Sweden's city Malmö going on its knees

[Deleted]

I do. I also see the looming change - the growth of immigrant numbers in Europe while native populations stagnate, if not decline.

At this point I don`t even know how to talk to you. The rise of non-Swedish persons in Sweden from single digits to double digits ought to prove that.
The rise of non-French, non-British persons in those countries from single digits to double digits ought to prove that.

Oh, that wouldn`t be the problem. But it`s the tip of the iceberg. That`s how ratchet gets turned. That`s how various regionalisms (Gaelic) went out - they were simply displaced.
As for regions - Birmingham is one example. Look up the demographics of the place.

Productive member=/integration. My country has gypsies that work, pay taxes yet can`t string a single coherent sentence together.
And no, they are not integrated. But that is not even the issue - assimilation is the end goal. And they are not ready to give up their ways of life in favour of German mainstream. I can`t blame them for that. See previous examples I gave for ethnic minorities (in Western countries, soon majority) being insular and unresponsive to the mainstream of the host country (Turks in Bulgaria for example).

Yes we dont do kids anymore. That happens with an improved quality of life. Same happens to immigrants coming after a while. Having said that, we are still 500 millions and we're not disappearing anytime soon cause what 2-5-8 millions migrants are coming over. Note how I specifically said 2-5-8 millions even though we got a fraction of that so far.

The rise of non swedish people in sweden brought them to a staggering 20%. Uh that's it it's over. Nuke Sweden and move on.

So you'd have an increasingly diverse society. Your problem being? Some of them are going to integrate and some of them aren't. Have you an alternative?

Integration is a two way street, and the whole thing has been analysed for the last 50 years+. People are critical for the way things were handled in germany and france (for example) for a reason. Some are not going to integrate. Some are. As long as they respect the law of the land I personally have no issue with what they wear or the language they speak. Respect our society and you have a spot in. Simple. By the time 2nd and 3rd generations are out even more will be integrated. It's not a fixed number "WE GET 8 MILLION IMMIGRANTS SO WE HAVE 8 MILLION NON INTEGRATED SAVAGES". It's a variable and it's up to us as well to make sure we do our job.

[Paklaaji]

Now, if we would spread them out rather equally, things would suddenly look a bit different.

Your leader said ''refugees welcome''.
You fucking pay for them. You host them. No one else on the continent agreed to Merkels insanity.

Every one of the posturing notables simpering ‘refugees welcome’ should be asked if he or she will take a refugee family into his or her home for an indefinite period, and pay for their food, medical treatment and education.

If so, they mean it. If not, they are merely demanding that others pay and make room so that they can experience a self-righteous glow. No doubt the same people are also sentimental enthusiasts for the ‘living wage’, and ‘social housing’, when in fact open borders are steadily pushing wages down and housing costs up.

As William Blake rightly said: ‘He who would do good to another must do it in minute particulars. General good is the plea of the scoundrel, hypocrite and flatterer.’

[Deleted]

Europe doesn't import these people.
They show up at our doorsteps.
Importing would mean to literally go and get them.

And that these people cannot assimilate is false too. There's a history to be applied to Europe.
It's been subjected to invasions that left people behind that mingled with the natives.
It engaged in colonization too, which brought people from the various colonies to Europe, living there too.

What we have instead is an influx of people, an unprecedented amount of refugees. That causes some culture shock, on both sides.
But over time, if some stay, it will merge and blend together again. Just as it did before countless times.

Fair enough about importing them, and I wish they wouldn't show up on our doorstep. However, even the non-recent refugee ones hate european culture.

In a recent survey from ICM, and these people are not even refugees, integration does not happen.

In a recent Survey done by ICM on British Muslims:

52% believe being gay should be illegal
25% want Sharia law
40% said wives should always obey their husband
27% said they had some sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo attacks in paris

Hell, even the so called experts that are key in facilitating this are surprised by the results: "Trevor Philips, former head of the Equality & Human Rights Commission, said: "I thought Europe's Muslims would gradually blend into Britain's diverse landscape. I should have known better."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36016708
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...ity-sharia-law

This makes me very sad.

[Deleted]

What's stopping them is America and Australia not accepting refugees. Australias coast guard and border security routinely turn back boats of immigrants and refuse entry to immigrants who try to enter by plane.

It is NOT a question of how to get there.

Most of these migrants aren't poor people who left their home when the bombs fell on them. You don't even understand this much yet you keep posting. I'm losing my patience with you because you have so much catching up to do it's almost futile to try and educate you.

lol.
Have you seen Australia. A map of Australia that is. It's easy to guard your borders when you have a couple bottlenecks and the rest is open ocean.
It's a bit different over here. Nevermind the fact they they are sitting thousands of miles away.

What are you talking about... not poor people escaping from bombs... What exactly do you mean? Please do tell.

