Blizzard finally pulls the plug on welfare pvp gear.

[Deleted]

You shouldn't "eventually" get the best gear just by playing. What you're claiming has nothing to do with casual and everything to do with either being bad or unwilling to play in rated.

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Nope.

Gear is neutralized to a degree and then stats are raised based on average ilvl. 100 ilvl difference means you have 10% more stats.

10% power seems allright to me to be honest. And this is for people with no gear right.

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Too bad you will never be able to catch up in Legion whereas in WoD you can do a couple of 4 hour sessions of low mmr capping and you're done for the entire season.

And this is good? rofl

[Aleax]

When they added the catchup mechanic in MoP

Before the catchup, pve gear for pve was superior, if you use the catchup, you are very late in the xpac.

PvP gear should remain trash in pve, or there shouldn't be a catchup, is this the argument around?

[Livevil]

10% power seems allright to me to be honest. And this is for people with no gear right.

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And this is good? rofl

How is it not better? rofl. 8 hours of casual play and any gear power gap is covered

[RedGamer030]

Too bad you will never be able to catch up in Legion whereas in WoD you can do a couple of 4 hour sessions of low mmr capping and you're done for the entire season.

Do not need to "catch up" if players do not even have a 10% advantage over new PvPers...

[Deleted]

Did you cancel your sub in wotlk and are back now? Well yeah. Epics are awesome but some blues overlevel them for 30 ilvl in pvp. It's very hard and very anticasual (sine diremaul vanilla) to understand. I just hope blizzard works for you and me at the same time... because well even with this thread you seem to not notice.

[Livevil]

Do not need to "catch up" if players do not even have a 10% advantage over new PvPers...

What kind of moronic argument is that? Enchants/flasks etc make up less than 1% of your total stats. Do you know many raiding guilds that would accept you on progression raids if you lacked them?

[Cempa]

[QUOTE=Snegovik;40484340]

I know where you are coming from, but i also know how pvpers feel who spend hours and hours competing to get higher ranking in rated pvp. As you mentioned it is nice to be able to play casual BGs and being able to get conquest gear equaled in ilvl for R1/Glads; however, the later may say it is unfair that ppl spend month of game time to get high rating to have equal gear to some1 who never stepped into rated arena and only does casual BGs, you know? I can't say which side has a more valid argument, but in the end of the day either way you go towards more casual friendly or pvp rated friendly, some1 always gets a shorter end of a stick.

Honestly, what does a rated PvP player want from a casual BG? Lets be brutely honest guys?!

[Mafic]

For the people that failed grade school:

Current PVP system (WoD):

1. It has a catchup mechanism for conquest if you didn't start season day 1.
2. Honor gear literally takes hours to fully equip.
3. You can eventually have the same gear as top PVP players (conquest) because of catchup mechanic
4. All gear is capped in instanced PVP and lower level gear is scaled up while PVE gear is capped in instanced PVP.

Legion:

1. No catchup mechanic. Must grind out honor levels to unlock PVP talents.
2. Honor gear may take 1 week for one player due to RNG for all slots while for another player it may take a month or more. And this is blue honor PVP gear.
3. You can never catchup to a player that has mythic raid gear or elite PVP gear simply doing PVP It is mathematically near impossible (eg number of gladiators per season as an example).
4. They are removing the cap in instanced PVP and removing scaling of gear in world PVP.

PVP gear from boxes also lack set bonuses. PVP gear also doesn't have additional rolls like PVE gear.

Legion PVE gear > PVP gear.

[Flaks]

I don't think people understand that there's pretty much no gear progression for players that don't want to get into doing organized things in game outside of leveling.

This change is horrible and pretty much taking us back to vanilla levels of segregating players. Wotlk and all expansions after it allowed more players to gear up at their own pace but at least continue to progress their characters even if they never got heroic mode raid gear. No gear through valor or honor points negates this completely.

[RedGamer030]

What kind of moronic argument is that? Enchants/flasks etc make up less than 1% of your total stats. Do you know many raiding guilds that would accept you on progression raids if you lacked them?

"What kind of moronic argument is that?" You are on a COMPLETELY different planet here. This thread is about PvP, no PvE.

[Cempa]

I don't think people understand that there's pretty much no gear progression for players that don't want to get into doing organized things in game outside of leveling.

This change is horrible and pretty much taking us back to vanilla levels of segregating players. Wotlk and all expansions after it allowed more players to gear up at their own pace but at least continue to progress their characters even if they never got heroic mode raid gear. No gear through valor or honor points negates this completely.

Makes one wounder why push more business towards raid boosting services?

