No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[TyrianFC]

I'm so glad you are here to tell us clueless scrubs what we do and do not want.
How would we ever enjoy the game without people like you telling us how to do it properly...

Thankyou. It's quite simple actually: Most players don't know shit about what makes a good game - and need someone to tell them what's what. You don't make a good sandbox on the ground just so you can fly over it... amiright kids?

[caervek]

There are way more reasons for the non existing communites but flying is ONE of them.

If that were true then the communities would have started dying in TBC not later.

[rda]

As i said, CRZ and dumbass lottery has also to be removed to create server communities again. Also garrisons, loot by 2 clicks ...
There are way more reasons for the non existing communites but flying is ONE of them.

As I said, wake me up when all the stars align for you and we will have these wonderful communities that you want.

Seriously, suppose you are even right and flying harms communities (you are wrong, but whatever, suppose you aren't). There are other things that you mention that make these communities impossible, OK, great. Do you think they are going to remove them? Like, for real, do you think they are going to remove CRZs? LFG / LFR? Obviously not. If you think they are, I have a bridge to sell you. So, what's the point of removing flying then? Right. No point.

[Deleted]

well a big map means longer travel times on ground really, and everything is more spread out, making it feel less alive

But it's what you have in a realistic world! You have vast open spaces etc.

By reducing the available space you probably reduce travel time (if you can travel in a straight line, which almost never happens), but you also kill any feeling of a true world and only get a theme park instead.

If you need everything to be crammed with things so tightly that you cannot move to have the feeling of "alive", then you really have a problem. Real world don't work like that, only cities do.

[Idoru]

Thankyou. It's quite simple actually: Most players don't know shit about what makes a good game - and need someone to tell them what's what. You don't make a good sandbox on the ground just so you can fly over it... amiright kids?

Oh you mean flying while leveling. Yeah, (almost) no one is asking for that.

[Deleted]

As i said, CRZ and dumbass lottery has also to be removed to create server communities again. Also garrisons, loot by 2 clicks ...
There are way more reasons for the non existing communites but flying is ONE of them.

You might have a point here. But flying has nothing to do with communities dying. In fact, you can use flying in a very social way. I can much easier help a new guildie level up if I just can fly staight to his location instead of doing all the stupid flightpaths over and over, and then possibly ride an annoying way for what?

World PvP is not harmed by flying. TBC had plenty of this, not only on the isle.

I currenty got 3 new players in my guild. They are very glad each time they unlock flying for an area, so they can level faster. And while flying while leveling the latests expansion content is not that important, it's very good to have after finishing such content. This is accomplished by explorer + loremaster achievements. Nothing more is needed to show that you have done everything on the ground.

[SirCowdog]

BUT (to get back to topic) flying destroys the server community

What proof do you have to back up this claim? HOW exactly does flying supposedly hurt communities?

(as all the LFx tools and even more CRZ also do)

THIS is what's really damaging the community. There is no more 'server' community at all because of these tools. Queues that link any random player from a server group without any form of reputation or responsibility after you leave the group or LFR do more harm to the community than someone who's actually out in the world doing things by flying to objectives. CRZ and heavy use of phasing also contributes to the lack of server identity and community. And this doesn't even take into account the ability to transfer servers, change race, class, faction, and name.

People keep trying to throw up flight as a scapegoat for all the problems caused by other mechanics of the game and design because it's easier than actually thinking and being critical about the game's other aspects. If flight even has ANY impact on community at all, it's maybe 1% of the problem, but being held responsible for 90% of it because people can't get off the bandwagon.

As a classic player i miss these parts of the game a lot, especially the community.

As a PvP Player (Rank 14) in vanilla, i knew a lot of players on my server on both sides and i would love to get this feeling back. But with CRZ and no flying, this will never happen, as you always stumble over totally unknown players IF you go out in the world once in a while and THEN be lucky to see someone else.

The problem is that you simply can not re-create nostalgia. Even if vanilla servers were released today, the community and the players are nearly 12 years older than they were back then. People have changed in the way that they approach the game, and what they expect from it. Trying to re-create that community and nostalgia by taking away a form of travel, which isn't even responsible for the loss in the first place, is just doomed to failure.

No, classic was not perfect, but not everything was bad. There are things that was way better than nowadays and not flying was definitly one of these better things.

In fact, flying was SOOOOO bad they kept it in the game for 8 years. Riiiiiight.....

[glowpipe]

Just as a point of interest: Did you ever do the original unlock of flight form for Druids?

I think i did on my alt. It was ages ago and had something to do with a small island outisde of terrokar forrest didnt it ? (and a lot of other crap)

[SirCowdog]

People only 'care' about flying because, at the moment, they're just bored with the game and have nothing else to complain about. I'm not going to reexplain this.

Then why did people start giving feedback to Blizzard back before the WoD beta when the first rumors of no-fly started? People have been telling blizzard that attempting to remove flight is a terrible idea for TWO YEARS! This isn't some passing fad that people are getting worked up about because they're bored. It's a concerted effort by invested and dedicated fans trying to let Blizzard know that they are screwing up the game. It's not a vocal minority. It's not entitled kids crying because their toys were taken away. It's long-time fans with a love for the game.

