Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
LastLast
  1. #121
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    So I guess all the other people who have actually had software problems and crashes and other stuff having nothing to do with the spying issues, were all lying or don't actually exist?
    No, issues exist​ just like the do on Windows 7 and ANY other operating system ever created.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuckels View Post
    Don't want to, hate windows 10, feel like I have to for DX12 support tho so rip.
    Why do you hate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I reverted to 7 but dl'd the iso for 10 just to have it for the future. I'm hoping that by the time I have no choice but to upgrade windows 10 will suck less.
    What sucks about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Windows 10 is better technically speaking (memory management, startup, disk management etc), so unless you are the sort of person who hates change there is no reason to stick to Windows 7.
    This ^^
    Last edited by mmocca5d152c38; 2016-05-25 at 12:09 PM.

  2. #122
    Windows 10 is better technically speaking (memory management, startup, disk management etc), so unless you are the sort of person who hates change there is no reason to stick to Windows 7.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  3. #123
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    No, issues exist​ just like the do on Windows 7 and ANY other operating system ever created.
    Well, if they have no issues with Windows 7 because those issues have mostly been patched out throughout the years, but will have issues with Windows 10 because it's still such a new OS, why exactly should they upgrade now? Just because it's free?

  4. #124
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    Well, if they have no issues with Windows 7 because those issues have mostly been patched out throughout the years, but will have issues with Windows 10 because it's still such a new OS, why exactly should they upgrade now? Just because it's free?
    I've run Windows 8 and 10 since BETA, only in early BETA did I have any issues. Those were mainly software conflicts, which has since been fixed. You shouldn't upgrade "just because it's free", you should upgrade because of the numerous improvements that come with Windows 10, some of them mentioned in the post above you.

    In the end of the day, I couldn't care less if you're on 10 or 7, though I do prefer more people being on updated and patched systems so there is less chance of bad stuff spreading to others. Also, I bet most, not all, OS related issues are user errors. People don't like hearing that because most of them consider themselves experts.

  5. #125
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    you should upgrade because of the numerous improvements that come with Windows 10
    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    I do prefer more people being on updated and patched systems so there is less chance of bad stuff spreading to others
    Well, if those things were true, I'd agree with you, and in that case, it's just such a shame that Microsoft has completely, utterly and royally fucked up this situation by forcing the OS down the throats of people. Whoever there decided that instead of doing good publicity for the OS, they'd rather just force it on people, by hilariously dumb tricks like removing cancellation buttons and forcing the update to start even when the update screen is closed by the X in the corner, and so on, should definitely get fired immediately.

    They decided to take the Orwellian route, both by openly spying on people who install their OS, as well as deciding for people what OS they should use, and it has come back to bite them in the ass badly.

  6. #126
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    Well, if those things were true, I'd agree with you, and in that case, it's just such a shame that Microsoft has completely, utterly and royally fucked up this situation by forcing the OS down the throats of people. Whoever there decided that instead of doing good publicity for the OS, they'd rather just force it on people, by hilariously dumb tricks like removing cancellation buttons and forcing the update to start even when the update screen is closed by the X in the corner, and so on, should definitely get fired immediately.

    They decided to take the Orwellian route, both by openly spying on people who install their OS, as well as deciding for people what OS they should use, and it has come back to bite them in the ass badly.
    You do realize it's the same company, "spying on you", that's behind Windows 7, right? I guess I'm more curious as to which issues and crashed you have, making you switch back or stay with Windows 7.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    What sucks about it?
    Aesthetic issues:

    The flat design and ugly icons (even the calculator looks awful) are just jarring and unpleasant to look at. I spend a lot of time in front of my computer and I need to like what I am looking at. All the "themes" they provide essentially look the same whereas in 7 we could look like old classic windows, or use the new aero theme with its glassy faux 3-d style. Absolutely awful icons as if we live in the era of 8bit displays (only rivaled by those in Windows 3.1 from 1992). The UI can hardly be configured at all in Windows 10 essentially (barring using 3rd party mods which can have stability issues).

    Under the hood issues:

    Microsoft officially admits that automatic spying cannot be disabled in Windows 10. http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke.../#23cd6ab92f4a

    Microsoft's EULA grants Microsoft the rights to use any of your content related to the services like Bing, Cortana, OneDrive or Skype: "you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content".

    You've got no real control over crucial features of the OS.

    Forced upgrades you cannot opt out of (read horror stories about KB3081424).

    Safe Mode used to be a single F8 key press on boot in every Windows version from 95 to 7. No longer the case.

    Some Control Widgets are spread between the two Control Panels which is utterly confusing (e.g. Users Management).

    While this doesn't personally affect me, Windows 10 sucks terribly if you are an unlucky user of a metered Internet connection.

