Page 8 of 15 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    It's not?



    This is business 101. WoW is no exception. This graph also perfectly explains the shift towards store items, it's to get a new source of income.
    People are too hung up on listing their pet peeves as the reason for the decline. Bringing in logic and facts, won't change their minds.
    Just look at how obsessed people are with clinging to the idea that Classic was the pinnacle of skill requirements.

  2. #142
    Casualization mentioned several times... i like this word. Sums it up perfectly.

  3. #143
    Yup, the content patches lack longevity and given how far apart they are the odds of someone quitting is quite high, and sooner or later they simply forget to come back due to some other game keeping them occupied.

    The worst thing that can happen in these types of games are content droughts. Reasons for these can be many, fast consumed content or too far between patches for example. We need to have meaningful content keeping us occupied for a majority of the time.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    Yup, the content patches lack longevity and given how far apart they are the odds of someone quitting is quite high, and sooner or later they simply forget to come back due to some other game keeping them occupied.

    The worst thing that can happen in these types of games are content droughts. Reasons for these can be many, fast consumed content or too far between patches for example. We need to have meaningful content keeping us occupied for a majority of the time.
    And the even WORSE thing is for content droughts to happen when there hasn't been proper content added throughout the expansion...WoD = prime example of dropping the ball hard.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by King of Gaming View Post
    The real reason WoW is losing subs is simple.

    It's not because the game has gotten old.
    It's not because the game has gotten worse.
    It's not because the game has gotten easy.

    You can have an opinion on all these things. You can think the game is easier now, you can thnk the game was better in Vanilla. That's all a matter of perspective. But these are not the reasons why the game has lost so many subs.

    The reason why the game has lost so many subs is because the game has become less demanding. The game has moved away from trying to pin down players and keep them busy for months. The game has moved away from trying to force players into some kind of commitment, like into a guild, where they have to attend raids every week in order to even have a chance at seeing all the content.

    Casual playing and accessability are the key words here. Now this might not be news to anyone. But I think it's so obvious that these are the main factors why the game is losing subs. People can now play the game like a singleplayer game. You can start it up, play for a few hours, and if you do that every day, you're gonna have played through the game pretty much after a couple of days. There isn't really much more content in this game for more than a couple of hours anyway.

    And it wasn't any different in Vanilla. There was maybe a little bit more content than today, especially if you compare the content we get in patches, but it wasn't that much more to make a huge difference. A little bit more would've kept us busy a little bit longer in recent expansions.

    What really made so many more people subscribe for such a longer time in Vanilla compared to today is that the game was designed to be difficult to play while still maintaining a healthy real life outside of the game. It's no secret. Back in the day, tons of people were addicted to WoW, to the point where they needed to go into "rehab". People neglected their real life, their friends, their family. Even their kids. We've all heard of it.

    The game demanded you to structure your real life around the game, if you wanted to actually get somewhere in the game. And for many people, that might be what made the game great. People invested time, because they had to. People committed to guilds, because they had to. Not necessarily because they really wanted to.

    And the reason less people invest that amount of time and commitment is because the game doesn't demand it of them anymore. If you want to see the content, you can do LFR and LFG. If you are busy with stuff in real life, you can catch up, with things like catch-up raid gear and even level boosts. You don't depend on the community and your guild anymore and you can schedule the game around your real life, instead of the other way around.

    Some people might now be thinking that I'm trying to criticize the game for it's casualness and accessability. That I'm trying to say that this is why "the game is dying". But that's actually not what I'm trying to say. I'm actually wondering now if it isn't better this way.

    The game never had a justification for us to play it as much as so many of us did back in the day. There weren't that many quests in the zones in Vanilla. Leveling took so long because you had to run and fly back and forth so much. It took so long because the experience gain was tuned in such a way where you had to do all the quests available to you in every zone, plus dungeons and probably plus a little bit of extra grinding. Dungeons could be cleared once rather quickly, but the reason you spent so much time in there was because they gave you reasons to grind them over and over again. You needed to in order to advance to the next kind of content.

    Is that really fun? If you think about it, would you like to do that in a singleplayer game? If they told you to play through level 1 ten times before advancing to level 2, would that be fun to you? Or would you think it was a blatantly obvious attempt to stretch game time? They didn't make more content, they just forced you to repeat the same content again. And there are still instances of that in today's WoW, but Vanilla WoW was so much worse when it came to grinding. Because in today's WoW, at least you can see all the content without grinding anything. And I'm starting to think it's better that way. MMOs always relied on pointless grinding way too much anyway.

