How long after Legion will people start making WoD wasn't that bad/nostalgia posts?

[TheTaurenOrc]

5 million people can't all be wrong.

[FertsBlert]

Ok, wod sucked. But I've only heard good things about Legion. So what exactly is it about Legion that's looking bad? Especially as it seems to be a total departure from Wod.

The main thing that is concerning me with Legion is the difficulty of swapping specs due to the artifacts at least right now, not sure what catch ups will be in place later. If you are a tank that is it you are a tank, you can't say level as a tank and swap to DPS for groups (which is what I prefer, I like pulling everything in sight and killing it with very little chance of dying), if you are a healer you MUST level as a healer since otherwise your artifact won't be leveled for the content you are doing. This has further ramifications in raiding, Blizz doesn't have the best track record of balancing specs over the course of an expansion if Demo is the new hotness (and doing say 30% more DPS as has been the difference between 2 specs in some patches) in Patch 7.2 and you haven't leveled your Demo artifact well guess what? Warm the pine, you are benched even if you're a better player than dude with the leveled Demo artifact since that amount of difference in output does make a difference.

Some classes I've tried feel very different but it mostly comes down to having to relearn how to play the class, which as a long time warlock I tend to not really have a problem with, business as usual for 'locks. Some classes are hitting the "have to relearn" for the first time ever so I would wait on class flow reports for a couple of months after Legion going live.

[Maudib]

No one will EVER say WoD wasn't that bad. WoD IS as bad as it gets.

[kaintk]

after people will see that they have to go farm crafting mats :P

[OrcsRLame]

My point of view on expansions, starting with Wrath. This is all from the perspective of a pve player.

Wrath of the Lich King: Overall I had a ton of fun in this expansion, but there were some things that bothered me. I played a warrior, and Fury was unarguably OP in every raid except ToC and the start of Ulduar before the Arp changes were really felt. Despite that, I kind of hated Fury because it was impossible to find a tank that could hold aggro, especially after I got Shadowmourne. Most dps had some kind of passive threat reduction and/or a threat drop. Fury warriors had neither of these and in fact had 10% increased threat gen. So if you were doing 20k dps single target you were generating 22k threat. Most tanks dealt 200% increased threat, so to match your threat tanks had to deal about 7.3k dps sustained, which was a tall order for a tank even in ICC gear. Misdirect kind of carried threat for tanks in raids, but it was optimal to use Tricks on your highest dps, and nothing could beat a good warrior with Shadowmourne so that kind of cancelled out the extra threat from misdirects. This meant tanks basically had to use dps gear for threat, and that was annoying because heroic ICC bosses were pretty much designed to be able to kill tanks in 2 melees, so any drop in survivability was really fucking annoying. For me, raids were fucking stressful. Every single pull was me having my eyes glued to Omen and praying to God that I didn't crit too much in the first 30 seconds. Oh and Salv. I'd pretty much have to have a Salv rolling on me all the time or I'd start creeping up on the tank, even 5+ minutes into a fight. Dungeons were fucking great though, and I loved playing my alts in Wrath. The Frozen Halls on heroic, while not super hard, were an adequate challenge to alts and they gave gear that was honestly pretty good. I personally really enjoyed the story too. Overall I have a lot of fond memories of this expansion.

Cataclysm: I truly loved T11. The tough as nails dungeons were fantastic as well, and I felt like they got nerfed at just the right time. I'd already seen what they had to offer concerning challenge many times, and by the time they got nerfed they were just starting to feel like work. If all of Cataclysm was like T11, it would be pretty hard to beat imo. Then Rise of the Fail Troll Shit came out. I was doing heroic raids on two characters at the time, and valor capping was just the most AIDS thing in the universe. You needed to run like 7 fucking heroics to get capped, and you could either do "classic" cata heroics, which gave like a third of the points, or you could random queue for 2 fucking dungeons that were just annoying as fuck to run. Even with a full premade it wasn't fast, and doing it on two characters was just the worst thing ever. In fact, I kind of blame this for me not playing alts anymore. These 2 fucking dungeons pretty much ruined alting for me. And if they ever, EVER, bring back a similar system where you just grind 2 dungeons 7+ times a week for points, I swear to God I will unsub instantaneously. Won't even say goodbye to my guild, I'll just uninstall the fucking game, cancel my sub and that will be that. And then Firelands came out. I had so much fun clearing trash for an hour just to get to the first boss. /wrists. Of all the 7 bosses in Firelands, the only ones I found to be fun were Baleroc and Rag. Every other fight in that instance can go suck a fat dick, especially Rhyolith the Glitch Lord. It was shortly after this that my guild imploded due to my server dying. I unsubbed and didn't come back until 8 months into SoO. Rise of the Zandalari and Firelands just stomp all over anything else that was good about Cataclysm for me.

