Diversity isnt a bad thing, but...

[CaptainV]

Because people prefer stuff that is 'close' to them.
It's why most protagonists are white males, because the target audience can relate to that.
It's why most people I know didn't give a shit about AC3; they couldn't relate to the story.
Gaming is often a form of escapism, playing in a make-belief world where for a moment you are someone else.

Please do not misunderstand what I said!
I did not say that women always need a female protagonist.
And black people don't always need a black hero and I don't need a white male champion.
But if you look at the entire audience, a protagonist that identifies with the target audience will just sell better because people prefer it.


Wouldn't you agree that many, many people act as if it's pushed in their face even when it isn't?
Black Stormtrooper comes to mind

Let me be clear where I stand on that point:

I totally dont mind that theres a black stormtrooper, a female lead, I dont mind that theres divercity in media, what I am saying is, not everyone wants that, I myself, dont mind it.

Now rather than comming across as a cop-out nonchallent I will say this in where I stand firmly:

Lets say someone decided to make another King Arthur movie, except this time, Arthur is black and female.

This is where I have a problem, see, in an established mythos, universe, or lore, id rather that people kept respect for the current tradition, than change it to convinence a "modern" era.

On the other hand, if this was about a neo futuristic world where Arthur was a black woman and its a refference to the old medieval white male Arthur of old, I wouldnt mind it at all.

I feel like some people feel alot of these "changes" are pushing to overlap previous things already there, like the Ghostbusters movie, which is a real can of worms. An all female ghostbusters cast might seem like a diverse choice, but Ghostbusters was an already established franchise with a defined set of characters, dont fix what isnt broken.

Now I have "NOTHING" against a film writer making something INSPIRED by Ghostbusters with an all female cast and making THAT its own thing, you see?

So, I will say this, I am slightly biased mostly because I can see why people "might" get upset about things, but in my case, the only reason I would ever feel a shred of care, is if something I cared about was being changed to convinence a social agenda and it "downright" forced it in your face.

E.g.

Guild Wars 1 vs Guild Wars 2.

GW1 is a fantasy world, where fantasy races fight against fantasy evils, and defeat them together (mostly a human cast, with a mix of colourful characters literally speaking).

GW2 however decided to flip the switch on its predacessor and went down a route of trying to "represent" everyone, from transgender to lesbian to gay to black/white whatever.

The question is...

Was that actually "necessary"?

No, not really, it didnt matter if you added it or not, but likewise, there was no real "need" to put it there.

Now you see on the danger of getting shot at again I am simply saying, representation is fine when its being made as its own thing, but when its being made to overlap something already there, then I can understand people feeling upset about it.

Would you want a film where Hitler was a Black Female killing all the Whites? (Sure it sounds like a great twist on the moral message but theres some things you just dont do).

Either way, thats 'exactly' where I stand, Overwatch itself is a new ground franchise with its own fresh perspective, so I dont see any reason to feel bad that its adding diverce things and focusing on that divercity since in many ways its what defines the game as most of the chars (omnics exempt) are human and thus race, sex and sexual prefference/gender is going to be a thing.

[ChampionChains]

The first time I saw Lucio, I was like "oh shit, they really gave the black guy speakers for weapons!? Why didn't they just take it one step further and let him lob 40oz malt liquor bottles at the enemy".

[Jessicka]

It's set in a future where we're supposedly past all this. The diversity is a representation of that globalised world.

[Slant]

I'll play Overwatch. Overwatch was fun. I'm going to play it a lot with my guild before Legion. But it is very symptomatic of everything wrong with Video Gaming in 2016. A bunch of people wanting to introduce a bunch of out of context crap. In the end, black, white, gay, straight, we're all red inside.*

Rest assured that most Overwatch players think the same. It's the pseudo gamers that come up with these weird topics. Everyone serious about his hobby of gaming will just play the game. :P

[Mormolyce]

It's set in a future where we're supposedly past all this. The diversity is a representation of that globalised world.

Yeah we moved on to being prejudiced against robots :P

[Jessicka]

Rest assured that most Overwatch players think the same. It's the pseudo gamers that come up with these weird topics. Everyone serious about his hobby of gaming will just play the game. :P

I dunno, I think the reason that in 2016 people think it's weird and people notice it; that this thread exists, is the reason it needs to be done. This kind of thing has been "forced" since Shadowrun in the 80s, and yet, it's still "weird" and "forced", and you have to set it hundreds of years in the future to make it "normal".

[derpkitteh]

it falls onto one thing : does it fit?

