So basically the MMO genre is dead, or?

[kenn9530]

They make about 150 million USD per year on coins for their micro transaction shop alone, last I heard. The thing is run by EA, they wouldn't be putting content out as regularly as they do if it weren't making them a profit. They've long since passed the point of regaining spent money.

That said, I can definitely understand frustration with it, as Bioware seems intent on turning swtor into a single player rpg even more. There haven't been a new raid in that game in over a year, and they've gone on record saying there'll be none in kotfe.

The thing is the character driven stuff is what they did best with the game, the operations were nice and all but its more of the same old and operations only cater to a smaller percentage of the playerbase, its the casual playerbase you need to keep happy as thats where most of the money comes from, and in swtor the RPG content is what most players want.

[Lotus Victoria]

MMO's are stale nowadays, and even games like Tree of Savior, who showed a lot of potential (at least for me, anyway) are nothing more than a grindfest without big innovations.

Oh boy, I miss the old days.

[Edge-]

Oh boy, I miss the old days.

You mean back when MMO's were actually grindfests because of technical limitations and the lack of experience designing persistent online worlds? : P

[Lotus Victoria]

You mean back when MMO's were actually grindfests because of technical limitations and the lack of experience designing persistent online worlds? : P

Yet they had a magical feeling behind them. Maybe it was because it was new, I dunno. Ragnarök Online is my favourite MMO of all time, and I still think that it is more playable than it's successor, Tree of Savior. More charisma, more depth, and well, overall, more fun, at least for me.

Technical limitations were a bitch back in the 00's, but they worked around that, at least the best MMO's. Nowadays, having grind as an excuse is just a lazy way to make the game longer, and that does not apply just to MMO's.

But again, nostalgia is something, and maybe I'm just being nonsensical.

[Edge-]

Yet they had a magical feeling behind them.

Because they were a totally new concept for a lot of folks. Having an entire persistent world inhabited by hundreds/thousands of players? I still remember hearing about UO when I was younger and the concept blew my god damned mind. Just the notion that you could interact with that many other people at once, that you could log out of the world and re-enter it with new NPC's around or different players etc.

Nowadays? That's par for the course, it's "dull" compared to what it was. Same for any new technology, it blows everyone's minds until it becomes standard. MMO's are standard now.

Maybe it was because it was new, I dunno. Ragnarök Online is my favourite MMO of all time, and I still think that it is more playable than it's successor, Tree of Savior. More charisma, more depth, and well, overall, more fun, at least for me.

Quite possibly, I never spent much time in RO so I can't compare. Out of curiosity, have you returned to RO recently?

Technical limitations were a bitch back in the 00's, but they worked around that, at least the best MMO's. Nowadays, having grind as an excuse is just a lazy way to make the game longer, and that does not apply just to MMO's.

90's too. I mean the notion that one might need dedicated video RAM? That was bonkers for a game. They didn't really "work around it", they were very much limited in what they could design in the game based squarely on that, look at EQ1 for example. The overwhelming majority of leveling? Grinding mobs, slowly traveling from one zone to the next (each of which was instanced), literal dungeon crawls through massive, sprawling dungeons, long period of camping for named mobs, experience and gear loss on death, etc.

We look back fondly at that because it was new and awesome, and it was done pretty damn well. But if a game launches with those type of elements now? It's burnt at the stake.

But again, nostalgia is something, and maybe I'm just being nonsensical.

I'd venture a guess at nostalgia. It's fine to love those older MMO's, they're still pretty fantastic games. But to think they weren't largely based around heavy amounts of grinding is having the nostalgia glasses blur things up more than just a bit : P

[Lahis]

For me it's dead until someone releases one with graphics that are on par with triple A games that have been released in the last couple years, in addition to an awesome combat system, an end game with a good variety, and maybe no leveling at all. I quit following MMOs after GW2 didn't live up to the hype. Now I have a ps4 and a xb1 and I just follow console games. I haven't even played a pc game in a few years, and I probably won't until I find an MMO that's actually worth playing.

To me that sounds like you don't want to play MMOs at all.

[Lotus Victoria]

I'd venture a guess at nostalgia. It's fine to love those older MMO's, they're still pretty fantastic games. But to think they weren't largely based around heavy amounts of grinding is having the nostalgia glasses blur things up more than just a bit : P

Me too. But I still think that some aspects of old games were very unique. We will always love those old games, no matter how bad they were. It was the good times, when everything was new and we were just going on for the ride. *cries*

As for RO, I still play in TalonRO. It is pré-renewal (no 3rd classes), so for me, it's pretty good. Love me some monk combos.
renewal totally fucked ragnarok online why did gravity did that omg i want my crusader back...

[unholytestament]

To me that sounds like you don't want to play MMOs at all.

That is the impression I get from a lot of people, especially those who are waiting around for WoW to die.

There are a lot of great MMOs out there. Keep trying until you find one you like.

[nyc81991]

The meaning of MMO's has changed. WoW and other games like it are MMO-RPG's. But most games that come out today that aren't single player are MMO's to some degree.

