[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Kazgrel]

Yay... maybe I finally get that darn cook to 60.

That is, if we can withstand finding more lost moogles... o.o

[Kazgrel]

Yes, because that's almost a necessity in MMOs.

When I was younger - and more naive - I would ask why MMOs didn't have zones that were built like levels in platformers or other genres, where it was hard to just get around, where stuff was hidden all over and you could find it, where you had to solve puzzles to move on to the next screen, etc.

Then I realized that all of that would be annoying as shit in MMOs where you're playing with other people. Even in GW2 where waypoints could become locked based on events it was nothing more than a goddamed frustration when you were trying to get to a group or location but you couldn't in a timely fashion.

Stuff like that is great in single-player games, but quickly becomes a nuisance when playing with others.

That's what mesmer portals are for.

[Granyala]

That is, if we can withstand finding more lost moogles... o.o

I'll just cook them.

OMNOMNOM!

[Kazgrel]

I'll just cook them.

OMNOMNOM!

I'll have a side of Kupopotoes with my Pomperoni Pizza, kupo.

[Eleccybubb]

First thing I'm gonna do when I start the Moogle dailies is slaughter each and every last one of those fuckers for Churning Mists. /evilgrin

[Faroth]

You guys keep griping about your past frustrations with the Moogles. Let that hatred linger fresh in your memory.

Don't mind me over here doing their quests and listing the Ehcatl Sealant equivalent on the market board. No, no, just ignore what I'm doing. :3

I made most of my gil from 2.0 into 3.0 off that sealant. Hoping the Moogles have something similar. hahaha

[Wrecktangle]

Fun fact: most pupils expect just that. I always have to tell them that it is unrealistic to expect to comprehend stuff that is taught over the span of YEARS at school within 4 hours with a private teacher.

Do they ever listen? Nope.

My boss puts it this way: they don't want a teacher, they want a magician.

You do make a lot of good points and have given me stuff to think about, so I thank you for your effort.
I'll try to ease up on my WoW induced paranoia a bit and see what I can put into practice the next time I try to correct another player.

Ha ain't that the truth! I know I'd kill for a magician anytime I have to pay for someone to come out and fix something, but nope I'll settle for generally ineffective contractors -_-.

Yes, because that's almost a necessity in MMOs.

When I was younger - and more naive - I would ask why MMOs didn't have zones that were built like levels in platformers or other genres, where it was hard to just get around, where stuff was hidden all over and you could find it, where you had to solve puzzles to move on to the next screen, etc.

Then I realized that all of that would be annoying as shit in MMOs where you're playing with other people. Even in GW2 where waypoints could become locked based on events it was nothing more than a goddamed frustration when you were trying to get to a group or location but you couldn't in a timely fashion.

Stuff like that is great in single-player games, but quickly becomes a nuisance when playing with others.

You know the more I read this post I'm not sure I agree. I actually got fairly excited over the prospect of entering an area of physical terrain with lagoons, hills, valleys, mountains, littered with hidden paths/items, etc. with a group of friends fighting our way through difficult, but engaging monsters.

If an MMO could EVER replicate the feeling I had when I was a kid playing super metroid/Kings Field 2 for the first time. That feeling of finding secrets in crazy places, using crazy movement techniques and risky jumps/paths to find rare loot etc. I'd be satisfied I think.

[Lathais]

If an MMO could EVER replicate the feeling I had when I was a kid playing super metroid/Kings Field 2 for the first time. That feeling of finding secrets in crazy places, using crazy movement techniques and risky jumps/paths to find rare loot etc. I'd be satisfied I think.

Rift used to kinda have this, in the form of Artifacts. They were quite often hidden in way out of the way places that you would need to use some creative jumping to find. Some of these used to be very valuable too and you could make a fortune on the AH once you knew the spawn points and farmed them. Not the case anymore sadly, but it was fun in Vanilla/Chocolate Rift and early Storm Legion.

