No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[quras]

SNIP....

We should be spending more time with questing and farming or whatever, than with travelling. Blizzard seems to want us to waste time with travelling, though.

Let me tell you one simple thing: If people expect something interesting happen on the way, they will walk the way and look out for such things. This will happen on land mounts just as like as on flying ones. This will not happen on flight taxis though, because you cannot interrupt your travel. Thus, flight paths as they are implemented in WoW are inferior to any other transportation. If we would have instant teleportation to portals like in GW2, I would probably be OK with flying at the end of the expansion. But as long as we have flight paths, I will hate being grounded.

I agree. The time in game should be spent doing the quests and world content, not traveling to get there and especially so come max level and beyond.

I understand your hatred of flight paths. They have always been one of WOW least interesting features and since the beginning we have asked blizzard to make them better. Straighten them out and more efficient. That has never work, blizzard has never put much change in them and they are still one of the worst things about wow.

Ground travel pat max level is also one of those bad ideas blizzard seems to want to hang on. NOT because it makes the game better but because of the possible hurdles and amount of time it could chew up in a gamers play time. Extending even the most mundane things. Instead of working on better quests and world content, blizzard wants to build another "F"ed up rat maze world and make you run through it till the entire game feels like a chore and you just want out.

flying at max level alleviates a lot of that but it also shows just how mediocre blizzard made quests and content as well as just how short it actually is.

Flying can be implemented but that also means blizzard needs to put in more work for questing and world content and thats something they don't seem to be willing to do. It wasn't done in WoD and so far, it isn't in legion.

[Dhrizzle]

The "rides" in the theme park analogy are the dungeons, raids, BGs and arenas. Fast-track is a poor comparison as it involves paying extra to push in front of others in the queue, but it does have a spot reservation system and a personal teleportation system which would be frickin' sweet at a theme park. What you're asking for is a personal helicopter to take you to the various sights and attractions, not many theme parks provide those.

Personally, I prefer content being designed with a good mix of navigating and fighting. If a quest involves 7 minutes riding and 3 minutes fighting that still sounds more entertaining than 3 minutess flying over terrain and 7 minutes grinding mobs.

[WinningOne]

You're touching on the point which makes all the difference in this topic. Flying mounts leave the players with more choices. People who want to walk can walk, people who want to ride can ride, and people who want to fly can fly. If the Blizzard developers were so concerned with immersing players in the game they would have developed interesting content which encouraged players to land or made flying more dynamic.

[quras]

The "rides" in the theme park analogy are the dungeons, raids, BGs and arenas.

and so are the quests and world content. Those are the rides people want to go to and go repeatedly. the wait to get there doesn't need to be made longer with ground travel only especially so when it comes to max level. When gamers have seen and explored the world already.

If blizzard feels the need to consume gamers play time. do it with better designed quests and world content. The travel to get there at max level doesn't need to be "F"ed up with ground travel only as they hope to waste your already limited game time.

Fast-track is a poor comparison as it involves paying extra to push in front of others in the queue, but it does have a spot reservation system and a personal teleportation system which would be frickin' sweet at a theme park. What you're asking for is a personal helicopter to take you to the various sights and attractions, not many theme parks provide those.

Actually fast track is a perfect comparison. You buy/earn that flying mount and it gets you to the "rides" ASAP. Not wasting time trying to get there on mundane things you no longer have an interest in because you've been in the park a number of times now. It's well past time to skip the boring things and get to the quests you want to "ride".

and while wow does have other interesting features to get you to the more interesting part sooner. The world content doesn't need that extra hurdle to slow you do come max level. WOW seems to be implementing a travel feature that does nothing but slow you down in getting to those "rides" at a time when your game time doesn't need to be wasted.

Personally, I prefer content being designed with a good mix of navigating and fighting. If a quest involves 7 minutes riding and 3 minutes fighting that still sounds more entertaining than 3 minutess flying over terrain and 7 minutes grinding mobs.

I'll take the latter because I know quests can be a bit more involved than just killing things. Shit, make that step one of a multiple step quest but hell. Lets not pretend grinding mobs is the only option available to quest designers.