Mists of Pandaria: As I said I wasn't subbed for most of Mists. Despite that, it got really stale really quickly. I don't like the Pandaren and I didn't like Pandaria. I can't really comment on the quality of the raids other than SoO, but I do appreciate how far mechanics had come since Firelands. Doing fights like Blackfuse and even Malkorok is pretty jarring when you're used to bosses with the complexity of Baleroc. Timeless Isle was boss as fuck though. More zones like that imo. Tanking was also a huge surprise to me, but active mitigation grew on me pretty quickly. The power creep was also way beyond what I was used to seeing in wow. Comparing a fresh 90 to one in heroic SoO gear, it was a WAY bigger difference than fresh 80 vs heroic ICC gear. I mean, even as a Shadowmourne warrior, I couldn't solo heroic dungeons. I'd at least need a healer, and even then some of those bigger pulls would fuck you up if you got crit. In MoP, if you had gear you were virtually a God.

Warlords of Draenor: Overall I'm pretty satisfied with this expansion. I do really feel the content drought, not just in the sense that HFC has been out for a million years, but also because other than Tanaan the world doesn't really feel like it's had anything new added to it since the launch of WoD. The world bosses were all really lame, except for Kazzak, he was alright, but even that was lame compared to Ordos. Tanaan just in general feels like a really shitty Timeless Isle. It's the same overall concept, but Timeless Isle had this great sense of danger about it! The mobs all had their own interesting gimmicks that you had to play around, and there were adequate challenges for any gear level. You could be a fresh 90 and the weakest mobs out there wouldn't destroy you, or you could have full heroic SoO gear and those High Priests of Ordos could still fuck your shit if you made a mistake. For someone that was coming back to the game, Timeless Isle was really cool because it felt like I could go and safely explore more of the Isle as my character got more powerful. Tanaan has none of that. It's just so fucking binary with none of the mobs having interesting mechanics and everywhere being the same except for Throne of Kil'jaeden. And Throne is not at all a substitute for Kilnmasters and High Priests of Ordos. On my 740 ilvl prot paladin I could pull like 20 mobs at Throne and just AoE them in the duration of ring. It's like the devs took a look at Timeless Isle and copied it without actually playing through it or bothering to think about what made it so good. Oh, and I fucking hate Garrisons. I guess the only reason I like WoD, is that the raids are really fun. Even though it's been out for forever and a day, I still enjoy raiding HFC, and I loved the hell out of BRF. Didn't care too much for Highmaul though. Blackhand might be my favorite fight to have done as progression.

So uh, yeah, your move internet! It's unlikely any of my opinions are going to be changed by Legion's launch.

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The main thing that is concerning me with Legion is the difficulty of swapping specs due to the artifacts at least right now, not sure what catch ups will be in place later. If you are a tank that is it you are a tank, you can't say level as a tank and swap to DPS for groups (which is what I prefer, I like pulling everything in sight and killing it with very little chance of dying), if you are a healer you MUST level as a healer since otherwise your artifact won't be leveled for the content you are doing. This has further ramifications in raiding, Blizz doesn't have the best track record of balancing specs over the course of an expansion if Demo is the new hotness (and doing say 30% more DPS as has been the difference between 2 specs in some patches) in Patch 7.2 and you haven't leveled your Demo artifact well guess what? Warm the pine, you are benched even if you're a better player than dude with the leveled Demo artifact since that amount of difference in output does make a difference.