They actually do still have some pretty neat stuff like this in Nightmare Tide. In the first zone there is this very very hidden lever that if you find teleports you up in to the sky to this puzzle maze thing that is pretty fun to try to figure out on your own. Here's a video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N52XEVx_cE

[Lathais]

It would fantastic in instanced content, perhaps. (Procedurally generated instanced platformer dungeons! Make it happen, someone.) Or side content in the fashion that GW2 does jumping puzzles, that'd be cool.

But as the primary design of the open world? I dunno, seems like you'd do it once and then it'd be a huge nuisance - or just plain skipped - every other time.

Also in SL, Rift had, in the open world, puzzles that you had to find and solve in each zone that had decent open world rewards, plus Rifts that were basically jump puzzles as part of a daily quest.

[Remilia]

Housing should have been unlimited - instanced if it needs to be.

Man, they really need to rework the whole system IMHO. It just doesn't scale. Adding more plots is just kicking the can down the road.

Supposedly what the apartments are meant for, guess we'll see. Don't know when that's getting implemented though.

[SodiumChloride]

Supposedly what the apartments are meant for, guess we'll see. Don't know when that's getting implemented though.

But why "apartments", why not a floating island (/w identical object limits)?

Resource-wise on their end is exactly the same - both are instanced.

Heck, they should just give us clones of that sky pirate's island from the void ark quest line.

[Graeham]

Here's the details for the upcoming seasonal event:

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...47d8060449e461

[Fadewind]

But why "apartments", why not a floating island (/w identical object limits)?

Resource-wise on their end is exactly the same - both are instanced.

Heck, they should just give us clones of that sky pirate's island from the void ark quest line.

Because something like that needs to be added in during an expansion, not a major patch. (Unless it's like a x.1, or x.2 patch where they couldn't get it out in time for release)

It's like saying making a raid and making a dungeon are the same thing as they are both instances. Apartments are going to be extremely uniform with no "yard" space to do outdoor furnishings. And if they're similar to FC rooms, then the code is mostly implemented for how things function, it's just changing the location and look. (Which is a lot of work, but not as much as rebuilding the entire system)

An island system like Wildstar's would take up a larger chunk of development time and resources. On top of each island being a mini-server. The issue would be data and how long to keep each island running. If no one uses it for months...years...how long is enough before that space needs to be given to new players? Creating an instance isn't cheap.

Honestly, SE's approach is good development practices. If apartments turn out to be more successful than housing, then it shows players want more of a personal space focused more around them than having a place to show things off in a community. While I doubt that they'd ever abandon the current housing system completely, it's smarter to figure out what players ACTUALLY want. (Since forums and other things represent a minority of the playerbase.) If the current housing system is more desired, then they can focus on allocating resources to expanding it or building similar systems.

[Cthulhu 2020]

They want to keep the housing "limited" so it still feels special, rather than just giving everyone one. On huge servers it's probably pretty darn special. On smaller servers it seems to be most people who want one can get one within a couple of weeks just by shopping.

[SodiumChloride]

Because something like that needs to be added in during an expansion, not a major patch. (Unless it's like a x.1, or x.2 patch where they couldn't get it out in time for release)

It's like saying making a raid and making a dungeon are the same thing as they are both instances. Apartments are going to be extremely uniform with no "yard" space to do outdoor furnishings. And if they're similar to FC rooms, then the code is mostly implemented for how things function, it's just changing the location and look. (Which is a lot of work, but not as much as rebuilding the entire system)

An island system like Wildstar's would take up a larger chunk of development time and resources. On top of each island being a mini-server. The issue would be data and how long to keep each island running. If no one uses it for months...years...how long is enough before that space needs to be given to new players? Creating an instance isn't cheap.

Honestly, SE's approach is good development practices. If apartments turn out to be more successful than housing, then it shows players want more of a personal space focused more around them than having a place to show things off in a community. While I doubt that they'd ever abandon the current housing system completely, it's smarter to figure out what players ACTUALLY want. (Since forums and other things represent a minority of the playerbase.) If the current housing system is more desired, then they can focus on allocating resources to expanding it or building similar systems.

