Why would people rather have a Vanilla server than a WotlK server?

[chase_the_mofo]

Cos game was hard in vanilla unlike other expansions, simple as that.

[Alski]

As someone who played from Vanilla to cata, if i had a choice i would go for a TBC server.

[F1reheart]

What is the point of that?

The moment they would transition from Vanilla to TBC, people would start cryinig for "muh Vanilla feels"

...because vanilla would still be there, and a new tbc server would be out?

[Eleccybubb]

I'd prefer Wrath honestly. LFD is fine imo and Wrath had the mixture of easy and hard leveling as well as decent endgame content.

[Dhrizzle]

I'd like to play casually, which to me means dungeons/professions/world content, and vanilla was the best for that. Vanilla had tons of awesome dungeons with lots of variety, depth and epicness, and which could easily fill my time. WotLK dungeons were ok, but more of a side-game, and LFG made everything into a mindless mass pulling zerg fest. Vanilla had a huge world, while WotLK was a smaller island (although I like the environments).

You had to be a pretty hardcore casual to PuG in Vanilla as it could take an hour or so just to get a group together, especially if you played anything other than a warrior, healer or mage. Then, depending on the group, it could take an hour or two to finish the dungeon. Also, whilst there were lots of dungeons in Vanilla mostly you'd be running Strat Undead, Scholo or UBRS as that's where the pants, head and robe for tier 0 drop. Occasionally there might be groups for BRD (which takes forever,) Scarlet Strat or LBRS. The other three lvl 60 dungeons were all in Dire Maul, far from anywhere groups organise (especially for Alliance) and it can take longer travelling there than most dungeons take to complete these days.

[Morbownz]

Vanilla and to a degree TBC were dramatically different in design from the rest of the expansions. Wotlk and everything else follows the same basic formula with varying degrees of success.

^Pretty much this.

[Varaben]

Because of different tastes. Some people loved Cataclysm, some people loved TBC.

I would argue that Wrath was the first expansion where the sub numbers flatlined, thus it turned the corner from WoW's growth period into decline, making it clearly less appealing than the prior two expansions.

There are a lot of reasons for subs to have flatlined and that debate has been done enough times. The OP has some serious rose-tinted glasses though, as there were problems in Wrath.

[Dhrizzle]

There was lag time involved in how LFG destroyed communities.

Without LFG, players are forced to interact and communities are built and friends lists get really long. Then LFG comes in and people don't need to make new friendships but the current ones still exist. Gradually, those friends built up in Vanilla and BC move on and are not replaced. The community slowly falls apart but it takes over a year or so. Subs hover at a plateau for a while but eventually begin a large decline in Cata.

Communities died before LFG, it was face-roll content that killed socialising in PuGs. Even before then socialising could often be limited to spamming trade-chat or typing /who warrior (lvl.) I know for a fact I was on the friendslists of people who only wanted me to tank dungeons for them, and there were people I only spoke to when assembling groups.

[QuiksLE]

...because vanilla would still be there, and a new tbc server would be out?

But there would not be a vanilla server, since it has been turned into a TBC server?

[Eleccybubb]

...because vanilla would still be there, and a new tbc server would be out?

You realize there were a lot of class/talent changes in the transition yes? Just make 2 separate servers. TBC is not vanilla. Vanilla is Vanilla.

[Faenskap]

WotLK was the sweet spot. From pvp to pve, from hardcore to casual. Patch 3.3.5 was icing on the cake.

Shifting away from WotLK formula was a huge mistake, WotLK literally pleased everybody and that's why it had over 12 million subscribers, I don't remember disliking anything, it simply was the best.

From the dialogue and the background story, the music, the atmosphere, villain and artwork. Everything fits perfectly. The gameplay was good and the community really was different in Wrath. There was no LFR. No cross-realm zones.

Naxx, ICC, Ulduar, TOC, the chopper, the mammoths, beautiful zones with amazing musical ambience and great quest lines. Wintergrasp was fun, VoA was a neat way to gear up, especially for alts.

The accessibility ICC had was amazing, you could pug it and still down things because Ventrilo etc.

I can honestly say I haven't even had half the amount of fun in the game as I did in wrath. Chain running dungeons back then was a blast. the 10 man raid was fun and manageable with a group of friends. It was a total blast. Pugs were amazing.

Class mechanics were a lot more fun, warriors in particular, stance dancing made them incredibly fun.

There was a lot of class uniqueness, not everyone had interrupts, not everyone had dispel protection, unfortunately Blizzard ruined everything with their "Bring the Player Not the Class" philosophy.

