[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[bicycle]

Those feels when you get called a shit tank because the other Protection pally you pugged with thinks running acp and class trinket is shit, and that running the cleave trinket, plus wue, putting you at 4450 haste rating is BiS.

Ohh and hes right cause he was 12th in world to kill MArchie (he wasn't)

Last time I checked those trinkets were AskMrRobot's recommendations for prot pally. You go there and tell it to suggest upgrades, and it tells you, fuck your class trinket, fuck bonus armor, use the worst of the three strength trinkets!

[TipTopPoet]

Has anyone determined what the optimal first golden trait or even the optimal upgrade route on the artifact will be?

[Gallahadd]

Personally for me, speaking with... No real info, just what I like the look of on the calculators.

I'll be going for the AS bubble, then working up through AD thorns or get AS AoE then down to HoT on LoTP.

[TipTopPoet]

I was also leaning towards the AS bubble first. My thinking was additional mitigation when you still have a lack of gear during early progression. But I'm not the biggest theory crafter, so I was wondering if someone actually ran some numbers on it yet.

[Shieldi]

I'll also be starting with Bulwark of Order (AS absorb talent) as it appears to have the highest impact on survivability out of all the talents, then making my way to Tyr's Enforcer for what looks to be a huge aoe dps increase, and finally taking Light of the Titans last.

[celinamuna]

Personally will be going : red --> blue --> green

[Gallahadd]

Yeah... I was tempted to go for bonus crit on judge ASAP, because of the charge refresh...

Do you think it's worth getting that and possible even socketting for It?

[celinamuna]

Yeah... I was tempted to go for bonus crit on judge ASAP, because of the charge refresh...

Do you think it's worth getting that and possible even socketting for It?

Think you'll be getting that or mb sotr mitigation, not sure atm.

I do think that we're going to be farming 5 mans for a while b4 raid, so tyr's AoE will be better than absorb.

[Sepelio]

My build is pretty similar to yours celina except for going into consecrate instead of the judgment crit, specifically for the reason you gave of 5 man farming

[celinamuna]

My build is pretty similar to yours celina except for going into consecrate instead of the judgment crit, specifically for the reason you gave of 5 man farming

I'm honestly not sure how good it will be in 5 mans when we're on the move. The question is will you benefit from extra duration on AoE packs, or will you be already going into the next pack.

Plus this J unlock makes it easier to pick up 3rd gold allowing you to not take AD reduction till later (will see how it's useful it is)

[Gallahadd]

I do think that we're going to be farming 5 mans for a while b4 raid, so tyr's AoE will be better than absorb.

That's a solid point. Which gems do you think it'll be worth socketting? Going for the AD CDR x3 would mean a 60sec cd on it. Which could be rather strong...

But then with the way our spec seeks to be going, judgement crit should be pretty strong.

Has anyone done the math yet? Is it even worth doing?

[jsantana2418]

Hello all!

what are your current thoughts on the prot pally changes in legion vs. the WoD version, especially in regards by removing holy power because according to blizzard it didn't have much depth into the class fantasy if I remember correctly? I don't have beta access to give it my own opinion, but following the changes from various sources in forums/youtube videos gives me the impression that it's quite passive defensively at mitigating alot of damage baseline. The rotation feeling slow and meaningless to some degree making the playstyle feel dry as you wait for abilities to come off cd and/or spam one ability endlessly via talent? Comparing it to other tanks which appear to be alot more dynamic in playstyle because of the resource interaction with abilities(build and spend).

[Deleted]

Hello all!

what are your current thoughts on the prot pally changes in legion vs. the WoD version, especially in regards by removing holy power because according to blizzard it didn't have much depth into the class fantasy if I remember correctly? I don't have beta access to give it my own opinion, but following the changes from various sources in forums/youtube videos gives me the impression that it's quite passive defensively at mitigating alot of damage baseline. The rotation feeling slow and meaningless to some degree making the playstyle feel dry as you wait for abilities to come off cd and/or spam one ability endlessly via talent? Comparing it to other tanks which appear to be alot more dynamic in playstyle because of the resource interaction with abilities(build and spend).

Very few of us like how the class plays. We're mostly okay with the removal of HoPo. Class plays like anus, basically 0 interaction outside of the stupid hamfisted judgement shit. People will argue that SoTR charges is a resource, but you should laugh at those people and call them silly.

Seraphim returning is a step in the right direction. Whether's it's strong or not currently doesn't matter so I won't bother mentioning it. It does get some passive defense from a few artifact traits but otherwise it's the same "put SoTR up" with a boring playstyle.

[celinamuna]

That's a solid point. Which gems do you think it'll be worth socketting? Going for the AD CDR x3 would mean a 60sec cd on it. Which could be rather strong...

But then with the way our spec seeks to be going, judgement crit should be pretty strong.

Has anyone done the math yet? Is it even worth doing?

I mean really depends on final tuning and what exactly you're doing.
Most of them (prob outside of armor increase, and cons) can be viable depending on tuning.