[Deleted]

You mean.... during the same dead period cycle of the MoP expansion (late SoO until WoD release)? Geee.. how mysterious.... I wonder why.... Could there even be a pattern... of people only 'caring' when bored shitless of the same content for 12 months? I wonder.

Check the top 10 contributors post-count in this thread (and the old one) and it'll enlighten you. Thats why we say this thread is just a small handful of pro-flying clowns cluelessly going round in circles circle-jerking with the other 10 pro-flyers, and arguing with everyone else who pops in with 1-2 posts to say they prefer no-flying.

I think this post sums things up very nicely.

There are people in this thread that need to get a grip. The amount of time being devoted by some people to posting opinionated drivel is incredible. All over flying in a game now aimed at children - for fuck sake people grow up, its embarrassing.

[Mafic]

and so are the quests and world content. Those are the rides people want to go to and go repeatedly. the wait to get there doesn't need to be made longer with ground travel only especially so when it comes to max level. When gamers have seen and explored the world already.

If blizzard feels the need to consume gamers play time. do it with better designed quests and world content. The travel to get there at max level doesn't need to be "F"ed up with ground travel only as they hope to waste your already limited game time.



Actually fast track is a perfect comparison. You buy/earn that flying mount and it gets you to the "rides" ASAP. Not wasting time trying to get there on mundane things you no longer have an interest in because you've been in the park a number of times now. It's well past time to skip the boring things and get to the quests you want to "ride".

and while wow does have other interesting features to get you to the more interesting part sooner. The world content doesn't need that extra hurdle to slow you do come max level. WOW seems to be implementing a travel feature that does nothing but slow you down in getting to those "rides" at a time when your game time doesn't need to be wasted.



I'll take the latter because I know quests can be a bit more involved than just killing things. Shit, make that step one of a multiple step quest but hell. Lets not pretend grinding mobs is the only option available to quest designers.

Good post.

Let me add that Legion is going to be about sitting in Dalaran with massive lag while waiting for a queue to pop.

[SirCowdog]

You know what cracks me up? Every time someone makes a case FOR flying, the response is always something to the effect of this:

Namecalling.
Ignoring the points that refute and critically break down the argument with logic and intelligence.
Calling the poster lazy.
Calling the poster a child.
Making up some reason against flight that has nothing to do with anything.
Citing "Immersion" or "fun" as though there was only one universal version of each.
Claiming Blizzard knows best, like they're some kind of infallible gods of gaming(this is the most frightening).
Like every change Blizzard makes or GTFO(which is a non-argument).

I haven't seen any posts against flight in the past few months that wasn't made in a completely arrogant, dismissive, and intentionally rude manner. Literally every single one of them seeks to attack the person making the argument instead of the argument itself. And when they do try to make arguments against flight, it's with VERY bad logic, or fictitious reasons that simply don't have any grounding in reality or have already been proven wrong.

[Connll]

You know what cracks me up? Every time someone makes a case FOR flying, the response is always something to the effect of this:

Namecalling.
Ignoring the points that refute and critically break down the argument with logic and intelligence.
Calling the poster lazy.
Calling the poster a child.
Making up some reason against flight that has nothing to do with anything.
Citing "Immersion" or "fun" as though there was only one universal version of each.
Claiming Blizzard knows best, like they're some kind of infallible gods of gaming(this is the most frightening).
Like every change Blizzard makes or GTFO(which is a non-argument).

I haven't seen any posts against flight in the past few months that wasn't made in a completely arrogant, dismissive, and intentionally rude manner. Literally every single one of them seeks to attack the person making the argument instead of the argument itself. And when they do try to make arguments against flight, it's with VERY bad logic, or fictitious reasons that simply don't have any grounding in reality or have already been proven wrong.

Not to mention that many (most?) anti-fliers are so "confident" that their way is the best, that they WON´T stay in the ground if Flight is possible.

Not even them will touch what they are defending, without being forced.

[clevin]

Players will gravitate towards the easiest way to achieve their goals evening it makes for a less satisfying experience. That's why Mythic raids don't have optional buffs/NPCs that guarantee success and Diablo 3 doesn't have an auction house.

