Arthas,The Lich King vs Lei Shen ,The Thunder King

[Qualia]

The chronicle did't make Illidan stronger than once thought.

Probably meant Illidan book.

Doesn't matter, though, as the outcome of Illidan and Arthas (with LK empowerment, but before become LK) fight doesn't reflect their differences in strength anyway. Seeing both RoTLK and Illidan described that Illidan was having upperhand throughout the fight, and Arthas won only because the last strike managed to connect fatally when Illidan came in to deliver the last blow, Illidan'd have been the more powerful one when compared to that version of Arthas if not for plot. We don't know how much stronger Arthas was in his Lich King version compared to final LK empowered version, however.

[Alydael]

I believe the no-army restriction doesn't work well for Arthas since he does summon armies as one of his main fighting kits. Even during Lich King's encounter, he summons undead on almost all phases, ghouls, valkyries etc. So... dunno.

I agree, not so sure you can really consider the Lich King a one on one fight, since minions are such a part of his repetoire.

[Donald Hellscream]

Lei Shen at his prime would be able to defeat Arthas.

A lot of bosses in fact would have been able to defeat Arthas.

Bosses like Deathwing and Al'akir and Ragnaros would be able to defeat Arthas.

And those bosses bar Deathwing perhaps were all weaker than Lei Shen at his prime.

[Mekkle]

12,000 years ago Lei Shen would RUIN the Lich King.

[steelballfc]

A blade so powerful that its name is known to several high-ranking demons in the Burning Legion. I wouldn't presume to call it an easy win for the Lich King, but I think he'd eventually come out on top. Decay, unnatural frost and a blade of fearsome power - all in all it'd give him an edge in my books. It's all theoretical speculation though.

yet the same sword was crushed by a "light sword made by a dwarf"

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So a random undead dude created by demons against a powerful Mogu empowered with the remnants of Aman'Thul's power. Hmm. Though one.

And it's not even a Bulldog thread?

I start to think Bulldog had made more than one account

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The Thunder King has the powers of a titan. The Lich King has the powers of Kil'Jaeden. The Titans equipped their servants to handle Old Gods and Elemental Lords, while Kil'Jaeden equipped the Lich King to weaken its mortal inhabitants at the time of Warcraft 3.
Not to point out the obvious or anything, but isn't Lei Shen significantly larger physically then the Lich King? I could totally see Lei Shen just squashing Arthas.
The Lich King was defeated by Tirion Fordring at the height of his power, admittedly with a powerful blessing from the light. Lei Shen was nuked from orbit with a blast that turned a jungle into a desert.
I just can't see a situation where Arthas wins without an overwhelming army.

"Arthas is making deal with U.S for Nuclear weapons

[AwkwardSquirtle]

"Arthas is making deal with U.S for Nuclear weapons

Perhaps in exchange for Tanaan's oil sites?

[Al Gorefiend]

I believe the no-army restriction doesn't work well for Arthas since he does summon armies as one of his main fighting kits. Even during Lich King's encounter, he summons undead on almost all phases, ghouls, valkyries etc. So... dunno.

I agree. Arthas @ the peak of his power means the armies must be present. Without them Arthas wasn't enough of a threat to gain interest from the Horde or Alliance for ~15 years as he built the massive fortress of Icecrown. It was only when he amassed his army and attacked Stormwind and Org that we realized he was a danger.

So yes, Lei Shen vs Arthas no army = an easy Lei Shen victory. Both armies present = an easy win for Arthas. His whole "1 shot the raid" thingy was forced lore to make the LK not look like a chump. Blizzard could write any character as 1 shotting the raid.

[Rathbourne]

I start to think Bulldog had made more than one account.

Im not fucking Bulldog !! If you see my original post i personally think Lei Shen would win.

[Deleted]

Sure, Lei Shen had the power of Ra-den, storms. But still I see only mark of his true power in fighting Xuen, and then again Xuen is never praised to be that strong, even though he is the spiritual form of strength. I'd go with the Lich King, given that he has Frostmourne which is arguably one of the strongest weapons in warcraft. Lei Shen ruled more with the thunder crackling in the battlefield when his armies were fighting.

Frostmourne is not arguably one of the strongest weapons in warcraft. The power difference between it and Gorshalach(http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Gorshalach) is massive.

No contest

[Zoldor]

After reading Chronicle, going to side with Lei Shen in his prime. Again, took the Titan Doomsday weapon in Uldum to kill him.

He was on course to pretty much enslave all of Kalimdor at the time, which was a time when it was mostly run by Titan Constructs, Trolls, Night Elves at their peaks. Lei Shen took the power that Ra-Den had when created + the Power Ra-Den received as Aman'Thul died. Lei Shen also killed Ra-Den without those powers. I love Arthas, but with the knowledge we now have I have to side with Lei Shen.

Lei Shen might go down as one of or the most powerful being to walk Azeroth that wasn't a Titan or a full blown keeper (even then he might have been stronger than some of the keepers based on who's power he stole Aman'Thul second most powerful titan behind Sarg and Ra-Den considered to be the second most powerful Keeper as well behind Tyr or Odyn it gets wonky on powerlevels with the Ulduar keepers. It took more of them to be jailers of Yogg and Northrend when Ra basically ruled all of Pandaria and the south mostly alone.)

