Blizzard finally pulls the plug on welfare pvp gear.

[Lethora]

Most people in this thread don't realize how insignificant is 10% stats difference. It's the same as difference between 710 and 720 gear now. (i.e. having 22% crit instead of 20%) Skilled player will always win in this kind of scenario. Also, those 10% are the difference between freshly-dinged 110 and the one in full pvp gear. So, the real gear gap between pvp participants will be even less, around 1-5%.
In pve, we will still have massive gear differences, because 100 ilvl disparity will still provide 100% more stats. Otherwise, mythic raids will be cleared in dungeon blues by top raiders.
People need to realize that there is different scaling for instanced pvp and pve now. One is using templates with adjusted power and the other is using actual stats found on equipped gear.

[Deleted]

Guess i should go around making garbage posts like "the salt is real" just to increase my post count then

You dont have to. This one suffices just fine as a garbage post my little friend

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It happened in WotLK (arena participation did drop substantially when most gear requires a rating). We are not incompetent and stop treating us as such. Thanks.

Who is we exactly?

[Mafic]

You dont have to. This one suffices just fine as a garbage post my little friend

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Who is we exactly?

PVP players.

[Deleted]

Well, if it doesn't feel rewarding anymore to PvP I wonder if many people will stay play it.

It's not like the gameplay aspects of WoW's PvP are that fun. Especially not without incentive.

[Nakotsu]

No more free epics by doing only PvP anymore. Casual/Bad players like me that PvP only are basically doomed to blues from random boxes (that supposedly are worse than LFR gear) or actually forcing ourselves to Raid (I'm never going to Raid).

I understand why Blizzard is doing this. They've had a longtime struggle with PvP gear basically overlapping the vast majority of PvE content by being stronger than all entry level PvE gear. Ever since Cataclysm when they removed rating restrictions on gear, PvP gear became too easy to obtain and its power level was too powerful for how easy it was to get.

When they added the catchup mechanic in MoP, getting PvP gear was basically the optimal path for entry level PvE progression. Why do dungeons/LFR/Flex/normal when you can just tank mmr in 2's and farm bads until you have full conquest gear and jump straight into heroics?

That was the real issue with PvP gear and with WoD blizzard tried to alleviate this by making PvP gear item level lower than normal outside of PvP. Yet, the problem still remained, honor gear was still easy to obtain and better than anything from entry level PvE content. It was just faster to farm Ashran artifacts than it was to spend weeks farming Tanaan Jungle/LFR/Apexis crystals. This is a design flaw that Blizzard has known about for years but hasn't done anything about it until Legion.

So yeah people like me are doomed to PvE to get better gear. They want everyone not pushing rating in PvP to do Raiding. This is simply a ploy to push participation numbers for Raiding and PvE in general, there's zero equality in gear Legion despite what they claim. And this isn't even mentioning how artifact weapon grinding is based on PvE which still applies in PvP.

Even high rated PvP players I still think will be conned to do Raiding. We all know how powerful PvE trinkets are and I really don't think any PvP trinket from a lockbox is going to compete with how overpowered they make PvE trinkets. Some classes might get away with not having to do PvE, but the classes that depend on ridiculous damage (Warriors,DK's) to be viable will.

Whatever though. I'm not mad, just shocked that the free gear all these years has finally come to an end. And I'll admit it that I took advantage and depended on this design flaw.

Obviously you don't read very well blizzard will be giving AWAY for the first TWO BG's A day 1 free PVP gear item each BG. So you get 2 FREE Pieces of PVP gear a day.

[meathead]

Most people in this thread don't realize how insignificant is 10% stats difference. It's the same as difference between 710 and 720 gear now. (i.e. having 22% crit instead of 20%) Skilled player will always win in this kind of scenario. Also, those 10% are the difference between freshly-dinged 110 and the one in full pvp gear. So, the real gear gap between pvp participants will be even less, around 1-5%.
In pve, we will still have massive gear differences, because 100 ilvl disparity will still provide 100% more stats. Otherwise, mythic raids will be cleared in dungeon blues by top raiders.
People need to realize that there is different scaling for instanced pvp and pve now. One is using templates with adjusted power and the other is using actual stats found on equipped gear.

ok then why not give +10% better stats to pvpers in pvp gear?id 10% does not mean anything why not let pvp gear be stronger?thought so.

