Blizzard finally pulls the plug on welfare pvp gear.

[Snegovik]

The issue there is without the massive pvp talent grind you will missing so much you won't be able to do well even with good pve gear.

Yep this, it seems ppl forget about our PvP talent tree. Difference is currently we have to farm gear to do well in pvp. In legion we have to grind pvp talents to do well in pvp, they basically swapped pvp talents for pvp gear grind.

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It kind of will matter if clearing a few heroic bosses and 1-2 mythic ones will equip you with better gear than the majority of the pvp playerbase.

It will only matter in duels and Wpvp, since in rated pvp there will be set templates of stats for each spec, at least as of now, but it may change before release. Unless those stats will be affected by how high is ilvl of the gear?

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The way they've described how it works in Legion sounds a lot like the warforged rewards from current mythic dungeons, however, which can scale up a *lot*, and they've mentioned that world questing has the potential to reward you with raid quality gear if you're lucky. It would make sense for PvP gearing to work the same way.

Also world kills will have a small change drop legendaries.

[Kioshi]

You know people already have something to complain about right? Epic gear isn't going to matter, when it will take someone 100 ilevel to even be 10% stronger. 100 ilevel difference is almost a whole expansion worth of ilevel. Hell, if blizzard made Raid loot scale like this (ilevel 900 is 10% stronger than someone with ilevel 800), I don't even think players would care if they had Quest Greens on. If they did this, I will be willing to gear in all greens/blues to raid. Lets see highest ilevel for Heroic dungeon in WoD is 620, Mythic HFC gear is 735, imagine if that gave a 10% increase only.

"Someone with item level 900 gear is only 10% stronger than someone with item level 800 gear. (The same increase that a 10 item level increase gives in Warlords)"

[Wow]

Unless those stats will be affected by how high is ilvl of the gear?

Stats go up 1% for every 10 ilvl

Base pvp gear vs elite 6%
Base pvp gear vs mythic 9.5%
elite vs mythic 3.5%

[Kagthul]

I don't understand your post? You don't even know that trinkets are not active in PVP. Yet you complained anyway?

This is the best system ever. The game is more accessible to a broader audience.

Uhh.. what? The new PvP system is LESS accessible than the current system. In the current system, 6 hours of playtime without even PvPing and you're in full Honor Gear that is only 10 iLevels below Conquest gear. If you come over from PvE, if you're doing heroic raids, you're already Honor geared effectively.

In Legion, PvE'ers will actually have an advantage (lol max PvP iLevel 35 levels lower than Mythic, and 20 lower than Heroic!) over people who PvP.

People who did not PVP much can now go and do PVP without the fear and frustration of being 1-shoted.

You haven't been able to be one-shotted for the entirety of WoD. The difference between Honor gear and CQ gear has been 15 iLevels or less the entire expansion, and Honor gear has been able to be earned without PvPing, in a matter of hours, for the entire xpac.

The new system in Legion is NOT more accessible. You have to grind for gear that is substandard. You CANNOT earn worthwhile gear from Randoms (gear rewards top out at Heroic Dungeon iLevel) - you MUST play Rated PvP to get gear that is even as good as LFR. You have to be a fucking GLADIATOR to get gear that is 35 iLevels lower than Mythic Raids and 20 levels lower than Heroic Raids!

Oh and on top of all this? You have to spend 3+ weeks per toon (depending on hours/day played, im sure it can be done in a lot less, but im not going to use no-lifes as a factor in any argument) grinding Honor Levels, or you're quite literally WORSE for your team than being undergeared is now. Some classes are basically UNPLAYABLE without at least the second tier unlocked.

People who did not like PVE may want to do some to get gear.

Forgot to add that gear is not everything in this game, not anymore

.... its more important than ever, particularly in PvE, where a couple trinket, set, and legendary items can individually boost dps by 30+%

[Wow]

You know people already have something to complain about right? Epic gear isn't going to matter, when it will take someone 100 ilevel to even be 10% stronger. 100 ilevel difference is almost a whole expansion worth of ilevel.

And in legion it jumps that much in just first tier lol.

[Livevil]

It will only matter in duels and Wpvp, since in rated pvp there will be set templates of stats for each spec, at least as of now, but it may change before release. Unless those stats will be affected by how high is ilvl of the gear?

The bigger ilvl you got, the more overall stats you get from the pre determined stat template with 1ilvl translating to 0,1% more stats. It's not gonna be the full 50 ilvl stat difference like in duels and wpvp but it will still be 5% more stats from the template. 5% in wod terms is like missing half your conquest gear.