PvP boosting services gets accounts banned = less subs BUT raid boosting no one cares about .. end result MONEY MONEY MONEY for blizz and those who own the boosting services ..

[Snegovik]

[QUOTE=Cempa;40484615]

Honestly, what does a rated PvP player want from a casual BG? Lets be brutely honest guys?!

They (I used to as well, but not any more since i can care less :P ) believe that ppl who achieve high rating should be rewarded with better gear than some1 who never does arena, stand out among every1 else, some may feel cheated if every1 has same gear as a r1/glad player. Some (i dont say all or say names, since only opinions of my old pvp mates in prev xpacs) may say why not then give Mythic pve gear to ppl who does LFR.

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Makes one wounder why push more business towards raid boosting services?

PvP boosting services gets accounts banned = less subs BUT raid boosting no one cares about .. end result MONEY MONEY MONEY for blizz and those who own the boosting services ..

The main reason because usually for PvP boosting, it requires sharing account for piloting one's char, while in PVE boosting, u just afk while pve guild does all the work for u, no account sharing no breaking official blizzard's rules. Not saying one is more moral than another.

[Livevil]

"What kind of moronic argument is that?" You are on a COMPLETELY different planet here. This thread is about PvP, no PvE.

When people don't tolerate a fucking stat disadvantage of sub 1%, during a scripted, static pve encounter, you think it's perfectly fine to allow up to 10% stat differences in pvp just because YOU think it's nothing major?"What kind of moronic argument is that?"

[Kauko]

Gear in PVP will not be a problem. We will be on the same train with someone with a bit better gear. 1% stronger gear is NOT a problem for 99% of players. Only for hardcore Arena PVPers but those already know that you have to work hard to get somewhere and will grind the gear.

The main problem that I see here is in fact, that PVPers are f*cked in World PVE. And here the main difference will show. Doing World quests will be a pain in the ass with this gear. And because of that, we will be forced to do Dungeons, LFR, Raid...

Again, PVP vs PVE gear in PVP content will not be a problem. PVP gear in World PVE, thats the problem!

[Snegovik]

They haven't said anything on if that will happen the only pvp gear in the game files is 810 blues unrated gear, 840 epics which holinka has said takes 1700+, and the 870 gear and nothing on what rating gets it.

Hey mate, just saw on the front page blue post " which has its item level increased based on your rating in the bracket." What's your thoughts? Do you think they mean ilvl will be increasing upto ilvl 870 LegionS1 or do you think it will go up to 900 lets say at 2.8kcr ?

[Deleted]

Higher rating = higher item level reward. Pretty simple and also a fair change. In WOD you just had to complete 1 ashran every week, and you got 1 piece of the best pvp gear available. That was a bit unfair imo.
Finally skills matters - no more easy obtainable epic gear in pvp.
Funny - world quests have better rewards (than casual pvp) .. It is a mmo, get out in the world and do some quests some world quests are also pvp quests like mounted combat in stormheim

Ps: I also remember something about prestige level gives better rewards. So if you spend alot of time doing casual bgs, your item level will grow (from gear you get in the next prestige honor talent progression )

[OreoLover]

Gear in PVP will not be a problem. We will be on the same train with someone with a bit better gear. 1% stronger gear is NOT a problem for 99% of players. Only for hardcore Arena PVPers but those already know that you have to work hard to get somewhere and will grind the gear.

The main problem that I see here is in fact, that PVPers are f*cked in World PVE. And here the main difference will show. Doing World quests will be a pain in the ass with this gear. And because of that, we will be forced to do Dungeons, LFR, Raid...

Again, PVP vs PVE gear in PVP content will not be a problem. PVP gear in World PVE, thats the problem!

It isn't likely to end up that way. Even if it does, that's basically just a minor turn-around from how it's been.

"Forced to..." just no...compared to what a PVE player would go through for some PVP boost items, any difficulty questing for a PVP player will be completely solved by quest rewards. -_-

[l0nglive]

For the people that failed grade school:

Current PVP system (WoD):

1. It has a catchup mechanism for conquest if you didn't start season day 1.
2. Honor gear literally takes hours to fully equip.
3. You can eventually have the same gear as top PVP players (conquest) because of catchup mechanic
4. All gear is capped in instanced PVP and lower level gear is scaled up while PVE gear is capped in instanced PVP.

Legion:

1. No catchup mechanic. Must grind out honor levels to unlock PVP talents.
2. Honor gear may take 1 week for one player due to RNG for all slots while for another player it may take a month or more. And this is blue honor PVP gear.
3. You can never catchup to a player that has mythic raid gear or elite PVP gear simply doing PVP It is mathematically near impossible (eg number of gladiators per season as an example).
4. They are removing the cap in instanced PVP and removing scaling of gear in world PVP.