... wtf are you talking about? You said

The bottom line is if the content is good and engaging on the ground, nobody will give a shit about whether they can or cant fly.

My reply was in reference to that - people will do the 'good and engaging on the ground' even if they CAN fly hence prohibiting flight isn't needed.

Seriously, think before typing.

- - - Updated - - -

I think this post sums things up very nicely.

There are people in this thread that need to get a grip. The amount of time being devoted by some people to posting opinionated drivel is incredible. All over flying in a game now aimed at children - for fuck sake people grow up, its embarrassing.

One... you have almost 1000 posts on the same forum dedicated to that same game and two, you're posting to tell others to.. stop posting. Yes, grow up indeed.

[Maudib]

Sure - its quite simple - but in essence: You don't know what you want, nor whats good for you or the game. Its not something to feel bad or ashamed about, but its the reason Blizzard is the game developer here and you are not. A lot of players are like this.

So you can't tell me why it breaks immersion? I mean you spew this other drivel... but do you actually have an opinion? An intelligent reasoning behind your statement?

This is the problem with many anti-flyers... they just parrot buzzwords and catchphrases they hear Blizzard use... without understanding any of it.

[Deleted]

You know what cracks me up? Every time someone makes a case FOR flying, the response is always something to the effect of this:

Namecalling.
Ignoring the points that refute and critically break down the argument with logic and intelligence.
Calling the poster lazy.
Calling the poster a child.
Making up some reason against flight that has nothing to do with anything.
Citing "Immersion" or "fun" as though there was only one universal version of each.
Claiming Blizzard knows best, like they're some kind of infallible gods of gaming(this is the most frightening).
Like every change Blizzard makes or GTFO(which is a non-argument).

I haven't seen any posts against flight in the past few months that wasn't made in a completely arrogant, dismissive, and intentionally rude manner. Literally every single one of them seeks to attack the person making the argument instead of the argument itself. And when they do try to make arguments against flight, it's with VERY bad logic, or fictitious reasons that simply don't have any grounding in reality or have already been proven wrong.

This is part of the problem, things have only been proven wrong in your opinion only. I've not seen a single post that disproves any of the reasons Blizzard have stated for flight being a problem.

You put forward arguments to the same issues over and over again assuming you are right. Ironically, the post following yours someone has posted the "anti flyers still fly" argument even though that has been countered many times. In short, you are pissing into the wind if you think you are changing anyone's mind.

[Coffeh]

I was one of the biggest proponents for allowing flight in Draenor. I have much less of a problem with keeping it out of Legion. Unlike WoD, there will be a lot of content and reasons to be out in the world in Legion. That's all the difference. In WoD there was literally no reason to not have flying as soon as you hit max level. It has 0 impact on anything (outside of world pvp, I suppose, which is long since dead anyway). But in Legion you'll have constant quests going on throughout the world. The whole world scales with your level as well, so it'll be less trivial travelling around the land. Obviously at a certain point gear will still make it trivial, and that's about when flying should be added.

[SirCowdog]

This is part of the problem, things have only been proven wrong in your opinion only. I've not seen a single post that disproves any of the reasons Blizzard have stated for flight being a problem.

You put forward arguments to the same issues over and over again assuming you are right. Ironically, the post following yours someone has posted the "anti flyers still fly" argument even though that has been countered many times. In short, you are pissing into the wind if you think you are changing anyone's mind.

We changed Blizzard's mind 2 weeks after they said "no flying ever again". So I think we're perfectly justified with what we're doing.

Also, the reason you haven't seen anything that disproves Blizzard's stance is because you've got your eyes closed. Refusing to look at something isn't the same as it not being there.

I suspect that most of you guys arguing against flight simply don't want to admit that it's ok for people to want to play a different way than you, and that the game can actually support both styles of play.

[Maudib]

This is part of the problem, things have only been proven wrong in your opinion only. I've not seen a single post that disproves any of the reasons Blizzard have stated for flight being a problem.

You put forward arguments to the same issues over and over again assuming you are right. Ironically, the post following yours someone has posted the "anti flyers still fly" argument even though that has been countered many times. In short, you are pissing into the wind if you think you are changing anyone's mind.