i said this before and i wil say it again- wow is copy rift 100% and thats sad becasue when rift did this ame thing its killed the last small pvp population it had left,same will happen in wow = dead game.

in rift you get rng gear after wining a bg = lmfao its weak and way behind raid gear.no matter what you do unless you raid your behind in gear/strength of gear. gera is boosted in bgs but even then raid gear is bis across the board,open world is no boosting and a raid gear player destroys a pvp player the gear gap is way to big.

the only players that like this change will be raiders "same in rift" balance will not be any better and all it does is make pvp/gearing more diffcult.this is wow throwing in the towel and trying to ge tthe last bit of $ out of wow before they start shutting parts of it down.down from 12 million to 5 and once this crap goes live it will be even less.

go to rifts forums and see/read for yourself,its sad your defending this change,why on earth do you think its cool to remove pvp progression is beyond me.
play and gear how you want for what you want has been wows thing for years taking that away drives players away and thats bad for the game.

[Unholyground]

The Legion changes to PvP are the best they have ever made imo, being able to use PvE gear in PvP is amazing. Also all the QQ'ers saying "oh noes I have to raid" clearly have not read that you can still get good gear through PvP'ing, the only ones this effects are the people who did the bare minimum to get their PvP gear in the first place, this does not effect dedicated PvP'ers.

[ElDoorO]

Well considering you couldn't get tier epic I don't see why it mattered in the first place.
Then again I like good challenges not e-z mode stomping people so...
I rather enjoy the 1450-1500 wins/losses because that means it was an intense game.

[Tikishock]

Where are all the Classic/Legacy Server nuts claiming this is a return to the glory days of Vanilla in which the most dominate gear in PvP was basically BWL Tier 2 and for a short time Naxx Tier 3?

A team full of PvE BWL raiders would wipe the floor against a PvP team in PvP Blues. Back then, in order to get PvP epics you had to grind the shit out of CP and the highest PvP rank--which let you buy a purple PvP weapon was given to ONE person on each faction per week.

[Noivern]

thank fucking god. time for you to learn how to play your class. simple as that, you suck at pve and pvp or one or the other. well time to learn how to actually play it so you can exceed at both, with how legion has done the pvp system, ill end my boycott of not pvping since bc when they added resilience to pvp and was the worst fucking decision ever. i quit pvp after that. now that welfare gear is gone, and its more skill based now. ill pvp again. i can not wait.

[Marhault]

Where are all the Classic/Legacy Server nuts claiming this is a return to the glory days of Vanilla in which the most dominate gear in PvP was basically BWL Tier 2 and for a short time Naxx Tier 3?

A team full of PvE BWL raiders would wipe the floor against a PvP team in PvP Blues. Back then, in order to get PvP epics you had to grind the shit out of CP and the highest PvP rank--which let you buy a purple PvP weapon was given to ONE person on each faction per week.

I remember the whining when people started getting tier 3. Mages could one shot a full Wrath warrior, let alone someone in PVP blues. Now there were some epics you could get (Unstoppable Force from Exalted AV), and the plus side was back then people were REALLY bad at PVP in general. But yeah, you couldn't compete with the PVE gear. Even the High Warlord/Grand Marshall gear was only on par with BWL gear I believe.


But on topic of the gear, I wouldn't put a full amount of faith into the gear that WoWHead has pulled just yet. They're not pulling the gear properly from HFC for example (Mythic is reporting the same ilvl as normal gear). It's possible that the gear pulled will be a higher level than it picked up. I'm hoping it's the case, I would rather see Mythic Gear and elite gear be the same ilvl.

[Krusza]

Ah, great. Another thread that spreads misinformation in the OP and no one will read the rest of it to clarify.

[Linri]

of course i will try out PvP in legion.. I wonder how this will affect twinks and lower level bracket players who are already best in slot

[rda]

Pvp participation does not fucking drop off because of gear. it DOES NOT.

PvP is not about getting gear its about the gameplay. If the gameplay isnt good, people dont play it.

Blizzard disagree with you.

I don't disagree, but if we accept that people come for gameplay, they should *remove* all gear from PVP and scale everyone to the same standard gear, and somehow I don't see you parading that idea.

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Most people in this thread don't realize how insignificant is 10% stats difference. It's the same as difference between 710 and 720 gear now. (i.e. having 22% crit instead of 20%) Skilled player will always win in this kind of scenario.