Some classes I've tried feel very different but it mostly comes down to having to relearn how to play the class, which as a long time warlock I tend to not really have a problem with, business as usual for 'locks. Some classes are hitting the "have to relearn" for the first time ever so I would wait on class flow reports for a couple of months after Legion going live.

This is kind of BS. I'm gonna level as a tank and switch to dps for raiding. Artifact power follows an exponential curve, so it will be way faster to get 2 major passives for 2 artifacts than it will be to get 3 major passives for 1 artifact. And it's gonna take like a million years to get all 20 ranks of that final ability. It will be a relatively small drop in overall power to level a second artifact to the point where it's playable for mythic dungeons and raids.

Most people won't even max their first artifact before Artifact Knowledge starts kicking in any way. Since the amount of AP you earn ramps up over time anyway, there's functionally diminishing returns for leveling one artifact weapon anyway, because unless you play 20 hours a day you're not gonna earn the ~850k artifact power required to max out your final ability before you have a shitload of stacks of Artifact Knowledge.

My plan, is I'm gonna get the first 2 major passives on my prot weapon, then switch to leveling my ret weapon. I'll play for 16 hours a day, and by the time raids come out my prot artifact will be usable and my ret artifact will be one of the highest on server. No big deal.

[Halicia]

Nah, usually the last expansion is always the worst, and the before it was the best.

Because, most of the people getting into the part of commenting about best/worst/etc, are in that timegap where they STARTED playing, then an expansion came and "changed everything they liked" so it was bad, and now that they've had the bandaid ripped off, new changes dont seem as bad... but they still have that nostalgia for the way it was when they first started.

[Stonecloak]

I know it's been said before, but in this case I think WoD will be known as the expansion where people left and didn't come back.

[Autoriot]

1 1/2 years of hfc? lol ok bro sick math

14 months and one week. Happy?

Wait, let me rephrase that for you: 1420 SWAGyolo sick bro

[Lex Icon]

Unforunatly the Kung fu panda people can't let that go and missed out on how good of an expansion mop actually was. Mop gave us 5 open world places to do things in AFTER launch thunder island, Dino island, landing zone Karasang wilds, battle field barrens and timeless island wod gave us 1 fucking 1 tanaan jungle and that was suppose to be on launch anyway. It also gave us brawlers guild, scenarios , repeatable rares in the world, and world bosses that dropped tier gear. But you derp pandas. How one can even say mop and wod are even close to each other is a joke. Sadly though that joke was played on us players by blizz as they cut the hell out of content and charged us more on top of it. Just unbelieveable

looks matter.. if you dont like the setting of an expansion gameplay wont really fix that either. asian themes got 0 appeal to me and that is why i cant enjoy MoP content. if you like that sort of stuff i'm sure it was great.. luckily they figured that crap out halfway through or something and added some non asian themed content to that expansion.

[Deleted User Guy]

Funny how during MoP everyone hated the shit out of it, now the general consensus is it was one of the better expansions (except for 14 months SOO).

I imagine during the Legion content drought (inevitable) people will start posting "WoD was actually pretty good, fuck Legion" type posts.

Either that or it will go down with Cata. Time will tell!

Toward the end of Legion's drought period. Something about remembering how great Ashran was. Anyway, like any expansion, they have their ups and downs. I've enjoyed each one (I started a few months before BC).

[Riistov]

If legion is as bad as it appears, almost instantly. Both will be the two worst expansions followed by MOP and cata.

Ouch! All that edge is bound to cut someone!

[Deleted]

Nothing will ever top the shit factor of MoP. That was the shittiest expansion ever!

[Zoldor]

WoD is weak all around and I've never unsubbed or stopped playing. I don't think I'll ever look back upon it favorably sans two things:

I made a lot of gold (not necessarily making the expansion good)
The raids were not that bad and had some good bosses

I lied 3...the questing was a better story telling device, but the story can suck it.

I don't think I'll ever look back at WoD with a high regard. I hated the story all around, I loathe a mult-verse, I play all orcs, still can't stand this story at all. This is the most mechanical I've ever played WoW. Get to max as fast as possible run dungeons and raid. Skettis was as close as I came to enjoying the story.