[TyrianFC]

This isn't some passing fad that people are getting worked up about because they're bored

Thank you for summing up exactly what 'the flying debate' actually is.

In ~3 months upon release, nobody will care again.

[DDM]

I can just quote myself again: Flying alone is not the only reason for the current state of WoW but it is one of them. In TBC there was still world PvP -> yes, because players were still used to it. But by introducing flying, more and more players had a way to ignore this part of the game.

Even Blizz doesn't like flying but there are always some crybabies which fill up the pockets of Blizz and so they introduced it again. Everything has to be more and more easy. No one wants to put in some effort or time and the result is dumbass lottery, legendarys from normal mobs, everybody needs to have purple gear ...
Cry, cry, cry ... and then a lot moan about lack of content, everything is explored in a few days/weeks ...
This is just ridiculous.

So remove flying, remove CRZ, remove drops from dumbass lottery (you can still see the content for what LFR is supposed to and don't need blingbling shiny purple drops) ... all step by step as it was introduced. Flying was the first that was implemented, so why not remove it (for the current expansion) as the first one.

And if you want to get something, then do something for it. And don't come up now with the "argument" i pay for it so i also want the same like everybody. I also pay for the same, so you do have the same point of start as i have and you can reach the same or even better based on everybodys own skill and time. And if it costs you to much time to travel by ground mount then it is your own problem because you don't want/can put in as much time as someone else.

But like it is always with crybabies ... you can't talk with them. I'm out of here.

[rda]

So remove flying, remove CRZ, remove drops from dumbass lottery (you can still see the content for what LFR is supposed to and don't need blingbling shiny purple drops) ... all step by step as it was introduced. Flying was the first that was implemented, so why not remove it (for the current expansion) as the first one.

What, you think that removing flying is part of some grand plan and that they are going to remove CRZ, and "drops from dumbass lottery", and everything else on your list? You are smoking something real good.

[Maudib]

I think its cool you wont feel that the zones are small if you actually have to walk/ride on a mount throught them

I 100% agree! Which is why only flying after max level has ALWAYS worked. After that though... there is NO reason to keep players grounded. None.

[SirCowdog]

Thank you for summing up exactly what 'the flying debate' actually is.

In ~3 months upon release, nobody will care again.

And a month or two after launch when the reality of how tedious the open world is finally sinks in, subs will plummet again. Unless Blizz releases 7.1 at that point with flight, you WILL start to feel it as the population drops. Queue times will go up across the board, zones will start to feel empty as people just stop dealing with it.

But hey, whatever floats your boat. If you want to delude yourself into thinking this is something you can dismiss, I can't really stop you from ignoring reality.

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I can just quote myself again: Flying alone is not the only reason for the current state of WoW but it is one of them. In TBC there was still world PvP -> yes, because players were still used to it. But by introducing flying, more and more players had a way to ignore this part of the game.

No, you're actually VERY wrong on this. OWPVP was killed by heavy use of instanced PVP and rewards for BGs and arenas which far outclassed anything you could get from random HKs in the world. People gave up on PVP in the open world because it simply wasn't worth it. The fights in BGs and Arena were more fair, gave better rewards, and was on-demand. Unlike world pvp which was random as hell, completely unfair, and often a massive waste of time unless you were lucky enough to get a Southshore/Hillsbrad war going. And that was intermittent at best.

Again, you're trying to re-create nostalgia. The only way OWPVP will ever become a huge thing again is if Blizzard creates interesting objectives and rewards that match or surpass what's available through BGs and Arena. And if they did pull it off, flying wouldn't have much impact. People would fly in and fight until they had their fill, then fly away. Hell, Blizzard could even have vehicles, turrets, or temporary abilities to help knock people out of the air if it was really THAT important.

Even Blizz doesn't like flying

Actually, according to Blizzard themselves, the devs were split pretty evenly on flying vs no-flying. And that also doesn't account for flight being part of WoW for EIGHT YEARS. This theory that Blizzard doesn't like flying is not accurate. It's only recently that they pushed the idea in order to support the experiment with WoD, which appears to have failed miserably considering they re-instated flight only two weeks after announcing it would be gone forever(mostly due to backlash from the community).

but there are always some crybabies which...

If you have to resort to namecalling and blatant insults to people who have a different opinion than you, it's a sure sign that your arguments don't actually have any real value. Please stay on topic.

And if it costs you to much time to travel by ground mount then it is your own problem because you don't want/can put in as much time as someone else.

Do you really believe this is about not wanting to put in effort? If you actually read to understand the points being made, you'll see that many pro-flight people actually like the idea of flight being difficult and/or time consuming to unlock. What we don't like is being lied to about when it will be available, or having to unlock it without there being anything significant to use it on, or having to do a laundry list of uninteresting tasks that have nothing to do with flight.