I'm from middle east, so before someone accuses me of being a privileged white male I wanted to make that clear. I like diversity when it "fits" and doesn't feel forced.

Dragon Age ruined it for me because at first it tried to portray a semi-George Martin setting in which Ferelden : a country with established characteristics of england (supposedly) gets attacked by evil forces bla bla bla. now Fereldens and in general the human nations of Thedas have their own cultural and ethical characteristics. It's a big negative point for me if for example the status of women suddently gets elevated in DA:I (compared to Origins) or people of color suddently show up out of nowhere in the story to the point that you start to feel the story is being "changed" for the sake of diversity and to please pro-pc people.

It's not that I'm a misogynist or a racist, it's just that to me, a game (or a story) HAS to stay true to it's principles and established lore as much as it can. that's a big plus for me.

I'm ok with the ME setting for example because it's about the future, and most of our struggles are addressed in that setting. the game however, tries to do the same pro-pc shit that they repeated in previous games by taking away the "human supremacist" path that shepard could take in ME1 and (to a very limited degree) in ME2 and turn it into something else in order to diffuse any sort of unwanted interpretation.

Now, back to Overwatch, I think diversity really fits this game because the established lore of the game and it's general theme is about the "ex-agents of a global peace-keeping force" (and unlike what usual hollywood action hero movies try to pretend, "world" does not mean "new york") and thus I think it's really nice to see that illustrated in the game by having heroes of different backgrounds, be it nationality, gender, sexual preference or other stuff.

hold up, how was the role of ferelden women changed from origins to inquisition? women were fighters in origins as well, they just were usually not seen as equal to male fighters. there's nothing said in inquisition or da2 about their role or any prejudice they face.

elves are still treated like shit by most humans, qunari are looked at as liars and demons sent to subvert the maker's will. it's still pretty much exactly the same.

[Jessicka]

Yeah we moved on to being prejudiced against robots :P

There always has to be an "other" to lay the blame on...

[Slant]

I dunno, I think the reason that in 2016 people think it's weird and people notice it; that this thread exists, is the reason it needs to be done. This kind of thing has been "forced" since Shadowrun in the 80s, and yet, it's still "weird" and "forced", and you have to set it hundreds of years in the future to make it "normal".

What? Play the game instead of talking about it, goddammit. The amount of thought you have put into this already surpassed the amount of thought I put into which shirt I'm wearing today. Which is entirely too much, if that isn't clear.

[Mormolyce]

There always has to be an "other" to lay the blame on...

So you're saying... we should... let it go?

[Mellrod]

I think something important to keep in mind with this game, is that in it's story, Overwatch is a global organization with heroes, adventurers, scientists, and oddities from pretty much every part of the world. Diversity is very much a part of the story and not just to be PC, or to appease some demographic.

[Jessicka]

What? Play the game instead of talking about it, goddammit. The amount of thought you have put into this already surpassed the amount of thought I put into which shirt I'm wearing today. Which is entirely too much, if that isn't clear.

I would love to play the game, but I'm at work Come ~6pm though once I've made my paella...

I wasn't the first person to think about it, I noticed it, thought 'that's cool, shame this is going to be a big deal'. Some weeks later on here, it's apparently a big deal and we shouldn't have diversity shoved down our throats :S

So you're saying... we should... let it go?

Turn away and slam the door.

[Mellrod]

I totally cringed hard the first time I saw Lucio, same with D.VA. Was pretty typical to have a black DJ dude along with a little korean girl who has to be obsessed with games

Really? I didn't think there was anything wrong with Lucio, he's just a Brazilian DJ, so what? His story is cool. It'd be stereotypical if they had him blasting rap music and talking or appearing in a very exaggerated manner. As for D.VA, I didn't know being a korean videogame streamer was a stereotype. I think it's cool that being an internet celebrity is part of her backstory.

[Slant]

I would love to play the game, but I'm at work Come ~6pm though once I've made my paella...

I wasn't the first person to think about it, I noticed it, thought 'that's cool, shame this is going to be a big deal'. Some weeks later on here, it's apparently a big deal and we shouldn't have diversity shoved down our throats :S


Turn away and slam the door.

Yeah, girl.. just ignore this shit. Or have fun with it like I do. But whatever you do, don't take it seriously. These guys have no weight whatsoever. Don't give them more credit than they deserve. They're clowns, that's all. Just a bunch of bored fucks picking any controversy they can find to spice up their posts, because otherwise nobody would ever bother acknowledging their existance.