[Wildtree]

You clearly don`t know a lot about the European history.

Hints : Muslims populations in the Balkans (leftovers from previous invasions and conquests), Russians in the Baltics, Turks in Bulgaria, the whole Belgium issue... truly spectacular examples of two different cultures ''merging together''.
I could add at least 6 more, if you want.

Spain was invaded, Ottoman invasions, almost to Vienna's doorsteps.
Roman empire with enslaved population brought as far as Great Britain.
British empire, colonial natives brought into Europe. Same goes for Dutch, French, German, Portugal, Spain, Swedes,
all colonial powers.
All Crusades.
Medieval trading routes to the middle east and Asia.
Now what?

Every single time we've had people coming into Europe becoming part of what we are today as European nations.
Europe isn't some magic floating disc, that had never any other influences coming in.

[Deleted]

You dont think its different between posting your entire comment here in swedish or posting a source from a studie thats made in that country in swedish, as a reference? Feels like you are arguing now just for the sake of it.

There are swedish sources that talk about the topic in english. If you can't find a link in english just dont post it or post the relevant parts and translate.
Dropping a link in swedish is ridiculous.

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The post IS in english, so your point doesn't really stand.

Now if instead the prolem is that you don't trust the sources because they are written in a language you don't speak instead, that problem is on you alone.
There are two easy fixes to that:

1. You can either trust the people which actually speak that language.
2. Or it's time for you to learn a new one.

/peace

Of course. That sounds like a reasonable way to conduct a debate.

[Wildtree]

Fair enough about importing them, and I wish they wouldn't show up on our doorstep. However, even the non-recent refugee ones hate european culture.

In a recent survey from ICM, and these people are not even refugees, integration does not happen.

In a recent Survey done by ICM on British Muslims:

52% believe being gay should be illegal
25% want Sharia law
40% said wives should always obey their husband
27% said they had some sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo attacks in paris

Hell, even the so called experts that are key in facilitating this are surprised by the results: "Trevor Philips, former head of the Equality & Human Rights Commission, said: "I thought Europe's Muslims would gradually blend into Britain's diverse landscape. I should have known better."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36016708
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...ity-sharia-law

This makes me very sad.

That's something to be concerned about, of course.

[Deleted]

I really was in Malmö back in 2014, and I really did block that toilet. To use the bathroom you need to ask for the key ("customers only" the sign said), and it is on a big plastic handle so you can't just steal it. When I was there I respected the culture and laws, communicated in embarrassed and slowly spoken English (the only language I know), and really enjoyed my time there. I also did the same in Saudi Arabia (not the toilet) in 2012. Then I left.

What I can't understand is the European obsession with importing so many refugees with wildly different cultures, beliefs, and morality, who refuse to adhere to the culture and laws of the country that is in effect saving them, and just expecting the local population to somehow absorb this and deal with it, and calling anyone that speaks out about it a racist. It is just insane.

We're not really "importing" much. Since the crisis we have millions of people sitting in refugee camps on mediterranean coasts ready to be shipped. This isnt "canadian" immigration where they pick and choose. They come here because we destabilised countries that were vital for migration patterns.

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Why is that hypocritical? Immigration policies should be based around benefitting the country.

Which they do considering the demographic crisis you've had since 1968.

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Stop lying.
They concentrate themselves.

It has been argued for years that integration works both ways. Germany and France post ww2 are good examples.

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Your leader said ''refugees welcome''.
You fucking pay for them. You host them. No one else on the continent agreed to Merkels insanity.

What Merkel said has ZERO impact on this crisis, which has been happening since gheddafi was removed, YEARS before merkel said anything.

[Roggendorf]

The city has fallen into a vicious spiral, "rich" or shall we call it normal swedes moving out to the surrounding small towns/villages and work in Malmö, but its outside Malmö tax assessment area, the tax base shrink, therefore the city get worse service that motivate more peopel to move to the surrounding small towns/villages.

The price for housing in the surrounding small towns/villages goes up, that prevent the "poor" (tex new immigrants) to get housing there so they move to Malmö there the price have fallen, the city is burdened by many "poor" peopel who need public helpe, that burden economy therefore the city have worse service, that motivate "rich" peopel to move out.... repeat untill the situation today.

at the same time small towns/villages around Malmö experiencing an economic boost, they get in more in taxes, which means that they can expand or improve service, hence more "rich" peopel want to move there from Malmö.

Now I live in Malmö, healthcare, public transportation, sanitation etc do work reasonably well (much better than in most countries I visited) but the critical point is the elementary school, there are so many immigrants children or second generation immigrants in Malmö and the city is segregated so some school lack ethnic Swedes (goes past one everyday on the way to work) and its not Swedich the kids speaking, poor children, they will have a very hard start in life, lack the ability to speak intelligibility Swedish and have not lern what is culturally accepted or what is not.

