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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    And few Americans know about the Gulf of Tonkin

    Most chinese people have heard about Tiananmen, but really, they just don't care

    Most people just want to get on with their lives and not get in trouble or break the groupthink - that applies equally to USA/Europe and China/Russia
    Gulf of Tonkin and Tiananmen Man aren't equal. One is about democracy and freedom, the other is about finding a reason to wage war, something that's been done since Roman times. One robbed people of choice, the other was just political BS that goes on everywhere.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Gulf of Tonkin and Tiananmen Man aren't equal. One is about democracy and freedom, the other is about finding a reason to wage war, something that's been done since Roman times. One robbed people of choice, the other was just political BS that goes on everywhere.
    That's really not how the Chinese see it

    I think a lot of people in the west think that China is like North Korea but it really isn't

    Even outside the cities everyone is walking around with a smartphone and chatting on sina weibo gossiping about celebrities and movies

    All the kids are playing PC games and there's bars and restaurants and all the usual stuff everywhere, it's not as rich as the west obviously (the rural areas are no different from 3rd world places ) but it's not some totalitarian hellhole

    The Chinese government simply does not allow you to criticise their policies or their people, and they do what the mods here do: decide topics that are off-limits, and ban you for breaking the rules, simple as that (their bans sometimes take the form of forced labour camps)

    Since they own the platform, that is really no different from facebook or twitter's or MMO-champ's policies: their country, their rules on what is an allowable topic and what isn't

    Now obviously I hate that because I'm a free speech advocate and I think people should be allowed to say whatever they want, but that's just me
    Last edited by mmoca8403991fd; 2016-05-24 at 08:17 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    That's really not how the Chinese see it

    I think a lot of people in the west think that China is like North Korea but it really isn't

    Even outside the cities everyone is walking around with a smartphone and chatting on sina weibo gossiping about celebrities and movies

    All the kids are playing PC games and there's bars and restaurants and all the usual stuff everywhere, it's not as rich as the west obviously (the rural areas are no different from 3rd world places ) but it's not some totalitarian hellhole

    The Chinese government simply does not allow you to criticise their policies or their people, and they do what the mods here do: decide topics that are off-limits, and ban you for breaking the rules, simple as that (their bans sometimes take the form of forced labour camps)

    Since they own the platform, that is really no different from facebook or twitter's or MMO-champ's policies: their country, their rules on what is an allowable topic and what isn't

    Now obviously I hate that because I'm a free speech advocate and I think people should be allowed to say whatever they want, but that's just me
    The Chinese government lives in fear of their people.

    Kids in North Korea are happy too, they dont' know any better.

    The recent financial crisis in China terrorfied the government, it brought them to the brink of being overthrown so they scrambled to make sure everyoen was making a profit again.

    Anti-female, pro Chinese government, you are an interesting fellow.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  4. #24
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    The Chinese government lives in fear of their people.

    Kids in North Korea are happy too, they dont' know any better.

    The recent financial crisis in China terrorfied the government, it brought them to the brink of being overthrown so they scrambled to make sure everyoen was making a profit again.

    Anti-female, pro Chinese government, you are an interesting fellow.
    I'm neither anti-female nor pro-chinese government: I'm just willing to question assumptions that most hold without thinking and point out biases and hypocrisy

    The Chinese government don't see themselves as evil, they believe (partly rightly) that they have managed to drag China from being a third world nation to being a global superpower in record time

    They look at other countries like India that have been more free, more democratic and not as successful, and find their model validated

    The financial turmoil in China does terrify the government (and businesspeople) - part of why I travel there these days is to see first-hand what is going on

    And yes, China is in big trouble financially and economically, they are in perma-panic mode trying to plug the holes

    Now bear in mind, as a Hitchens-type free-speech advocate I hate the censorship in China

    I could express my disapproval of the Chinese government and their censorship and bias, but it would be a similar result to when I post about moderation here on MMO champ: get silenced because "those are the rules"
    Last edited by mmoca8403991fd; 2016-05-24 at 08:32 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    The Chinese government lives in fear of their people.

    Kids in North Korea are happy too, they dont' know any better.

    The recent financial crisis in China terrorfied the government, it brought them to the brink of being overthrown so they scrambled to make sure everyoen was making a profit again.

    Anti-female, pro Chinese government, you are an interesting fellow.
    Like any good totalitarian regime, the Chinese government has created a state of toxic co-dependence with its people. If the people actually overthrew the government the result wouldn't be pretty, it's a big country with lots of competing interests and no foreign countries would have any interest in stepping in to stabilize the situation. And because everybody knows this, the people by and large tolerate the repression because they really don't have much of an alternative.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    The Chinese government lives in fear of their people.