[Veyne]

To be perfectly honest, MMO's have always been a Niche genre. They were niche before World of Warcraft, and they've been niche ever since. The MMO genre "exploded" after the unusual popularity of World of Warcraft due to developers attempting to get some of the same success that Blizzard enjoyed with World of Warcraft. It is extremely unlikely that we'll ever see another MMORPG (at least a subscription based one) that saw the same numbers that World of Warcraft did in its prime. Blizzard did a lot of things right, but they also had the right timing on their side as well. I don't like to say World of Warcraft's popularity was a fluke, because Blizzard did make a damn good game, but in terms of the MMO genre, for all intents and purposes, World of Warcraft is the exception in terms of popularity.

We aren't seeing as many MMOs coming out because developers realized that it's not as big of as market as World of Warcraft made it out to be, and so the genre has returned to its former niche. It's not dying.

[archimonde9999]

Definitely can be revived.

I think Hearthstone has cut a bit into its dominance. I think society might be erring towards faster paced, quick games rather than super long ones that require lots of concentration.

[draykorinee]

Pretty much. I don't think i'll be getting back in to Wow personally, I also don't many people who are carrying on.

[grandpab]

To me that sounds like you don't want to play MMOs at all.

These days...I really don't and it's been a while since I've even played one. I haven't played WoW in about 5-6 years, gw2 in about 3 years, and I played Wildstar for a month when that came out a couple years ago. I'm not gonna play an MMO just for the sake of playing, because I feel like I always need to have an MMO to play. I used to be like that and I'd follow every new MMO I could find, but none of them could hold me for more than a month or 2. I've given up on the mmo genre until something truly special comes out, and I don't expect anything in the next 5 years. I would love to have an MMO to play really, but none of them appeal to me anymore. It's all too much of the same.

[Deleted]

Clueless people and their weird standards, what else is new?

Newsflash: an MMO does not need millions of players to be good or "make it", wow was and is a large standout, doesn't mean there aren't a ton of MMO's with a smaller amount of people.
Some 10 years ago most MMO players played either EQ(2) or WoW as those where the only really good mmo's. Now there is a TON of good mmo's on the market.
MMO Genre dead? no, i'd say it's actually thriving more than ever if you look at how many class A MMO games you can chose from now.

[Linri]

I think MMO's are great, easily my favorite genre of game out there, and has maintained this position on my list for about 15 years now.
Some games, I have played do not hold my interest for more than a few months, let alone years.. But, it is nice to revisit games from time to time.. I think I have been treating MMO's more like a regular video game now.. Buy it, get all hyped about it, play it for a few months, pretty regularly, and stop.. Usually at around 300 hours or so.. Which is an awful lot of time for any game, except MMO's...

The one game that I truly believe has stood the test of time not really straying from it's roots for the most part is sadly RuneScape, that game fly's under the radar pretty heavily, and has a solid following of players.

Other games like FFXIV / GW2 / WoW / Eve / Black Desert / Blade and Soul / Everquest 2 are also really great games, but sometimes you get the feeling like it's a race, when for most of us out there, the "race" is actually playing the game.. We forget that getting to max level only opens up the end game content, in which we breeze through the rest of the game, as it being mediocore...when sometimes that is the coolest part of the game... sometimes...

[Orby]

not really dead, just dying... slowly... MMO's are not as popular as they were. Now its all about teams games.

[Deleted]

What?! The MMO genre has always been dead (pardon, a "niche genre" - a pretentious formula used to describe something people don't like). It is only WoW that brought it into the mainstream because WoW was (is) so good compared to the other MMOs. The other MMOs are mostly crappy Korean f2p/p2w grindfests with no end-game content, and other western f2p MMOs because they can't be p2p because they suck epic donkey balls of doom so people don't want to pay a sub to them. Korean MMOs are all f2p because that's how it is in Asian markets, so they don't come to the west with a subscription cause that's would be several levels of lame to make the western players play a sub.

But with WoW going through some...stuff right now, the MMO genre as a whole is also taking a hit. Make no mistake, WoW = mainstream MMOs, without WoW, the MMO genre will remain dead.

[Teebone]

Yes, the MMO genre is dead.

I'd say more evolving. Minmos™ (Destiny) large scale shooters (Battlefield) and other oddities (GTA:Online) are still very much alive and well.

[Eliseus]

The MMO genre is not dead. It is larger than it has ever been before. The issue is there is a plethora of MMOs people can play now, making the so ever large populations seem very small. WoD proved though you can bring people back to your game, just don't bring them back to a sucky game. People want something good and there is a way to attract an audience, keeping the audience is the problem. There also seems to be this issue where not just WoW has implemented this model that doesn't seem to keep some for a significant amount of time anymore. So people are bouncing around bunch of MMOs to try and find one to call home.

[Edge-]

What?! The MMO genre has always been dead (pardon, a "niche genre" - a pretentious formula used to describe something people don't like). It is only WoW that brought it into the mainstream because WoW was (is) so good compared to the other MMOs.

But with WoW going through some...stuff right now, the MMO genre as a whole is also taking a hit. Make no mistake, WoW = mainstream MMOs, without WoW, the MMO genre will remain dead.

Damn, I guess someone has to break the news to the dozens of MMO's that have been out and supported with content updates for upwards of almost 2 decades. They're in a dead genre, no money to be made there : /