What???

"Most people in this thread don't realize how insignificant is 10% stats difference." - It is significant.

"Skilled player will always win in this kind of scenario." - No. I mean, if the difference is 1000 MMR, then maybe, but if it is 300 MMR, absolutely not.

Welcome to PVP, it looks like you are new to it.

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Obviously you don't read very well blizzard will be giving AWAY for the first TWO BG's A day 1 free PVP gear item each BG. So you get 2 FREE Pieces of PVP gear a day.

These pieces are on the level of heroics, nobody needs them two weeks into the addon.

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The Legion changes to PvP are the best they have ever made imo, being able to use PvE gear in PvP is amazing. Also all the QQ'ers saying "oh noes I have to raid" clearly have not read that you can still get good gear through PvP'ing, the only ones this effects are the people who did the bare minimum to get their PvP gear in the first place, this does not effect dedicated PvP'ers.

Damn, I am going to stop replying after this one, but the amount of idiocy just keeps growing.

That good gear from PVPing you are talking about is on the level of heroics. In order to get something on the level of LFR, you have to push rating. Pushing rating now involves you overcoming both supposedly greater skill *AND* greater gear - that's Legions' addition. And if you want gear on the level of even normal raids, you have to push hard - look at the ilvls.

Guess what's easier - push rating or AFK in LFR, then PUG normals? It's the latter, by a huge margin.

[Marhault]

Damn, I am going to stop replying after this one, but the amount of idiocy just keeps growing.

That good gear from PVPing you are talking about is on the level of heroics. In order to get something on the level of LFR, you have to push rating. Pushing rating now involves you overcoming both supposedly greater skill *AND* greater gear - that's Legions' addition. And if you want gear on the level of even normal raids, you have to push hard - look at the ilvls.

Guess what's easier - push rating or AFK in LFR, then PUG normals? It's the latter, by a huge margin.

At the start of the season you won't, as I'm assuming the season will start the same as WoD with the first raid and PVP season opening on the same day, LFR not opening till a week later. You are correct for midseason that it may be faster to get gear that way. However midseason you won't (Or shouldn't) be playing against the high level gear to be a 10% difference. Or if you are, they are likely PVE players who aren't all that good at PVP.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Is everyone neglecting the fact that 905 ilvl gear drops from the NightHold which will probably not even be out for 90% of the first pvp season?

[Mafic]

LFR gear being better than what you can probably obtain at 1800 rating is simply AIDS.

Period.

[Marrilaife]

I wonder how this will affect twinks and lower level bracket players who are already best in slot

Twinks will be dead. Blizzard already said xp locked characters will again play in the same queue as the non xp locked ones, but your stats will be predefined like in all pvp instances and roughly at the power of the heirlooms in corresponding bracket. No more op twinks. No more endless queue for xp locked characters. But the money you paid for your best in slot? Majorly wasted.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...45081478381568

[Unholyground]

At the start of the season you won't, as I'm assuming the season will start the same as WoD with the first raid and PVP season opening on the same day, LFR not opening till a week later. You are correct for midseason that it may be faster to get gear that way. However midseason you won't (Or shouldn't) be playing against the high level gear to be a 10% difference. Or if you are, they are likely PVE players who aren't all that good at PVP.

Not to mention in each season the PvP item level minimum gap will be adjusted as the PvE content grows making sure the entry for each season is fair.

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Twinks will be dead. Blizzard already said xp locked characters will again play in the same queue as the non xp locked ones, but your stats will be predefined like in all pvp instances and roughly at the power of the heirlooms in corresponding bracket. No more op twinks. No more endless queue for xp locked characters. But the money you paid for your best in slot? Majorly wasted.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...45081478381568

Enchants will be about the only useful thing.

[Deleted User Guy]

Whatever though. I'm not mad, just shocked that the free gear all these years has finally come to an end. And I'll admit it that I took advantage and depended on this design flaw.

It was bound to happen eventually, and I like the changes so far. It wont bug me that much, since my main gearing outlet this expansion is going to be crafting (they lifted the three piece requirement). Maybe I'll do Mythic dungeons as well. I wouldn't sweat it too much though. Gear wont be as important as it was prior, if all you do is PvP. The window is small, but if you have the additional talents unlocked, you'll have a better advantage over someone who doesn't.