    Kids in North Korea are happy too, they dont' know any better.

    The recent financial crisis in China terrorfied the government, it brought them to the brink of being overthrown so they scrambled to make sure everyoen was making a profit again.

    Anti-female, pro Chinese government, you are an interesting fellow.
    Does knowing any better even matter?. If you know better do you have a voice?. The north Koreans are at least pure, they can weather the hardships because they are all alike. If the ebt card ever gets shut down in the usa we will see riots that will literally tear the country apart.

  7. #27
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    So far, I'm giving the match to @Xarim on points. He at least seems to be familiar with current events in China.
    @Hubcap, the Tienanmen bit is way worn out. Chinese know, and care about it to about the extent that Americans know and care about Kent State. Actually, I'd guess that Americans today are generally less aware of Kent State. For the Chinese I've talked to, it isn't precisely unimportant, it simply counts as something in the comparatively distant past that has been eclipsed by the rapid changes of recent years.
    With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Bosen's Avatar
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    I think companies can work within the limitations.
    There's a way to bring the Chinese version of Facebook to their people.

    It sounds like they have net nanny for the whole country.
    I think it's pretty interesting to see how a place like China or North Korea shape the culture of their societies.

  9. #29
    Deleted
    Well, I dont think that everyone should access to all information all the time.

    Censorship to a certain degree could work here as well.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    So far, I'm giving the match to @Xarim on points. He at least seems to be familiar with current events in China.
    @Hubcap, the Tienanmen bit is way worn out. Chinese know, and care about it to about the extent that Americans know and care about Kent State. Actually, I'd guess that Americans today are generally less aware of Kent State. For the Chinese I've talked to, it isn't precisely unimportant, it simply counts as something in the comparatively distant past that has been eclipsed by the rapid changes of recent years.
    I do see a bit of three dimensional chess going on here on the part of the Chinese government. By keeping their people effectively sheltered within a domestic online "safe space" they ensure that Westerners remain mostly uninformed about them - note, for example, the general tendency here to equate China with North Korea in terms of people's attitudes and overall outlook. And as long as they can do that, they ensure that Western media and internet users remain mostly hostile toward China, which is exactly the environment they want to create since their legitimacy largely rests on planting the idea in the people's minds that the rest of the world is out to get them and the government is the only entity capable of protecting them.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    Well, I dont think that everyone should access to all information all the time.

    Censorship to a certain degree could work here as well.
    And what would you censor?

  12. #32
    Damn, this map is awful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Gulf of Tonkin and Tiananmen Man aren't equal. One is about democracy and freedom, the other is about finding a reason to wage war, something that's been done since Roman times. One robbed people of choice, the other was just political BS that goes on everywhere.
    Controlling the populace through control of information has been going on just as long false flags and they are definitely similar. They both deceive in an attempt to control. They both take away from democracy and freedom when people make decisions based on the false information they are given.

  14. #34
    Deleted
    No it doesn't at all. Any chinese who wants to access something will be able to circumvent their swiss cheese wall. It's only North Korea who literally monitors every single citizen's internet traffic, and that's only possible because only a very limited number of people have access.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Few Chinese know about Tiananmen Man
    Many Earthians know about Florida Man.

  15. #35
    People work harder when there is a gun point at them.
    US companies agree, and outsource all jobs to China.

    Capitalism works best when the country has very little human rights.

  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    People work harder when there is a gun point at them.
    US companies agree, and outsource all jobs to China.

    Capitalism works best when the country has very little human rights.
    No that's how to create a failed state.

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rurts View Post
    And what would you censor?
    lots of stuff is censored in the west. child porn to name an obvious example, but if you dig a bit you can probably find a list of not-so-obvious things banned in your country. Many countries have a banned book list, obvious example often mein kampf. Germany censors gore in games. A bunch of countries have a list of banned games. etc.

    Most if it you will find reasonable, some of it you will find stupid. A mindset that the Chinese by and large share.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakloh View Post
    They have internet in Africa? LUL
    Yes, there is internet there. Does that trouble you so much you must laugh at it?

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Teflonsavior View Post
    Yes, there is internet there. Does that trouble you so much you must laugh at it?
    Last i checked internet isn't very widespread yet though. But they do a lot of shit with SMS wire transfers.

  20. #40
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Him of Many Faces View Post
    lots of stuff is censored in the west. child porn to name an obvious example, but if you dig a bit you can probably find a list of not-so-obvious things banned in your country. Many countries have a banned book list, obvious example often mein kampf. Germany censors gore in games. A bunch of countries have a list of banned games. etc.

    Most if it you will find reasonable, some of it you will find stupid. A mindset that the Chinese by and large share.
    Sure enough, but DeR seemed to propose censoring more. I wonder what might that be.

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