But you'd rather keep using flight as a scapegoat for every problem with wow, because it's easier than actually being critical of the game and disagreeing with Blizzard.

[Deleted]

Thank you for summing up exactly what 'the flying debate' actually is.

In ~3 months upon release, nobody will care again.

You are wrong. This topic is in constant discussion since no-flying came up before WoD.

[TyrianFC]

You are wrong. This topic is in constant discussion since no-flying came up before WoD.

You mean.... during the same dead period cycle of the MoP expansion (late SoO until WoD release)? Geee.. how mysterious.... I wonder why.... Could there even be a pattern... of people only 'caring' when bored shitless of the same content for 12 months? I wonder.

Check the top 10 contributors post-count in this thread (and the old one) and it'll enlighten you. Thats why we say this thread is just a small handful of pro-flying clowns cluelessly going round in circles circle-jerking with the other 10 pro-flyers, and arguing with everyone else who pops in with 1-2 posts to say they prefer no-flying.

[Maudib]

No, they aren't. Flying however, is.

Do expand upon this statement... as I simply do not see it the same way. Flying increases my immersion... draws me out to explore... and follows the fantasy of my character having earned the mounts and ability to fly.

[TyrianFC]

Do expand upon this statement... as I simply do not see it the same way. Flying increases my immersion... draws me out to explore... and follows the fantasy of my character having earned the mounts and ability to fly.

Sure - its quite simple - but in essence: You don't know what you want, nor whats good for you or the game. Its not something to feel bad or ashamed about, but its the reason Blizzard is the game developer here and you are not. A lot of players are like this.

[quras]

SNIP.... You don't make a good sandbox on the ground just so you can fly over it... amiright kids?

No, but when you make a themepark game such as this and by this I mean WOW and every expansion it ever had.

You get gamers to the rides ASAP. You don't need the long wait times to interesting things. AKA ground travel only past max level.

Let gamers get to the more interesting things sooner rather than later. If blizzard wants to kill more gamers time it doesn't need to be done in making travel as terrible as ground only when you have seen and explored those areas while leveling. Come max level it's time to Disney fast pass their asses to more entertaining things. If blizzard wants to add mroe time eating things, make the quests longer, more challenging and more steps. If gamers are doing those quests at all, it would be much more entertaining than spending 7 mins getting to a quests only to clear it in 3mins and be done. Get the gamers there quickly by leting them fly at max level and have a longer, more involved quest waiting.

This is a theme park game and like all good theme parks. They do their best to get people on the rides faster, not make the waiting longer as ground travel does.

[Deleted]

Sure - its quite simple - but in essence: You don't know what you want, nor whats good for you or the game. Its not something to feel bad or ashamed about, but its the reason Blizzard is the game developer here and you are not. A lot of players are like this.

So you can read my mind? I demand that you shall dress like a little girl and wear pink slippers, you should like it, I know what's best for you!

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No, but when you make a themepark game such as this and by this I mean WOW and every expansion it ever had.

You get gamers to the rides ASAP. You don't need the long wait times to interesting things. AKA ground travel only past max level.

Let gamers get to the more interesting things sooner rather than later. If blizzard wants to kill more gamers time it doesn't need to be done in making travel as terrible as ground only when you have seen and explored those areas while leveling. Come max level it's time to Disney fast pass their asses to more entertaining things. If blizzard wants to add mroe time eating things, make the quests longer, more challenging and more steps. If gamers are doing those quests at all, it would be much more entertaining than spending 7 mins getting to a quests only to clear it in 3mins and be done. Get the gamers there quickly by leting them fly at max level and have a longer, more involved quest waiting.

This is a theme park game and like all good theme parks. They do their best to get people on the rides faster, not make the waiting longer as ground travel does.

We should be spending more time with questing and farming or whatever, than with travelling. Blizzard seems to want us to waste time with travelling, though.

Let me tell you one simple thing: If people expect something interesting happen on the way, they will walk the way and look out for such things. This will happen on land mounts just as likely as on flying ones. This will not happen on flight taxis though, because you cannot interrupt your travel. Thus, flight paths as they are implemented in WoW are inferior to any other transportation method. If we would have instant teleportation to portals like in GW2, I would probably be OK with flying at the end of the expansion. But as long as we have flight paths, I will hate being grounded.

The other reason I hate no flight is the horrible terrain in WoD. No other expansion has been that disgusting. This is my fondest though about Vanilla - wonderful areas where you just could ride on. Yes, there have been some forests and some mountain areas where you have had some labyrinthic structures. But most areas were straight forward. And they were not so heavily packed with mobs, except some quest hubs where you expected such things.

People don't use flying because they want to minimise interaction with the world. They use flying to get to the interesting things faster. But if there is enough incentive to stay on the ground, they will. And in any case, with questing you have to stay on the ground - because you cannot kill anything riding a flying mount. If you want me to kill 15 henchmen of a lieutenant, in addition to him, then just pack this into the quest requirement and I will do it. If you want me to clear an area of every enemy, then demand exactly this in the quest text. Problem solved.