To the "there must always be a lich king" statement. If we take Lei Shen at his height he would have been immortal, the doomsday weapon destroyed all those who knew how to res him, as he only told the Top Trolls, because he didn't want the mogu in charge of it and they got destroyed with him. So technically he's as immortal as the Lich King.

I dislike Lei Shen, but I have to succumb to the fact that the dude was a boss.

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So yes, Lei Shen vs Arthas no army = an easy Lei Shen victory. Both armies present = an easy win for Arthas. His whole "1 shot the raid" thingy was forced lore to make the LK not look like a chump. Blizzard could write any character as 1 shotting the raid.

Ehh, even with an Army Lei Shen would probably destroy Arthas. Remember Lei Shen also controlled the most powerful army of the age, he wasn't just some single handed walking badass. He controlled a Mogu army and was in agreement with the entire Zandalar army for power and control. The dude's army is equally as important in his power level.

[Amaterasu65]

Ehh, even with an Army Lei Shen would probably destroy Arthas. Remember Lei Shen also controlled the most powerful army of the age, he wasn't just some single handed walking badass. He controlled a Mogu army and was in agreement with the entire Zandalar army for power and control. The dude's army is equally as important in his power level.

Could be the case but you may also consider that Arthas can raise fallen enemies, which works really well for LK.

[steelballfc]

Perhaps in exchange for Tanaan's oil sites?

Conspiracy
i knew it

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I agree. Arthas @ the peak of his power means the armies must be present. Without them Arthas wasn't enough of a threat to gain interest from the Horde or Alliance for ~15 years as he built the massive fortress of Icecrown. It was only when he amassed his army and attacked Stormwind and Org that we realized he was a danger.

So yes, Lei Shen vs Arthas no army = an easy Lei Shen victory. Both armies present = an easy win for Arthas. His whole "1 shot the raid" thingy was forced lore to make the LK not look like a chump. Blizzard could write any character as 1 shotting the raid.

deathwing was 1 shot us while flying
we were just passing through lvl-up

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Im not fucking Bulldog !! If you see my original post i personally think Lei Shen would win.

*looking at Rathbourne*
i'm watching you

[Chromell]

Are you asking who'd win a fight between the Lich king and Lei Shen the slayer of kings and gods? Hmmm, I gotta think, that's a tricky.

[kaelix1]

I agree. Arthas @ the peak of his power means the armies must be present. Without them Arthas wasn't enough of a threat to gain interest from the Horde or Alliance for ~15 years as he built the massive fortress of Icecrown. It was only when he amassed his army and attacked Stormwind and Org that we realized he was a danger.

The bold part is wrong there buddy, i suggest your reading Arthas the wrath of the lich king book, quite good i would say,

[Deleted]

Lich King ofcourse. Lei Shen fanboys are being silly.

[Florena]

I vote Arthas. If memory serves, we just walk into Lei Shen's room, with him having all his electro cube stuff for a home field advantage, and just straight up kill him, while Arthas required an NPC going super saiyan and breaking Frostmourne. It all comes down to, I think, could Lei Shen break Frostmourne and my guess is 'probably not.' Take away Lei Shen's homefield advantage too and put them in a neutral fighting place and I think the LK would win personally.

[steelballfc]

Lich King ofcourse. Lei Shen fanboys are being silly.

lei shen has no fanboys !!!

[Quincey]

Arthas is my man crush, love everything about him.

I *hate* lei shen, the mogu and all the lore attached to him and Pandaria. (That entire fucking expansion was just a shit show for lore imo)

but if anyone votes Arthas in a straight up 1v1 you are deluding yourself. There wouldn't even be a competition here Arthas is a strong knight with powerful necrotic powers but the majority of his strength comes from his ability to resurrect and empower his army.

On sheer size/physical strength alone Lei shen has this in the bag, Arthas, even at full strength, is limited by his host's body, He loses the physical fight. There is no reason to think that a titan construct empowered by Aman'thul would be affected by any of his plague powers, His frost powers are obviously not enough to hold Lei shen in place long enough to be effective. His only hope is to rely on his unholy power and frankly it just wouldn't match up.

On the flip side we know the thunderkings main power would be exactly that. Thunder and lightning. Against the Lich king in a full metal suit, He is going to fry.

[JTHMRulez1]

A Doomsday device capable of wiping all life on Azeroth > The Ashbringer.

[steelballfc]

I vote Arthas. If memory serves, we just walk into Lei Shen's room, with him having all his electro cube stuff for a home field advantage, and just straight up kill him, while Arthas required an NPC going super saiyan and breaking Frostmourne. It all comes down to, I think, could Lei Shen break Frostmourne and my guess is 'probably not.' Take away Lei Shen's homefield advantage too and put them in a neutral fighting place and I think the LK would win personally.

the post said in lei shen prime 12000 years ago