Game play for me was meh, I spent some annoying time being Demo, good damage, super obnoxious play style and a lot of specs I enjoyed sucked pretty bad until late HFC or not at all. I just don't see this one ever being looked upon in a favorable light. You can't redeem it anywhere but some minor areas that won't make up for the suck. Even the patches added so little. Hate MoP for the story but at least they were adding shit throughout the life cycle and some of it didn't even take place of have real attachment to the Asian theme.

Easily stands as the worst expansion in my eyes a good ways behind Cata. Wrath = BC, Vanilla, MoP, Cata,>>>>>WoD

[RobertMugabe]

Well..it does not have to be nostalgia. Contrary to what people shout again and again, there are people who like aspects of WoD (like the levelling and praise the raids) and yes..some even like Garrisons.

So naturally somebody will make a "I miss Garrisons" thread and it can be a honest and not rose-tinted glasses post because the actually DID like Garrisons. I know it is impossible for some people to put themselves in others shoes or accept different opinions, but...it is know to have happened.

THIS

IMHO MoP was my favortie xpac

[RoKPaNda]

Funny how during MoP everyone hated the shit out of it, now the general consensus is it was one of the better expansions (except for 14 months SOO).

I imagine during the Legion content drought (inevitable) people will start posting "WoD was actually pretty good, fuck Legion" type posts.

Either that or it will go down with Cata. Time will tell!

This post is pretty cute and makes a lot of assumptions. Yes historically people have hated the current expansion and loved the previous one despite all the claims made when that previous one was current. However just because that is the trend, that does not mean that criticism of the current expansion is invalid, or that does not mean that the current expansion is not particularly horrible. I liked all of the WoW expansions when they were current, yes even Cata. I fucking HATE WoD. WoD is awful. WoD is the first time in WoW's life span where I've completely written off an expansion.

[Azgraal]

If legion is as bad as it appears, almost instantly. Both will be the two worst expansions followed by MOP and cata.

Please define "bad".

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Nothing will ever top the shit factor of MoP. That was the shittiest expansion ever!

I couldn't disagree more if I tried. People weren't inclined to give MoP a chance, it was an awesome expansion.

[Riistov]

Six months or so is my guess.

[Zoldor]

Please define "bad".

- - - Updated - - -



I couldn't disagree more if I tried. People weren't inclined to give MoP a chance, it was an awesome expansion.

Didn't care for the theme, but I respected that MoP was a well developed, polished expansion that had a good set of patches. Production wise and with theme aside a really solid expansion compared to Cata especially. I'll always hold Vanilla, BC and Wrath above because their theme was also awesome and included a lot of the same greatness that MoP had. Their weakest point would be questing.

[Zoldor]

That is four "worst x-pacs" out of six. Try harder. Add WotLK somehow..it started the whole "worst x-pac" thing

Oh wait..it didn't http://www.gamespot.com/forums/pc-ma...-wow-25902237/

Holy shit that thread is GOLD. It is almost so perfect I think it is fake. Someone should just link that every time people talk about casualization, death of WoW, or how bad expansion X is just in case people forgot. Thank you sir. Even has the I'm waiting for X MMO. Ahh this satisfies me. I just thought my memory was bad, but this nice time capsule helps me remember nope, it was like this then too you aren't a crazy person.

Also, enjoying the description of Vanilla raiding as casual and easier than BC. But I thought it was harder according to all the fans now.

[Roadblock]

Nah, usually the last expansion is always the worst, and the before it was the best.

Because, most of the people getting into the part of commenting about best/worst/etc, are in that timegap where they STARTED playing, then an expansion came and "changed everything they liked" so it was bad, and now that they've had the bandaid ripped off, new changes dont seem as bad... but they still have that nostalgia for the way it was when they first started.

Same shitpost different day. Never in the history of polls has this been true.

2011-07-29: Cataclysm least liked http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...poll+expansion
2013-02-10: Cataclysm by landslide http://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.php...do=showresults
2013-11-10: Cataclysm worst by landslide (while MoP current) http://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.php...do=showresults
2015-03-26: Cataclysm least liked (start of WoD) http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...poll+expansion

And everything since 5-6 months in WoD is WoD by a landslide.

Maybe WoD is just "objectively" the shittiest period of the game ever? (sofar)