My view is, if you are going to give players an instance of their own for housing ... might as well go wild and give them an island.

FC rooms are disappointing because you can't have a garden, a lot of the outdoor seasonal furnishing can't be used ...

Frankly, from the computer's point of view, there is no difference between a room and an island. An island is just a room with a skybox texture if you think about it.

As for what is consider outdoor furnishings, that's probably just a flag in the object's meta data.

Imagine this, your own island, you can choose a pre-fab house and where to put it (the house itself would just be an item). No zoning to enter and leave the house. You can actually look out the window. Walls, partitions and other furnishings would work as usual - there is already code to handle placing items on top of each other.

- - - Updated - - -

They want to keep the housing "limited" so it still feels special, rather than just giving everyone one. On huge servers it's probably pretty darn special. On smaller servers it seems to be most people who want one can get one within a couple of weeks just by shopping.

So 99% of the player base can never own one ...

Fun for a few at the expense of the majority is not sustainable IMHO.

Regardless what SE wants if many players tell them they aren't happy, change it they must if they wish to keep their patronage.

[Granyala]

They want to keep the housing "limited" so it still feels special, rather than just giving everyone one. On huge servers it's probably pretty darn special. On smaller servers it seems to be most people who want one can get one within a couple of weeks just by shopping.

Which is a pretty retarded thing to do and NOT their intent at all.

Originally this was designed for GUILD housing, not personal housing.
In terms of guild housing the system made sense.

It doesn't for personal housing, because you could never create enough wards for everyone to have his own house. You have to go the route of "personal instance".

BTW: your house is nothing special if it is tucked away in <instanced ward 09876> that only gets visited by 25? players that have their house in the same ward.
There really isn't much difference to personal garrison instances. IN our housing ward I see the same 10-20 people all the time.

[Faroth]

Which is a pretty retarded thing to do and NOT their intent at all.

Originally this was designed for GUILD housing, not personal housing.
In terms of guild housing the system made sense.

It doesn't for personal housing, because you could never create enough wards for everyone to have his own house. You have to go the route of "personal instance".

BTW: your house is nothing special if it is tucked away in <instanced ward 09876> that only gets visited by 25? players that have their house in the same ward.
There really isn't much difference to personal garrison instances. IN our housing ward I see the same 10-20 people all the time.

Have to agree. This is the main reason I thought housing should have been FC rather than personal and apartments created for individuals with 3 rooms or so. Personally, I'm pretty darn pleased with my private chambers, though.

Yeah, yeah, I know SC will point out that means every single player can't have every single thing, but I think that "everyone deserves everything" was a negative for WoW in the long term. We're never going to agree on that aspect design philosophy, I don't think.

[Eleccybubb]

I just need to start making Gil again towards a medium one. Don't mind a small one but would like to try at least for medium.

[Kazgrel]

What's to stop someone from getting a few random signatures together, form their own FC, boot everyone but themselves in order to purchase a house, if they wanted their own house?

Note: I've never tried to do that myself.

Unrelated: Imgur gallery someone put together featuring some of the new gear in 3.3. The first 3 look to be from the new GC ranks...and I'm glad I'm Maelstrom, heh (although I wouldn't mind that Flames outfit either. Adder one is...eh, lose the hat and it's ok). Next 2 likely are new rewards from HW beast tribes. Next 3 are either from the new 24 man or possibly the 2 new dungeons. The 2 "new ironworks sets" are the gathering and crafting sets. Then there's some fuzzy bacon.

[Wrecktangle]

It would fantastic in instanced content, perhaps. (Procedurally generated instanced platformer dungeons! Make it happen, someone.) Or side content in the fashion that GW2 does jumping puzzles, that'd be cool.

But as the primary design of the open world? I dunno, seems like you'd do it once and then it'd be a huge nuisance - or just plain skipped - every other time.

This is why we discuss things. I could definitely get behind procedurally generated content in that manner. I am not willing to write off the persistent world setup just yet, but I can completely see where you are coming from.