    How does everyone of these crackpot theories blame lfr,easy or casuals for wow's decline? How does everyone of them miss the most obvious reason lack of content? How is this repeatedly missed?
    Last expansion we had 5 open world places to do things in add AFTER launch: Thunder island, Dino island, landing zone Karasang wilds,battle field barrens , and timeless island. This expansion we got 1 fucking 1 tanaan jungle and even that was suppose to be on launch. Then add in scenarios, repeatable rares to kill instead of one and done or once a day , brawlers guild( it only changed the fights around this expansion instead of making it from scratch and took out arguably the hardest one), and world bosses worth doing who dropped tier gear.
    That is what happens here in wod content was cut dramatically. This was a raid or die expansion and oh ya it has one less raid tier too. Then add in we paid MORE for this expansion too. What hurt wow and wod specifically was lack of content plain and simple. Why this fact is overlooked is ashtonishing.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    It's not?



    This is business 101. WoW is no exception. This graph also perfectly explains the shift towards store items, it's to get a new source of income.
    Coca Cola and Corvettes should be long gone by now

  7. #147
    Herald of the Titans Baine's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Thunder Bluff, Québec
    Posts
    2,816
    Quote Originally Posted by King of Gaming View Post
    The real reason WoW is losing subs is simple.

    The reason why the game has lost so many subs is because the game has become less demanding. The game has moved away from trying to pin down players and keep them busy for months. The game has moved away from trying to force players into some kind of commitment, like into a guild, where they have to attend raids every week in order to even have a chance at seeing all the content.
    Reality rarely can be explained with one reason. Same for WoW decline. There are external and internal reeasons. I recommend you try to expand your thought even if what you says seems valid.
    Last edited by Baine; 2016-05-23 at 04:09 PM.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Jewsco View Post
    How does everyone of these crackpot theories blame lfr,easy or casuals for wow's decline? How does everyone of them miss the most obvious reason lack of content? How is this repeatedly missed?
    Last expansion we had 5 open world places to do things in add AFTER launch: Thunder island, Dino island, landing zone Karasang wilds,battle field barrens , and timeless island. This expansion we got 1 fucking 1 tanaan jungle and even that was suppose to be on launch. Then add in scenarios, repeatable rares to kill instead of one and done or once a day , brawlers guild( it only changed the fights around this expansion instead of making it from scratch and took out arguably the hardest one), and world bosses worth doing who dropped tier gear.
    That is what happens here in wod content was cut dramatically. This was a raid or die expansion and oh ya it has one less raid tier too. Then add in we paid MORE for this expansion too. What hurt wow and wod specifically was lack of content plain and simple. Why this fact is overlooked is ashtonishing.
    People being stupid and blind to facts in their haze of nostalgia or cirklejerk, usually spurred by some has-been Streamer.
    MoP showed how the game functions when it's done perfectly. 14 months of SoO held players like a charm, and it had LFR, casual-friendly content alongside the content for those seeking challenge and to test their mettle.

    You're absolutely right, but sadly the dumb posts where people list their ill informed opinions based in their pet peeves or what others told them as the downfall of WoW will continue.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Spray View Post
    How is it old exactly? Because I don't see much difference in terms of mechanics and gameplay between WoW and any other current MMO out there.

    WoW from 2004 would be old in 2016, definitely. But we're not playing 2004 WoW, but 2016 WoW - lots of improvements, both in gameplay and in visuals.
    And maybe that's why most of them don't pull the numbers. And wow is basically the same as it's ever been. Not sure what game you are playing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    Why people keep playing CS then?
    I go back and play UO sometimes. I like to play Tecmo Bowl sometimes. It's not where we are anymore, but going back is always available to use.

    How many new people are catching on to UO, WoW, or Tecmo Bowl? That's where the problem sits, you'll always get some returners with every expansion and always get fading vets. That legit newbie though... nah, not really.
    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Meant Wetback. That's what the guy from Home Depot called it anyway.
    ==================================
    If you say pls because it is shorter than please,
    I'll say no because it is shorter than yes.
    ==================================

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    The thing is, you don't have to kill a single mythic boss to get that gear- only heroics. You might want to read up on the game systems before you call bs.
    That's exactly what I said! That you have to kill heroic bosses to get mythic gear. What are you on? I want some!