This doesn't necessarily have to do with "right or wrong", but preference. AT LEAST half of the player base wants flying. Of the other half, a good portion are neutral, not caring either way. So clearly the majority want flying back in game at max level.

If no other argument holds weight (although they do) the fact that this game grew and thrived for 8 years with flying proves it CAN'T be as detrimental as Blizzard spins it to be. They see it as counter productive to making the content last longer. Never mind that the content, on it's own, is unable to last longer.

It is so clear that Wrath had more content than WoD... in every single area. It had more content patches. And when said and done will not have been "live" any more appreciable time than WoD.

Flying has become, for many, a core feature of WoW... one we are not ready to so easily let go, or be patronized with an end of expansion unlocking.

[Zalamander]

This is part of the problem, things have only been proven wrong in your opinion only. I've not seen a single post that disproves any of the reasons Blizzard have stated for flight being a problem.

You put forward arguments to the same issues over and over again assuming you are right. Ironically, the post following yours someone has posted the "anti flyers still fly" argument even though that has been countered many times. In short, you are pissing into the wind if you think you are changing anyone's mind.

I'll give you a hand, here you have a list of every excuse(problem?) Blizzard stated with flying, shot down.

https://inanage.com/2015/05/25/a-flight-too-far/

But to most posters here, that's old news in this thread, everyone here already knows all blizzards excuses for claiming flying to be a problem are all false, its pretty tiresome seeing someone coming in and trying to defend them at this stage.

[Dhrizzle]

... wtf are you talking about? You said <snip>

I didn't say that.

Seriously, think before typing.

Very sage advice.

I'll give you a hand, here you have a list of every excuse(problem?) Blizzard stated with flying, shot down.

https://inanage.com/2015/05/25/a-flight-too-far/

But to most posters here, that's old news in this thread, everyone here already knows all blizzards excuses for claiming flying to be a problem are all false, its pretty tiresome seeing someone coming in and trying to defend them at this stage.

Yeah, I'm sure we've all seen those points being regurgitated in this thread. Doesn't make them correct just because someone put them on a blog, especially the one about them trying to go back to stage-illusions for mysterious reasons.

[Zalamander]

Yeah, I'm sure we've all seen those points being regurgitated in this thread. Doesn't make them correct just because someone put them on a blog, especially the one about them trying to go back to stage-illusions for mysterious reasons.

Yeah that was the best argument I ever heard. you mean the simple explanations of why there is no logical correctness in blizzards excuses aren't valid... because the text is in a blog? what? So I should copy all that text and paste it here so it is in a forum instead so you can accept the facts?

[Dhrizzle]

Yeah that was the best argument I ever heard. you mean the simple explanations of why there is no logical correctness in blizzards excuses aren't valid... because the text is in a blog? what? So I should copy all that text and paste it here so it is in a forum instead so you can accept the facts?

I'm saying that I disagreed with those opinions on the forums, and I disagree with them in that blog, regardless of you linking it as if they magically become facts.

[Acethekraut]

I'm actually ok with this. WoD wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be without flying for release.

[Zalamander]

I'm saying that I disagreed with those opinions on the forums, and I disagree with them in that blog, regardless of you linking it as if they magically become facts.

The facts is that its ridiculous seeing people defending no-flying thinking that blizzard want to get rid of flying for the sake of the players. When in reality Blizzard only want to get rid of flying for their own selfish reasons, making development easier for them. They don't care at all what you think about flying.
Whats even worse is that blizzard comes up with silly invalid illogical excuses instead of being honest about their real reasons to why they don't like flying. This disconnect from their own community is a great threat to the game.

The largest reason to argue for flying is for the sake of the game. I spent so many years in this game that its hard to argue that its not one of my favorite games but with WoD I don't like the way its headed. And if blizzard gets a chance to remove flying for good it will only get more "on rails" and it will be the end of WoW.
That's why its important to defend flying in this game, for the sake of the game it self and to prevent blizzard from destroying it.

Even if you don't like flying, if they remove flying the game will get much worse for you in every aspect.