[Snegovik]

Stats go up 1% for every 10 ilvl

Base pvp gear vs elite 6%
Base pvp gear vs mythic 9.5%
elite vs mythic 3.5%

Thank you sir, very helpful info =)

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The bigger ilvl you got, the more overall stats you get from the pre determined stat template with 1ilvl translating to 0,1% more stats. It's not gonna be the full 50 ilvl stat difference like in duels and wpvp but it will still be 5% more stats from the template. 5% in wod terms is like missing half your conquest gear.

Well I guess all those Mythic guilds will make some good cash from selling Mythic gears to pvpers. I hope blizzard will find a way some how balance that, since as you mentioned killing few mythic bosses (or buying those kills) gives u better gear than elite pvp sets.

[Kagthul]

"Someone with item level 900 gear is only 10% stronger than someone with item level 800 gear. (The same increase that a 10 item level increase gives in Warlords)"

Right... which is the same difference between entry level gear now, and top level gear now. (Actually its about 9.2% in WoD).

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You know people already have something to complain about right? Epic gear isn't going to matter, when it will take someone 100 ilevel to even be 10% stronger. 100 ilevel difference is almost a whole expansion worth of ilevel.

For one, it isn't about how many iLevels it takes to get stronger, it's about their assertion that it would be better than it is now... which is absolutely false.

Honor gear is 9.2% behind CQ gear right now. You can be Honor geared in mere hours without PvPing at all.

When Legion launches... the gap between "entry level" and "geared" will STILL be 10% - so there's not really a change AT ALL. (I take that back, actually - a it stands now, even a casual random BGer can get full CQ gear and close the gap to zero, in Legion, that will NOT be possible, so its actually worse).

And as for 100 iLevels being an entire xpansion?

WoD started at 480. We ended at 745+. 265 iLevels.

the gap from fresh 110 (iLevel 800 from regular 110 dungeons/quests) to Mythic in the first tier alone is 105-111 iLevels (Mythic is 905 + warforged possibly)

[Cempa]

...entry level gear players get ROFLstomped by fully geared players .. It is NO CONTEST .. buffs/red ball/CD's and laugh as the poor entry level geared player dies inside of a stun!

So on live all casuals (non rated and non raiders) can eventually (after weeks or much gold) get the best gear .. Legion has put a barrier which is Mythic+Rating .. So how is this better?

In other words, casuals get the finger yet again ..

[Mafic]

Blizz just dropped a turd in the punch bowl. If it has to be explained to Holinka why this is a bad idea then it will go live and explode in their faces once more.

[purebalance]

Well gear is less relevant now, so...

Actually they flat out said in the post basically that gear is actually exactly as relevant as it was in WoD short of trinkets. The front page flat out says it.

[Deleted]

Right... which is the same difference between entry level gear now, and top level gear now. (Actually its about 9.2% in WoD).

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For one, it isn't about how many iLevels it takes to get stronger, it's about their assertion that it would be better than it is now... which is absolutely false.

Honor gear is 9.2% behind CQ gear right now. You can be Honor geared in mere hours without PvPing at all.

When Legion launches... the gap between "entry level" and "geared" will STILL be 10% - so there's not really a change AT ALL. (I take that back, actually - a it stands now, even a casual random BGer can get full CQ gear and close the gap to zero, in Legion, that will NOT be possible, so its actually worse).

And as for 100 iLevels being an entire xpansion?

WoD started at 480. We ended at 745+. 265 iLevels.

the gap from fresh 110 (iLevel 800 from regular 110 dungeons/quests) to Mythic in the first tier alone is 105-111 iLevels (Mythic is 905 + warforged possibly)

Afaik Legion makes everyone have the same ilvl in BGs and arenas. Making your post invalid..
Right?

[purebalance]

...entry level gear players get ROFLstomped by fully geared players .. It is NO CONTEST .. buffs/red ball/CD's and laugh as the poor entry level geared player dies inside of a stun!

So on live all casuals (non rated and non raiders) can eventually (after weeks or much gold) get the best gear .. Legion has put a barrier which is Mythic+Rating .. So how is this better?

In other words, casuals get the finger yet again ..

You shouldn't "eventually" get the best gear just by playing. What you're claiming has nothing to do with casual and everything to do with either being bad or unwilling to play in rated.

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Afaik Legion makes everyone have the same ilvl in BGs and arenas. Making your post invalid..
Right?

Nope.

Gear is neutralized to a degree and then stats are raised based on average ilvl. 100 ilvl difference means you have 10% more stats.

[RedGamer030]

100 ilvls is a 10% power difference in Legion, instead of the 10 ilvls for the same power difference in Warlords of Draenor.

[Taeldorian]

Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah if this is true I think that helps me make my final decision on whether or not I return for Legion.

There's this term. It's called placeholder. They've already stated if you're maxed out with mythic gear you aren't above the Pvpers with glad pvp gear but you will be above those with lower tier pvp gear.