  11. #151
    I can only speak for myself in the matter. I left because there was no long term reason to stay invested. Most of the what the game offers from a PvE perspective is a hand holding, zero risk / setback endeavor, to the point that it's very easy to understand why many players consider it tedious. What's left tends to be rather compartmentalized events (instanced pvp / pve) of varying difficulties, with fairly singular paths for character advancement

    Add to that how little your own persona as a player actually 'matters' in-game, and you wind up with an MMO that is easy to just walk away from. To be fair, most modern MMO's don't fare any better for me.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    That's exactly what I said! That you have to kill heroic bosses to get mythic gear. What are you on? I want some!
    Oh my bad, it looked as if you were calling what I said bs. My bad, must have misread it. If you happen to find what I am on, bottle it and send some my way. I have been looking for it for awhile now. Also, I claim branding rights.
    Last edited by Alydael; 2016-05-23 at 04:30 PM.

  13. #153
    Stood in the Fire Phantombeard's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Under Sargeras's left ear.
    Posts
    380
    Its a double edged sword. I'm not the best raider by Faarrrrrr........ but I appreciate the option to see all the content at launch. On the other hand, things could be like they were and I could just wait until I outgear the content to see it. There's something to LFR though, it helps keep everyone up on "Story" content. The story is a big pull to this game. Its huge. I think we can all agree that if WOD did get something right it was the way the story was presented (not progressed,big diff cause I feel like we missed a story of raid content). I will agree with the OP to a point though. The game does feel way less demanding. Back in the day when I got a good upgrade for my character I was hyped. Now its a different feeling I can't explain it but it just doesn't feel as epic.

    I do think blizz can get their subs back maybe not to 12mil but maybe to 8-10mil and that is still close to 150mil dollors a month rolling in. That is pleanty enough to keep funding more and more exp. As long as I have the option to start playing wow again after taking a year off and seeing new content. I'm a happy little camper. The problem and anxiety comes into play when I hear there is NO more exp planned and the game is seeing its end. Wonder how that will impact everyone. When it really is over and the fact that you killed it because you was mad over something really silly like LFR or garrisons or no flying. So in the end I guess Narcissism and nit picking killed WOW..huh..imagine that?

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantombeard View Post
    Its a double edged sword. I'm not the best raider by Faarrrrrr........ but I appreciate the option to see all the content at launch. On the other hand, things could be like they were and I could just wait until I outgear the content to see it. There's something to LFR though, it helps keep everyone up on "Story" content. The story is a big pull to this game. Its huge. I think we can all agree that if WOD did get something right it was the way the story was presented (not progressed,big diff cause I feel like we missed a story of raid content). I will agree with the OP to a point though. The game does feel way less demanding. Back in the day when I got a good upgrade for my character I was hyped. Now its a different feeling I can't explain it but it just doesn't feel as epic.

    I do think blizz can get their subs back maybe not to 12mil but maybe to 8-10mil and that is still close to 150mil dollors a month rolling in. That is pleanty enough to keep funding more and more exp. As long as I have the option to start playing wow again after taking a year off and seeing new content. I'm a happy little camper. The problem and anxiety comes into play when I hear there is NO more exp planned and the game is seeing its end. Wonder how that will impact everyone. When it really is over and the fact that you killed it because you was made over something really silly like LFR or garrisons or no flying. So in the end I guess Narcissism and nit picking killed WOW..huh..imagine that?
    WoD's raiding system wasn't flawed in that it didn't give enough people options to do things. It was flawed in that the only option was raiding which didn't tickle everybody's fancy. Now, there were some alternatives: Proving Grounds, CModes and to a lesser extent Mythic dungeons (which imo came too late into WoD's life cycle) and even Garrisons/Shipyards; but all of these failed to provide players meaningful ways to increase their character's power the same way as gear from raiding accomplished.

    Legion looks to correct that issue by offering alternatives to raiding that aren't intrinsic to the raiding hierarchy established by WoD (even though they're not changing the system just yet). Time will tell how this pans out but I have to give credit where credit is due: They identified a clear issue with WoD and are making sure to provide alternative content for players who may have previously felt there wasn't any. I think the net result will be that more players stick around after the initial burst of players at the beginning of the expansion... which in the long run will be a huge benefit for the game as a whole.

  15. #155
    Brewmaster Spray's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    /over/here.php
    Posts
    1,319
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    Mythic Archimonde is not difficult at all. He is difficult to kill during the first month of patch, when you have too little gear to match dps-checks and heal-checks.

    When players are full geared... piece of cake.