I agree with most of this. I didn't like Ulduar though. I had a tremendous amount of fun doing spamming dungeons (especially after LFG) and raids. Things I didn't like about WotLK:

- some gear sets are just ugly as fuck (other are cool though!)
- Borean Tundra. Fuck me, that's a shithole
- In hindsight, many of the dungeons are so shitty you just want to leave upon seeing the loading screen, and also Utgarde Keep for 5 levels
- Ulduar. Just didn't appeal
- Wintergrasp - wtf is this shit

Apart from that, I enjoyed myself a lot during the time! I started in very early TBC, and what made me like WotLK more than its predecessor is probably:

- tabards that gave rep in dungeons
- hybrids/non-heavy CC classes and specs could work fine in heroics! (I never did heroic Magister's terrace because enh shaman). Could also mention that I'm not interested in dungeons taking 1-2 hours to complete. I prefer as fast as possible - that's fun!
- LFD - great addition to the game
- pugging. I pugged a lot and I had so much fun. Imo, a lot of the pugging culture was ruined with the arrival of cata
- alt friendly (well, better than TBC at least)
- Howling Fjord <3

[Sartorius 01]

Wrath of the Lich king had the best Lore , content , environment , and music .. as simple as that. i don't care about other game mechanics.

[Kolvarg]

Why not both? =P

Or Vanilla then progressing to TBC and after that to WotLK?

[Ciddy]

Because the content of WOTLK is still in the game.
While Vanilla was removed when they did Cataclysm.

Pretty much this. Aside from mostly minor changes over the years, you can still see Northrend in the live game the same way you did when it was current content. Outland and BC content have also barely been touched since BC, so you can do the same there. Sure, it's not _exactly_ the same as it used to be because of things like nerfs and class changes over the years (maybe an NPC that took 3 players to kill in BC could pretty easily be solo content today), but at least the quests/zones/NPCs are still there and haven't been changed.

But Cataclysm drastically changed the old world and 1-60 content. Towns were wiped out, zones were flooded or broken apart, NPCs were killed off left and right, quests were changed or flat-out removed/replaced, etc. There's no way to play through 1-60 the way it used to be.

[HappyCola]

You had to be a pretty hardcore casual to PuG in Vanilla

I wasn't a "hardcore" casual by any means and had no trouble PuGing. Building a group, getting to a dungeon and killing some bosses could take a few hours depending on the instance and day/time. But building groups wasn't something that everyone had to do, often just the group leader would be in a city while I was out in the world while the group filled up. The expectation (for casuals at least) wasn't that you'd run multiple dungeons every night; rather I'd do a few per week, maybe multiple on weekends. It was just paced more slowly, and I ended up getting more enjoyment out of it than LFG ever gave me.

[TwoNineMarine]

I'd honestly love both.

Hell if they made a realm for each expansion I'd be happy. I loved the feel of Vanilla. The excitement and adventure was real.

Wrath was great as well. I loved the amount of content. Always felt like there was something to do.

[zorkuus]

I want a MoP server. Give me my candy because I said so.

[Vaelorian]

Communities died before LFG, it was face-roll content that killed socialising in PuGs. Even before then socialising could often be limited to spamming trade-chat or typing /who warrior (lvl.) I know for a fact I was on the friendslists of people who only wanted me to tank dungeons for them, and there were people I only spoke to when assembling groups.

Communities also take a hit when difficulty drops to nil. True. But saying it already started with that and is the main culprit is nonsense. Who the fuck was in /tradechat anyway apart from spamming for a PUG/attempting to recruit (and failing)/or selling an actual rare item? Socialising was not done in /trade. That part was almost 0. What came after /trade is where people socialised. So it functioned as a catalyst - spam trade - get /w about joining in on activity X - talk during activity X.

And seriously... the only reason you were on peoples friendlist was because you could tank? Don't you think that most relationships online start like that? Why else would I bother with you if you didn't have something that I liked about you.
If I like your tanking (it is good) I will be more willing to socialise with you and perhaps put you on my friendslist if your responses to my comments are what I like.

I means seriously... lets say you are good at tennis right? You go to your tennis club and there are a few people that have seen you tennis (alone or with others) and know your skills. They are looking to complete their "4 man" and feel that you would complement that group. You get asked to join their team solely based on your capability to complement their team - atleast at first. If you turn out to suck, I am sure you won't be invited much in the future. If you do actually complement them, they will be investing in a relationship with you.

"Isn't that selfish, greedy, needy...etc etc etc?" No it is fucking human behavior - it is the base of almost all friendships.

[F1reheart]

You realize there were a lot of class/talent changes in the transition yes? Just make 2 separate servers. TBC is not vanilla. Vanilla is Vanilla.

Try reading it again.

But there would not be a vanilla server, since it has been turned into a TBC server?

.......no. Try reading it again, vanilla will still exist while a new TBC server launches.

[McNeil]

I'd actually love to play WotLK again, and I agree its the sweet spot of the game. But its still a lot different than Vanilla. And it still feels a lot fresher, while Vanilla actually feels ancient. While WotLK is my favorite expansion, I'd still rather want to try out Vanilla again for the sake of being in a real MMORPG. WotLK is still very much in that genre, but its also where the queuefest started which made the world feel obsolete.

We should just have a legacy server for Vanilla and every expansion. I'm sure some people would even play Cata or MoP again.