[Skroe]

Really? I didn't think there was anything wrong with Lucio, he's just a Brazilian DJ, so what? His story is cool. It'd be stereotypical if they had him blasting rap music and talking or appearing in a very exaggerated manner. As for D.VA, I didn't know being a korean videogame streamer was a stereotype. I think it's cool that being an internet celebrity is part of her backstory.

Consider the short hand names.



Add "Fatass" (Roadhog), "Monkey" (Winston), "Lesbian" (Zarya), "Pink Robot Bitch" (D.Va), "The Motherfucking Eskimo cunt who just froze me" (Mei) and "Dancing Black Dude" (Lucio) to the list.

Some of Overwatch's characters have as much imagination as that time Blizzard randomly turn Tyrael into a black guy because the needed to unlike the "Impliment the Magic Negro Trope" Game Development achievement.

So much of overwatch is a walking steroeotype, which makes it painfully ironic people try to identify with the characters and what passes for "lore" (for the love of god, just read Kingdom Come).

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, girl.. just ignore this shit. Or have fun with it like I do. But whatever you do, don't take it seriously. These guys have no weight whatsoever. Don't give them more credit than they deserve. They're clowns, that's all. Just a bunch of bored fucks picking any controversy they can find to spice up their posts, because otherwise nobody would ever bother acknowledging their existance.

100% this.

The last time I "identified" with a game was when I was 10 and named all the characters in Chrono Trigger after my class mates. I decided almost immediately it was really fucking creepy and restarted.

[Mehrunes]

what a load of hyperbole. Please dont over extend one point to an extreme to support a ridiculous argument.

its not "because he's not YOU", or its "a variety of characters with different traits, each of which apply to different people in some way"

People keep using hyperbole in this arguement against something that is moderate and chill... not extreme.

And yet, your entire first post in this thread is a giant hyperbole.

Sociopaths are defined by an inability to relate to most people or "characters" whether the avenues of relation exist or not. An inability to relate to a character that lacks anything to for that person to relate to or is a stale clone is an entirely different situation.

Except a character that doesn't share your gender or skin color doesn't "lack anything for a person to relate to", nor does it make it a "stale clone".

Your second statement is especially cringeworthy. Please dont swing your pseudo-academic schlong around by taking actual psychology out of context and out of its intended intepretation.

Games are often a help to escape reality. I couldn't really escape reality if I had to be a big African woman.

Which says more about you than it does about the industry.

You're correct.
Millions other white men don't see an issue either.
But all hell breaks loose when a black guy plays the hero in Star Wars.

Maybe they're just like you and can't escape reality because of that?

Gaming is often a form of escapism, playing in a make-belief world where for a moment you are someone else.

Which in theory should make this whole thing a nonissue.

[Jessicka]

100% this.

The last time I "identified" with a game was when I was 10 and named all the characters in Chrono Trigger after my class mates. I decided almost immediately it was really fucking creepy and restarted.

They're very clearly taking a direction where it's a story/character driven franchise that's going to have a lot of external content, merchandise, books, comics etc. That pretty much necessitates the diversity anyway; a story of 21 brown haired mid-20s white American males doesn't offer a huge amount of room or depth to plumb in respect to building that 'world'.

Could some of those characters be better? Absolutely. Is the game new and lacking a lot of context at this point? Also very much so. Over time, that's going to change.

[Deleted]

Okay, lets start by being civil on this topic, since the last one ended in a fire blazing itself into oblivion, lets start with this:

I am a white male straight player, I happen to be disabled with aspergers, and I also happen to be a pretty intimite gamer who likes to play some pretty challenging games, as long as they dont revolve around a tedious grind.

The only thing you seem to be disabled by is the total lack of ability to spell anything correctly. If you want a discussion about diversity, how about check dictionary before making a thread where even the title looks like something it was typed by a toddler?

[Mormolyce]

I totally cringed hard the first time I saw Lucio, same with D.VA. Was pretty typical to have a black DJ dude along with a little korean girl who has to be obsessed with games

Not to mention the monkey from the moon who's good at science. Stereotype much!!??

[tankbug]

Why do I bring this up? Because it is about what games should be. The fucking game. Case in point, Doom is about the good old fashioned Ultra-Violence. It has it, and plenty of it

Well, some people want to control a character and face characters with a little background story, where not everyone is just a generic soldier like in standard shooters. Sometimes you can have both. Team fortress 2 is an ultraviolent game, but with diverse, interesting characters as well.