    Meanwhile, during first month of patch, you couldn't even hope to SEE last boss in vanilla and tbc. When being full geared... THEN you could start trying to take the boss down.
    Yeah, but it wasn't because the boss was exceptionally difficult, but because you weren't geared enough. The problem is, you couldn't have gear if you haven't raided in the previous tiers, there were no catchups, no other means of getting gear except raiding. Now if I want to do Mythic Archimonde on another character, I just ding 100, do Tanaan for a few hours, get in Ashran, farm it for one, top two days, get 700 PvP gear and hop right in. Do you see the difference?

    Difficulty doesn't mean gear-check, Naxx was basically a gear-check because in order to qualify you HAD to be decked in full T2 - this is not difficulty, that's gating on a massive scale. Once you got that gear, you would find the fight much easier than Mythic is right now.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Saucerian View Post
    Exactly. You are arguing against yourself. We all have a decade of hindsight in the genre now, and are discussing gamers who are introverted to begin with. Players can choose to interact, but given the choice, they don't.

    A genre that's supposed to thrive on player interaction needs to force it, somehow, with tools and incentives for cooperative play. I admit my own cognitive dissonance on this. I don't always care for such design myself. I think I would actually like WoW more as a single player (or optional cooperative) RPG.

    But right now it's neither a good single player or MMO game. It needs to pick a direction.
    It has been proven by player behaviour.
    Look at how the talking we used to do pre-item level demands resulted in better groups.
    Are those inflated requirements achieving anything ?
    No, just more barriers all the time.

    Social interaction is not forced, fact.
    Look at the Dalaran daily heroic which resulted in barely one word uttered during the dungeon.
    Other players were simply a means to an end.
    Forced interaction is never social.
    Social is positive interaction without expectation or incentive, it is because you can, because you want to.
    Not because you need to.

    Just how many people outside of a guild would you choose to interact with were it not for random groups.
    That is what those tools offer, player experiences beyond a closed circle people build a wall around willingly.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2016-05-23 at 04:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  17. #157
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Switzerland, Geneva
    Posts
    6,999
    Wildstar is the absolute proof that a demanding MMO is not what people want, period.

    Stupids forum dwellers keep bashing about how wow need to be more hardcore, thinking they know better than Blizzard. Because clearly, Blizzard is not a quoted company, do not care about shareholders and is 100% focused on killing its own game.

    Because clearly, forum experts know better than multibillion company. Obviously.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  18. #158
    I'm a 13/13 Mythic raider and love the top end content, but acknowledge that i'm a minority.

    While I vehemently loathe the idea of top end mythic content becoming available to anyone through casualization, I also don't care that LFR exists. I didn't like Blizzards little Valor trick to make high end raiders go carry LFR for valor but that's a different thing.

    I like that leveling is easy now. I don't want leveling from 1-100 to take days, because after playing for so long I like the idea of just getting to 100 and playing the game in both PvE and PvP. Addressing your questing comments - that's a mixed bag. I did like the idea of running to dungeons after finding groups. That quests for dungeons themselves were scattered through the world was also fine. I didn't, however, enjoy running from zone to zone when it could take 4 hours per level. It was tedious after one character and if you could get boosted or skip it, people did for good reason.

    Your other point. "The game demanded you to structure your real life around the game, if you wanted to actually get somewhere in the game." - I've been raiding top end content since TBC and I disagree. An hour here, an hour there. Two or three hours on a Saturday and Sunday. Despite being in highschool, I managed to get my work done, homework done, study, socialise and play the game. I did this because the game wasn't particularly demanding once you hit maximum level.

    A final comment on your evaluation of content and LFR/LFG meaning people don't play less - yes, that do play less. But a lot of LFR level players aren't good enough for normal or heroic because they just aren't great at the game. Because of this, they usually get kicked from normal/heroic runs. If LFR wasn't there, subs would drop further and more investment would be taken away from WoW and used to develop other content thus resulting in WoW 'dying'. This would then spiral to more sub loss due to even less appealing content. Remove LFR because you think normal-mythic is all there should be? Congratulations, you just fucked over your own content development next expansion.

  19. #159
    Pretty much, yeah.

    You have so many people crying about "no content" because Blizzard made the content so braindead-easy that you can blow through it all in no time, leaving you with nothing to do afterward.

    In just 1 week after hitting level 100, I had already gotten to 685 iLvl and cleared normal HFC. That's atrociously fast. No wonder people are complaining about "no content" when they can clear the current content extremely quickly.

  20. #160
    The real reason WoW is losing subs is simple.

    Because the game has gotten old(its like 10% of the reason why)
    Because the game has gotten worse(45%)
    Because the game has gotten easy(45%, but you can merge it with worse cause its basically the same thing)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •