Legion PvP gearing - dev watercooler

[Mafic]

Pvp may have to do some pve but pve won't have to pvp. Pve gear is way better than pvp, Normal pve (875) = elite pvp gear (870). Meanwhile the pve'er would need to get 1700+ just to get 840 gear why would they pvp? And all pvp gear is rng stats and rng what piece you get...

I can't believe Blizz thinks LFR should reward better gear than 95% of PVP players will ever see in Legion.

[Khain]

Pvp may have to do some pve but pve won't have to pvp. Pve gear is way better than pvp, Normal pve (875) = elite pvp gear (870). Meanwhile the pve'er would need to get 1700+ just to get 840 gear why would they pvp? And all pvp gear is rng stats and rng what piece you get...

They just said that elite pvp gear would be the same ilvl as mythic gear.

[Wow]

They just said that elite pvp gear would be the same ilvl as mythic gear.

Three things blizzard says lots of things that don't happen, this what is currently in the game files, anything can change.

[Deleted]

They only mention how skirmish and random pvp is like heroic dungeon => casual crap. You want to PVP? Arena or RBG. That's all. Call legacy to WoD servers lulz.

[Mafic]

They just said that elite pvp gear would be the same ilvl as mythic gear.

Blizz has a tendency of lying a lot.

[Khain]

Blizz has a tendency of lying a lot.

Oh ok, so we're always assuming that Blizzard is lying.

[rda]

They only mention how skirmish and random pvp is like heroic dungeon => casual crap. You want to PVP? Arena or RBG. That's all. Call legacy to WoD servers lulz.

Nah.

You want to PVP? Raid. LFR gear stomps gear from random BGs, raid gear stomps gear from rated PVP. Look at the ilvls.

Welcome to Legion.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, I will say that Blizzard are preying on people's ignorance with this "100 ilvls in Legion will only give you 10% stats, unlike today where you get the same amount from 10 ilvls". There are two things here:

1.

People hear the above phrase and think that due to this scaling in Legion, the difference in power between relatively ungeared and relatively geared will be smaller in Legion than in WoD / MoP / Cata. This is not the case.

Yes, Legion has this scaling factor that we don't have today. But it doesn't have ilvl altering mechanics which boost / cap all ilvls into a narrow range in BGs / arenas that we do have today. These ilvl altering mechanics produce about the same 10% difference that they are talking about in the phrase.

(Now, the difference is that in WoD / MoP / Cata, you can get to the top of the ilvl range by doing PVP and getting conquest - without any ratings - and you can't do the same in Legion, but let's even ignore that for this post.)

2.

People hear the above phrase and think that the difference in Legion is so small, it hardly matters. This is not the case.

As said, 10% is about the same difference as one we always had between honor gear and conquest gear. Does that difference matter? Hell, yes. Now, sure, yeah, perhaps the real typical difference between relatively ungeared and relatively geared will be smaller. Maybe not 10%, but 7%, looking at the ilvls. Does *that* difference matter? Absolutely, yes, that's a difference between a guy in full conquest and a guy in full honor plus two-three conquest pieces (and honor weapons for those who don't know much about how current PVP gearing works).

That's about it. The blue is deceptive.

[Deleted]

Exactly, even now buying mythic carry is very expensive, meanwhile buying 2,3k RBG costs like 30 bucks from the russians, and you will be able to get mytic level gear from that. I can see alot of mythic progress raiders now buying RBG carry to get a few more mythic lvl items.
You buy RBG boost from the russians that use like 40 accounts and stuff to get matchmaked with their own accounts, same has been done for years now.

But pvp gear will be gated, only a couple rng pieces per week. You would have to buy a boost every week for at least 1-2months? Vendors are gone.

[ComputerNerd]

Why does PVP items work in PVE at all. PVP items should just be Heroic Dungeon ILVL forever and then scale inside the bg/arena depending on its quality and season.

Keeps PVP gear progression intact for the plebs who care about gear in PvP and it doesn't make PVE content skippable/worthless down the track.

For the reasons they stated.
PvE has an opponent progression, PvP does not.
Therefore starting late in PvP places you at a gear disadvantage.
PvE you can pick the opponents you are geared for, which you cannot in PvP.

[Daffan]

For the reasons they stated.
PvE has an opponent progression, PvP does not.
Therefore starting late in PvP places you at a gear disadvantage.
PvE you can pick the opponents you are geared for, which you cannot in PvP.

But PVP the item levels produce tiny differences in Legion.

Secondly, you don't have to start from the bottom - you start at the season that's current which helps loads in PvP.

by s2 and s3 it's just welfare like WoD again.

Still didn't give a good reason why pvp gear in pve is good. or countered the negative where it makes pve content as seasons release more skippable/obsolete. Just like WoD, 90% of the PvE is trash because of PVP gear.

[Deleted]

But PVP the item levels produce tiny differences in Legion.

Secondly, you don't have to start from the bottom - you start at the season that's current which helps loads in PvP.

by s2 and s3 it's just welfare like WoD again.

Still didn't give a good reason why pvp gear in pve is good. or countered the negative where it makes pve content as seasons release more skippable/obsolete. Just like WoD, 90% of the PvE is trash because of PVP gear.

We're talking during normal progression of an expansion right? Not the last half of a 14 month content drought that forced blizzard to squeeze a 2nd pvp season in a single raid? If so the honor gear for 6.2 is @ 670ilvl which makes it equivalent to hc highmaul and inferior to LFR gear. Conquest is @ 700 which is just 5 ilvls above emp baleful and take a good 4 months+ to farm by capping each week. Same applies to the gear ilvl at the start of an expansion.

So not sure what you're crying about. If your complaint is about the current pvp gear maybe you should focus your qqing at blizzard and their huge content droughts which are the primary reason for abnormally strong pvp gear.

[Osmeric]

Pvp may have to do some pve but pve won't have to pvp. Pve gear is way better than pvp, Normal pve (875) = elite pvp gear (870). Meanwhile the pve'er would need to get 1700+ just to get 840 gear why would they pvp? And all pvp gear is rng stats and rng what piece you get...

It's going to be just like the start of Wrath. Remember that? You needed a rating to even buy honor gear. I think there was one slot (libram?) that didn't need a rating.

They changed that pretty quickly when PvP participation imploded.

[Deleted]

It's going to be just like the start of Wrath. Remember that? You needed a rating to even buy honor gear. I think there was one slot (libram?) that didn't need a rating.

They changed that pretty quickly when PvP participation imploded.

Also there was VOA for free Epic PvP gear and DK/Paladin in Arena so start of wrath had more than 1 problem. Majority of the PvP implosion were Divine Storm doing Holy damage and unkillable DK with mega burst.

[Osmeric]

Also there was VOA for free Epic PvP gear and DK/Paladin in Arena so start of wrath had more than 1 problem. Majority of the PvP implosion were Divine Storm doing Holy damage and unkillable DK with mega burst.

Wintergrasp was the only thing that saved PvP for me. I know I did Wintergrasp and no other PvP at that time. As a person who did only casual PvP, BGs were utterly pointless.

It was amusing listening to higher skill PvPers complaining about how the ratings ladders were collapsing, though. They had to redesign the rating system completely to avoid that.

[Deleted]

Wintergrasp was the only thing that saved PvP for me. I know I did Wintergrasp and no other PvP at that time. As a person who did only casual PvP, BGs were utterly pointless.

It was amusing listening to higher skill PvPers complaining about how the ratings ladders were collapsing, though. They had to redesign the rating system completely to avoid that.

It is not like they fixed anything, later on in 3.2 -> 3.3 Bladestorm Macroed with Sweeping Strikes for double damage was the flavour of the month and was called "Skillstorm" and this happened each single patch up to 6.2.2 where people still find bugs like this recent +500% haste bug and people doing overnight jumps to Rating 2700 because of 1 shotting people in arena. Every single patch we see this type of bug or something game breaking.

This is the reason why PvP in wow can't be an esport right now. It is too broken. But it is not like it started in Wrath... in vanilla you had "naked rogue oneshotting people" or warrior stunlocking people or rogue stunlocking people. It was wrath to bring Diminishing Returns on CC .... gotta mention SL-SL lock from TBC in honorable spot of brokenmonium.

[Daffan]

We're talking during normal progression of an expansion right? Not the last half of a 14 month content drought that forced blizzard to squeeze a 2nd pvp season in a single raid? If so the honor gear for 6.2 is @ 670ilvl which makes it equivalent to hc highmaul and inferior to LFR gear. Conquest is @ 700 which is just 5 ilvls above emp baleful and take a good 4 months+ to farm by capping each week. Same applies to the gear ilvl at the start of an expansion.

So not sure what you're crying about. If your complaint is about the current pvp gear maybe you should focus your qqing at blizzard and their huge content droughts which are the primary reason for abnormally strong pvp gear.

Your avg player doesn't do normal progression nor beat the content before the next progression is introduced.

avg PVE player never even uses their original conqeust cap until S2 when the gear is much, much better then all the original pve content.

Even if we remove s3, 670/700 is still better then a ton of PVE content. Emp baleful is as stupid (Even worse because it came out dinky dink with HFC), but not the thread title.

[Deleted]

Your avg player doesn't do normal progression nor beat the content before the next progression is introduced.

avg PVE player never even uses their original conqeust cap until S2 when the gear is much, much better then all the original pve content.

Even if we remove s3, 670/700 is still better then a ton of PVE content. Emp baleful is as stupid (Even worse because it came out dinky dink with HFC), but not the thread title.

Not sure what you are saying. HFC LFR is still better than 670 and most items from the previous raids. Crafted were much better. Emp Baleful much better. Conquest still takes 4 months to get, by which time the race is even over and you should be already in full heroic hfc+.

If your concern is that 5-6 months after the release of a certain raid, hfc for example, your alt can use his conquest to buy pvp gear and skip previous patch raids like brf, honestly who give a shit? Who wants to go back to farming brf in order to gear up for hfc??

[Daffan]

Not sure what you are saying. HFC LFR is still better than 670 and most items from the previous raids. Crafted were much better. Emp Baleful much better. Conquest still takes 4 months to get, by which time the race is even over and you should be already in full heroic hfc+.

If your concern is that 5-6 months after the release of a certain raid, hfc for example, your alt can use his conquest to buy pvp gear and skip previous patch raids like brf, honestly who give a shit? Who wants to go back to farming brf in order to gear up for hfc??

Why would it be 5-6 months after? And why does it take 4 months from the go?

Next, people who never did hm/brf in the first place might want to actually do it. Secondly on that front, people who skip over it run out of content faster. Content drought isin't just because they aren't releasing a raid every 2 months, it's because people can skip/finish the content in 2 days with emp baleful/any pvp gear.

Lastly, by giving out welfare that is really good, even months later- it hurts professions for everyone (lol buy arena wins > professions), just damages the pve content for the avg player imo

There is no real reason they need pvp gear to work in PVE. Especially when they have pvp scaling system (eg, 700 pvp scales to 730 in bg/arena) AND in Legion they are nerfing gear differences.

[Deleted]

Why would it be 5-6 months after? And why does it take 4 months from the go?

Next, people who never did hm/brf in the first place might want to actually do it. Secondly on that front, people who skip over it run out of content faster. Content drought isin't just because they aren't releasing a raid every 2 months, it's because people can skip/finish the content in 2 days with emp baleful/any pvp gear.

Lastly, by giving out welfare that is really good, even months later- it hurts professions for everyone (lol buy arena wins > professions), just damages the pve content for the avg player imo

It takes 5-6 months because you have 1700 conquest cap per week, so you need to wait for it to accumulate @ 1500 points per week. It doesnt carry over from one season to another.

Secondly if people want to do previous raids, they can go ahead and do so. Having extra ways to catch up in gear doesnt mean you will skip them whether you like it or not. Also, i doubt your average player can clear the current mythic raid in just 2 months.

Lastly, the abnormally strong pvp gear came with 6.2.3 which was in november about 6 months after HFC was first released. At that point race was over, professions were over and everyone was starting to prepare for the next expansion. Everybody who cared about pve and were serious about it had already completed their goals or should have. If anything, your average player had a little help with that since it gave him an extra edge to clear hc archimonde in case he hadnt done yet.

[Mafic]

LFR gear should not be starting PVP gear for PVP.

This is straight up dumb. There is a reason why PVE raiders hate LFR. One more reason to now.