are new to the most current expansion. Then I think It would keep a new player engaged, I know I started playing 1 month after launch and didn't have a max level character until BC. Why, simple because I couldn't stick with only one character and the level grind was god awful back then. If I started now it would be just plain dumb, to have to totally level 100+ levels if I want another or new class. This is I think one of the major issues.

[Spray]

Cata LFR the bosses didnt even had any tacts, it was just, nuke the boss down as big target dummy.

I stopped playing mid-Firelands and got back after DS was released including Raid Finder mode.

My jaw basically dropped upon seeing how fucking laughable Raid Finder was back then (well, excluding Spine which was pretty hilarious).

[Deleted]

It's not because the game has gotten old.

It is becuse its geting old, back 30 Years ago Star Wars was the coolest thing, but it shrank to almost nothing a long time before Timothy Zahn books kickstarted the Star Wars renaissance.

The only difference is that WoW is more resilience and dies slower then Star Wars and hence it take longer time for the WoW renaissance to kick in.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I stopped playing mid-Firelands and got back after DS was released including Raid Finder mode.

My jaw basically dropped upon seeing how fucking laughable Raid Finder was back then (well, excluding Spine which was pretty hilarious).

Same.

And then MoP came around, with ToT LFR in particular. I loved the Durumu fight so much on Normal, that I'd regularly go into LFR with alts JUST for that fight. :P

Hopefully, for the sake of LFR players, Legion will go back to that and not keep up the WOD LFR system.

[Rafoel]

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Kel'Thuzad_%28original%29

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=91331/arc...ilities:mode=m

Kel'thuzad have 5 spells...Mythic Archimonde have 18.

What i see from Vanilla it was a pain to get to the boss itself.40 people,resist gear and more.

From what i see now you need to know HOW TO PLAY.Several mechanics in one boss,not just.

Hit....hit...hit...spell...

hit

Mythic Archimonde is not difficult at all. He is difficult to kill during the first month of patch, when you have too little gear to match dps-checks and heal-checks.

When players are full geared... piece of cake.

Meanwhile, during first month of patch, you couldn't even hope to SEE last boss in vanilla and tbc. When being full geared... THEN you could start trying to take the boss down.

[Darktbs]

It is becuse its geting old, back 30 Years ago Star Wars was the coolest thing, but it shrank to almost nothing a long time before Timothy Zahn books kickstarted the Star Wars renaissance.

The only difference is that WoW is more resilience and dies slower then Star Wars and hence it take longer time for the WoW renaissance to kick in.

Im here because of this arguments but it is annoying and repetitive.Its not its age,its how is was managed in time,once a upon a time people stayed hours in a game,now players don't spent that much time so they change it.Some of the changes were bad,some were good.But the game lives on.Many games and franchises are still up,to not quote Pokémon again,say Elder Scrolls.Its a old franchise yet its last game Skyrim its still played and modded.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Mythic Archimonde is not difficult at all. He is difficult to kill during the first month of patch, when you have too little gear to match dps-checks and heal-checks.

When players are full geared... piece of cake.

Meanwhile, during first month of patch, you couldn't even hope to SEE last boss in vanilla and tbc. When being full geared... THEN you could start trying to take the boss down.

You're just plain wrong. If Mythic Archimonde isn't difficult at all, classic bosses sure as fuck aren't.
Since mythic bosses are so easy to you, you must have a pretty high rank at world progress. Would love to see your armory!

Quote from Spray:

Which means that the only people capable of raiding Naxx were the people raiding all the previous tiers in Vanilla. The pool of those players could only shrink in time, because some of them would be stuck on previous content - no one ever caught up. If Naxx would last for another year, then yeah - there would be much more people with such an achievement, because they would push T2 at some point and make it further. It had nothing to do with the actual difficulty, but accessibility and, as said above, fight execution (raid compositions, lack of diversity) and logistics (farming mats for hours).

The players tackling Mythic Archimonde for the Progression race, were decked out in the best possible gear from the previous tier, yet had over 400 wipes on Mythic Archimonde alone. That's AFTER spending who knows how many hours preparing, learning the fight, making sure they meet gear requirements and so on.

Raiding has become more accessible, that's it. It hasn't become easier to down bosses.

[Alydael]

Ah, right. So the idea of 'you don't even have to leave your garisson to get mythic gear' is bullshit. I thought as much, thanks.

The thing is, you don't have to kill a single mythic boss to get that gear- only heroics. You might want to read up on the game systems before you call bs.

[Deleted]

The real reason WoW is losing subs is simple.

It's not because the game has gotten old.

It's not?



This is business 101. WoW is no exception. This graph also perfectly explains the shift towards store items, it's to get a new source of income.