One more probelm is that Swedish school system expects that parents help there children with homework "teach at home" attempts to explain an alphabet you do not master, now imagen you are not a scandinvian and se A Å Ä....

My optician in Malmo is a arab from Lebanon, he was very keen that his daughters did go to a "Swedish" school so they learn Swedish as there first language. Quit intresting how he did praised Malmö, everything was so well organized, everything works no rubbish on the streets and no one tried to kill him, the civil war in Libanon must have been brutal.....

Be careful, you can get arrested and charged with racism and hate speech for these sorts of bigoted comments!

(It is ironic that your thoughts would turn to the Lebanese civil war. I wonder how many Swedes even have weapons, compared to the non-Muslims of Lebanon? The first few months of your war will be sad to watch.)

[Paklaaji]

Which they do considering the demographic crisis you've had since 1968.

There penty of nations and countries that don`t indulge in self-destructive tendencies that have poor demographic performance.
It`s pretty hilarious that Germany is willing to waste 100 billion dollars on these welfare migrants as opposed to bettering terms for natives and their families.

Says a lot about their priorities. Damned country, damned nation.

[Deleted]

Fair enough about importing them, and I wish they wouldn't show up on our doorstep. However, even the non-recent refugee ones hate european culture.

In a recent survey from ICM, and these people are not even refugees, integration does not happen.

In a recent Survey done by ICM on British Muslims:

52% believe being gay should be illegal
25% want Sharia law
40% said wives should always obey their husband
27% said they had some sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo attacks in paris

Hell, even the so called experts that are key in facilitating this are surprised by the results: "Trevor Philips, former head of the Equality & Human Rights Commission, said: "I thought Europe's Muslims would gradually blend into Britain's diverse landscape. I should have known better."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36016708
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...ity-sharia-law

This makes me very sad.

Yeah religious people tend to be against gay. So? It's kinda normal.
There are several version of sharia law. Sharia Law doesnt necessarily mean "stoning women". Having said that I strongly disagree with the concept of having sharia law. And so does the 75% of british muslims it seems.

All in all these aren't worrying numbers at all.

[Deleted]

Which they do considering the demographic crisis you've had since 1968.

It would be beneficial if they had the same employment rates as Swedes, yes. But they don't. Which is why it isn't beneficial.

[hydrium]

Yepp. But let's see how long it takes before people start making this about evil socialism and immigration. Why the hell OP thinks this deserves to be discussed on an international forum, where people don't know jack about Malmö if they ain't from Sweden, I'll never understand.
This ain't worth a thread here.

Apparently you believe that cities exist inside a bubble and are only influenced by their inner workings.

[Deleted]

There penty of nations and countries that don`t indulge in self-destructive tendencies that have poor demographic performance.
It`s pretty hilarious that Germany is willing to waste 100 billion dollars on these welfare migrants as opposed to bettering terms for natives and their families.

Says a lot about their priorities. Damned country, damned nation.

Yes there are plenty. And they still have a demographic crisis incoming because no matter what you do or how much you help, with an improvement of quality of life we do less kids.

[Paklaaji]

What Merkel said has ZERO impact on this crisis, which has been happening since gheddafi was removed, YEARS before merkel said anything.

Lies.

And you`re talking about two different things. One is massive influx of migrants in to Europe in summer/autumn 2015 and the other issue is the humanitarian crisis on the periphery of Europe (migrant influx up until her announcement in to Europe proper was negligible).

[Deleted]

It would be beneficial if they had the same employment rates as Swedes, yes. But they don't. Which is why it isn't beneficial.

Change policies

[Deleted]

Change policies

Yeah, taking less unskilled immigrants sounds like a good idea.

[Deleted]

Lies.

And you`re talking about two different things. One is massive influx of migrants in to Europe in summer/autumn 2015 and the other issue is the humanitarian crisis on the periphery of Europe (migrant influx up until her announcement in to Europe proper was negligible).

What lies? Italy has been getting boats weekly at times daily for the last 4-5 years.
Why ON EARTH would they be two different things?! Please do tell.

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Yeah, taking less unskilled immigrants sounds like a good idea.

Good luck with a demographic crisis in 40 years.

[Deleted]

Good luck with a demographic crisis in 40 years.

Good luck with economic problems for the state from taking too many unskilled immigrants who can't even get a job.

[Wildtree]

It would be beneficial if they had the same employment rates as Swedes, yes. But they don't. Which is why it isn't beneficial.

Refugees aren't allowed to work in Germany btw.
They are not immigrants, as said before. They are asylum seekers. Their status has to be approved first.
That process still exists. It's entirely possible that many of the refugees are actually denied asylum.
Which is a whole different ballgame, and subject to the controversies fought over in Germany.