Nothing to complain or cry about, the difference is extremely small and it's also non existent if your a glad vs a mythic raider. People wanted better players to be rewarded with better shit and we got it. Now mythic pve players and glad Pvpers will be on par with each other and only 10% ahead of everyone else. 10% is also extremely small.

It makes perfect sense. If you're good at the game and are doing end game content on the hardest level possible (mythic pve, glad pvp) then you get better gear than the people who are worse than you and are doing normal/heroic raids and are competing in a lower bracket of PvP. That's what people have wanted for a while. It's also not a big difference, at all.

[Livevil]

100 ilvls is a 10% power difference in Legion, instead of the 10 ilvls for the same power difference in Warlords of Draenor.

Too bad you will never be able to catch up in Legion whereas in WoD you can do a couple of 4 hour sessions of low mmr capping and you're done for the entire season.

[Snegovik]

Too bad you will never be able to catch up in Legion whereas in WoD you can do a couple of 4 hour sessions of low mmr capping and you're done for the entire season.

I mean u still will be able to catch up, but old school way, new toons will have to grind up rating to get pvp elite gear = conquest on live, oppose to just getting full conquest set after 1 week of farming 2s/ashran/buying conquest tokens. I know it will be frustrating for people who play multiple toons, but for players like myself, who mains 1 toon per season, it wont bare any differences on the catch up system.

[Cempa]

[QUOTE=purebalance;40484145]You shouldn't "eventually" get the best gear just by playing. What you're claiming has nothing to do with casual and everything to do with either being bad or unwilling to play in rated.

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Absolutely not! Name calling just blows any kind of argument you may have out of the water .. Casuals have little desire to raid at the highest level (hours of wiping on one boss is mental by the way) or play rated PvP let alone go for Gladiator!

We want to log in an hour or two a day and enjoy the game ..

By having a hardcore wall up in PvP you are shooting yourself in the foot .. The great majority of the players are CASUALS and as soon as they realize how awaful the random BG gaming experience has become what do you think they will do?

Using the very same argument Blizz used (raid bosses don't care about getting ROFL stomped but real humans have emotions) now imagine Legion with raid buffed pre mades in Mythic/Glad gear trolling randoms for hours??

[Snegovik]

[QUOTE=Cempa;40484303]

You shouldn't "eventually" get the best gear just by playing. What you're claiming has nothing to do with casual and everything to do with either being bad or unwilling to play in rated.

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Absolutely not! Name calling just blows any kind of argument you may have out of the water .. Casuals have little desire to raid at the highest level (hours of wiping on one boss is mental by the way) or play rated PvP let alone go for Gladiator!

We want to log in an hour or two a day and enjoy the game ..

By having a hardcore wall up in PvP you are shooting yourself in the foot .. The great majority of the players are CASUALS and as soon as they realize how awaful the random BG gaming experience has become what do you think they will do?

Using the very same argument Blizz used (raid bosses don't care about getting ROFL stomped but real humans have emotions) now imagine Legion with raid buffed pre mades in Mythic/Glad gear trolling randoms for hours??

I know where you are coming from, but i also know how pvpers feel who spend hours and hours competing to get higher ranking in rated pvp. As you mentioned it is nice to be able to play casual BGs and being able to get conquest gear equaled in ilvl for R1/Glads; however, the later may say it is unfair that ppl spend month of game time to get high rating to have equal gear to some1 who never stepped into rated arena and only does casual BGs, you know? I can't say which side has a more valid argument, but in the end of the day either way you go towards more casual friendly or pvp rated friendly, some1 always gets a shorter end of a stick.

[Vurdah]

There's this term. It's called placeholder. They've already stated if you're maxed out with mythic gear you aren't above the Pvpers with glad pvp gear but you will be above those with lower tier pvp gear.

Nothing to complain or cry about, the difference is extremely small and it's also non existent if your a glad vs a mythic raider. People wanted better players to be rewarded with better shit and we got it. Now mythic pve players and glad Pvpers will be on par with each other and only 10% ahead of everyone else. 10% is also extremely small.

It makes perfect sense. If you're good at the game and are doing end game content on the hardest level possible (mythic pve, glad pvp) then you get better gear than the people who are worse than you and are doing normal/heroic raids and are competing in a lower bracket of PvP. That's what people have wanted for a while. It's also not a big difference, at all.

1. I said 'if'. Do you know what if means?

2. They also said the power difference was going to be 5%. Not that pvp gear compared to mythic gear would be 5% so they should have been more clear. And if you think 5% between top players won't be a big difference you are mistaken.

3. You do realize that the link for that gear is the elite gear ie top end gear right? And the mythic is like 905 or some shit.