PVP gear from boxes also lack set bonuses. PVP gear also doesn't have additional rolls like PVE gear.

Legion PVE gear > PVP gear.

I still prefer Legion system as a casual player. I played about 1 month doing Ashran and BGs with about 30 hours /played at max level. This is about the time I needed to farm Blue PVP gear.

At the moment, the gear gap in random BGs is huge. I lost most of them as Horde, and the obvious reason was that people are less geared. We had a druid with 390k HP vs a ~500k HP holy paladin. Two of us couldn't do anything to him. We also had an AB battle where 2 ally players will full conquest gear farmed 8 of us at the graveyard; both of them have about 500k HP. I understand skills come to play, but my observation was that ally PVPers are usually at about 500k HP while Horde often have several undergeared players with just 400k.

Assuming the gear gap in Legion is about 50 ilevel in season 1, it's just 5% which is quite reasonable. I'm sure my 475kHP pally can at least live long enough do something "meaningful" to a 500k HP player. This is what I'm hoping to see in Legion where gear is not an disadvantage.

I recalled the 3-week gear farming period was terrible as Horde. The argument that "few hours" of farming BGs and Ashran to full gear may be relevant to Alliance only. I remember my statistics was 6 wins over 30 games played. When I finally obtained the last 730 PVP gear, things really changed. I didn't feel pressured anymore, jumping around do all the healing like a pro. Gear definitely had an impact in my case.

I understand my experience is limited to casual BGs play, but that's my view to the topic.

The idea of never catching up with elite players is fine to me. 1 or 2% difference doesn't kill the game. CAtchup mechanic is irrelevant when gear is neutralized. I also don't see how Mythic raiders can somehow destroy PVPers; we are in generally better skilled that PVE players in PVP combat. Their gear advantage will not surpass the skill gap. The problem is now PVPers in World PVP situation where the gear gap is not scaled or capped. I wonder why Blizzard did away with the current WOD system.

[Eroginous]

No more free epics by doing only PvP anymore. Casual/Bad players like me that PvP only are basically doomed to blues from random boxes (that supposedly are worse than LFR gear) or actually forcing ourselves to Raid (I'm never going to Raid).

I understand why Blizzard is doing this. They've had a longtime struggle with PvP gear basically overlapping the vast majority of PvE content by being stronger than all entry level PvE gear. Ever since Cataclysm when they removed rating restrictions on gear, PvP gear became too easy to obtain and its power level was too powerful for how easy it was to get.

When they added the catchup mechanic in MoP, getting PvP gear was basically the optimal path for entry level PvE progression. Why do dungeons/LFR/Flex/normal when you can just tank mmr in 2's and farm bads until you have full conquest gear and jump straight into heroics?

That was the real issue with PvP gear and with WoD blizzard tried to alleviate this by making PvP gear item level lower than normal outside of PvP. Yet, the problem still remained, honor gear was still easy to obtain and better than anything from entry level PvE content. It was just faster to farm Ashran artifacts than it was to spend weeks farming Tanaan Jungle/LFR/Apexis crystals. This is a design flaw that Blizzard has known about for years but hasn't done anything about it until Legion.

So yeah people like me are doomed to PvE to get better gear. They want everyone not pushing rating in PvP to do Raiding. This is simply a ploy to push participation numbers for Raiding and PvE in general, there's zero equality in gear Legion despite what they claim. And this isn't even mentioning how artifact weapon grinding is based on PvE which still applies in PvP.

Even high rated PvP players I still think will be conned to do Raiding. We all know how powerful PvE trinkets are and I really don't think any PvP trinket from a lockbox is going to compete with how overpowered they make PvE trinkets. Some classes might get away with not having to do PvE, but the classes that depend on ridiculous damage (Warriors,DK's) to be viable will.

Whatever though. I'm not mad, just shocked that the free gear all these years has finally come to an end. And I'll admit it that I took advantage and depended on this design flaw.

Did you skip the part where they said pvp would still reward gear from boxes on par with raiding? So yeah, you're still getting your 'welfare' epics. Just won't help you stomp all over those players who are new to the level cap anymore.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

What kind of moronic argument is that? Enchants/flasks etc make up less than 1% of your total stats. Do you know many raiding guilds that would accept you on progression raids if you lacked them?

All of those things are easily obtained on the auction house. Getting elite gear is usually gated by rating or currency which takes time to farm up.