I can see AD being fairly strong when you get it on 1 min timer instead of 1.5m, as we generally don't use x:30s cds for things, plus it can have fairly good synergy with Painful truth (1 min cd dps boost on aoe)

AS seems somewhat underwhelming, but possibly really good with +bounce artifact on pure aoe (doubt it'll be that good outside of 5 mans)

Sotr seems really strong in terms of total mitigation value.

Max health is possibly good, since it's our weakness, but prob less good than others due to changes in dmg patterns.

J is good for uptime and some portion of dmg, and hotr might be good with BH for dps.

Finally LotP might be rly good with our tier bonus and cons + lotp tuning.

[Deleted]

You're presuming that Blizzard will finally manage to solve the issue of not being able to challenge tanks and healers without having bosses hit for 50% or more of max HP. All thus-far occurring evidence points to them being constitutionally incapable of getting this right for more than a half-tier at a time.

EHP should still be assumed to be Prot's absolute largest issue in raids until solid proof on live servers is obtained to the contrary, IMHO.

[celinamuna]

You're presuming that Blizzard will finally manage to solve the issue of not being able to challenge tanks and healers without having bosses hit for 50% or more of max HP. All thus-far occurring evidence points to them being constitutionally incapable of getting this right for more than a half-tier at a time.

EHP should still be assumed to be Prot's absolute largest issue in raids until solid proof on live servers is obtained to the contrary, IMHO.

on another hand, there's a number of other tanks who are much worse off than we are, so i think we'll be fine compared to them.
Esp since BH is kind of based for surviving AAs.

[jsantana2418]

Very few of us like how the class plays. We're mostly okay with the removal of HoPo. Class plays like anus, basically 0 interaction outside of the stupid hamfisted judgement shit. People will argue that SoTR charges is a resource, but you should laugh at those people and call them silly.

Seraphim returning is a step in the right direction. Whether's it's strong or not currently doesn't matter so I won't bother mentioning it. It does get some passive defense from a few artifact traits but otherwise it's the same "put SoTR up" with a boring playstyle.

Thanks for the input, I came to the same conclusion when reading over the abilities, talents, etc and watching a few videos inlines with what you said, 'boring playstyle.' Hopefully, the devs can either introduce or use mana(maybe HoPo) to bring meaning into the rotation being three months away from launch. I believe they're likely got something in the works because some of the talents placement, especially knight templar location vs divine steed being a level 87 ability. So far, prot warrior looks polished and engaging playstyle to compliment the new animation.

[Taeldorian]

Thanks for the input, I came to the same conclusion when reading over the abilities, talents, etc and watching a few videos inlines with what you said, 'boring playstyle.' Hopefully, the devs can either introduce or use mana(maybe HoPo) to bring meaning into the rotation being three months away from launch. I believe they're likely got something in the works because some of the talents placement, especially knight templar location vs divine steed being a level 87 ability. So far, prot warrior looks polished and engaging playstyle to compliment the new animation.

Prot warrior is the same as it's always been, there isn't anything that's really all that new honestly. It feels similar to WoD. Prot (paladin) is definitely boring but atm it's really good compared to the other tanks. Vengeance, Bear and Prot (paladin) seem to be at the top currently but things are always subject to change.

I also which they'd change either prot paladin or prot warrior into something else in terms of the names.

[jsantana2418]

Prot warrior is the same as it's always been, there isn't anything that's really all that new honestly. It feels similar to WoD. Prot (paladin) is definitely boring but atm it's really good compared to the other tanks. Vengeance, Bear and Prot (paladin) seem to be at the top currently but things are always subject to change.

I also which they'd change either prot paladin or prot warrior into something else in terms of the names.

Must be a mindset thing in knowing that even though they brought back the damage taken a % of your hp generates rage and lower the amount gain through abilties at least the rotation feels good i.e. shield slam proc reset from devastate and spend that rage between ignored pain and shield block or channel it into focused rage for a big ol shield slam hit, I like the feel of build/spend resource bar vs charge system and the interaction of abilities that play into it. Prot pally looks flashy and sturdy but appears to have a boring playstyle. What alternative names would you give to either prot pally and prot warrior?

[Taeldorian]

Must be a mindset thing in knowing that even though they brought back the damage taken a % of your hp generates rage and lower the amount gain through abilties at least the rotation feels good i.e. shield slam proc reset from devastate and spend that rage between ignored pain and shield block or channel it into focused rage for a big ol shield slam hit, I like the feel of build/spend resource bar vs charge system and the interaction of abilities that play into it. Prot pally looks flashy and sturdy but appears to have a boring playstyle. What alternative names would you give to either prot pally and prot warrior?

Very true, prot paladin is flashier than ever and it's also in a good spot raid wise/dungeon wise but it is boring. I've been testing holy a lot more recently but when I did try prot it was pretty boring. Extremely strong tank though, bear/prot (paladin) seems to be a good set up.

No idea what alternative names I'd give. I'll need to think on that a bit more but having two specs with the same names is annoying, same thing with holy priest/holy paladin. When they said a while ago they were changing names I figured this was the kind of stuff they were changing.