    It uses your free bandwidth to distribute updates to other users nearby you.

    Windows 10 installs apps behind your back without your approval.


    I'm not saying Windows 10 doesn’t represent a potentially valuable upgrade, the issue is that the company has forgotten the fundamental right of customers to choose. Many choices have been eliminated outright and dressing up what ‘choices’ remain as ‘you can just keep saying No’ is a facade everyone should see through.

    Right now Windows 10 is still pretty new and it launched with a surprisingly large number of bugs which you won’t find in Windows 7 or Windows 8. Among these were disappearing icons from the taskbar, Start Menu lock-ups, Windows Store download bugs, copy and paste errors, problems with audio and more. By contrast Windows 7 is pretty much rock solid these days. Updates may have already addressed those win10 bugs, I can't be sure myself.

    My hope is that down the road, Windows 10 will get more customization options and choice returned to the user on how to handle updates and manage privacy. I have 4 years to wait to and see before support for 7 ends and that still doesn't mean i cant use 7 beyond that.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Aesthetic issues:

    The flat design and ugly icons (even the calculator looks awful) are just jarring and unpleasant to look at. I spend a lot of time in front of my computer and I need to like what I am looking at. All the "themes" they provide essentially look the same whereas in 7 we could look like old classic windows, or use the new aero theme with its glassy faux 3-d style. Absolutely awful icons as if we live in the era of 8bit displays (only rivaled by those in Windows 3.1 from 1992). The UI can hardly be configured at all in Windows 10 essentially (barring using 3rd party mods which can have stability issues).

    Pretty sure all of this can be changed to match your tastes. I am sorry that you do not like what the majority likes.

    Under the hood issues:

    Microsoft officially admits that automatic spying cannot be disabled in Windows 10. http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke.../#23cd6ab92f4a
    They just want data to analyze to make Windows better. If they do not know HOW people are using it, how can they make the experience better? By guessing? Look where guessing got them with Windows 8. They learned from that and made 10 more like 7, now they want to learn more so they can continue to improve your experience. Not really the same thing as spying.

    Microsoft's EULA grants Microsoft the rights to use any of your content related to the services like Bing, Cortana, OneDrive or Skype: "you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content".
    Then don't use those things?

    You've got no real control over crucial features of the OS.
    Like what?

    Forced upgrades you cannot opt out of (read horror stories about KB3081424).
    Obviously, they have some QA work to do here to prevent ad stuff like this going out in the first place.

    Safe Mode used to be a single F8 key press on boot in every Windows version from 95 to 7. No longer the case.
    I honestly can not remember the last time I actually had to boot in to Safe Mode. When I did, I did not remember that it was F8 and had to look it up anyway. So it changed, no big deal.

    Some Control Widgets are spread between the two Control Panels which is utterly confusing (e.g. Users Management).
    Well, Now that they are gathering data on how people actually use Windows, they can start to improve some of this stuff instead of just guessing.

    While this doesn't personally affect me, Windows 10 sucks terribly if you are an unlucky user of a metered Internet connection.
    Yeah, this does suck pretty bad. Hopefully they do something about it. Really though, this affects such a small number of people nowadays.

    It uses your free bandwidth to distribute updates to other users nearby you.
    If I don't need the bandwidth at the time, who cares?

    Windows 10 installs apps behind your back without your approval.
    This too is pretty shitty, depending on what those apps are and what they do.


    I'm not saying Windows 10 doesn’t represent a potentially valuable upgrade, the issue is that the company has forgotten the fundamental right of customers to choose. Many choices have been eliminated outright and dressing up what ‘choices’ remain as ‘you can just keep saying No’ is a facade everyone should see through.

    Right now Windows 10 is still pretty new and it launched with a surprisingly large number of bugs which you won’t find in Windows 7 or Windows 8. Among these were disappearing icons from the taskbar, Start Menu lock-ups, Windows Store download bugs, copy and paste errors, problems with audio and more. By contrast Windows 7 is pretty much rock solid these days. Updates may have already addressed those win10 bugs, I can't be sure myself.

    My hope is that down the road, Windows 10 will get more customization options and choice returned to the user on how to handle updates and manage privacy. I have 4 years to wait to and see before support for 7 ends and that still doesn't mean i cant use 7 beyond that.
    See bold.....

  9. #129
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    Once again, I must point out - do you know how much of your privacy is actually given up every time you walk outside, or go into a business, or make a phone call, or go to work? Your company owns your files, your email, and the computer/tablet/phone you use. You are recorded in stores. You are recorded when you are in certain places outside. And let's not even get into the phone calls you make. You really think no one can eavesdrop? Plus, you leave tracks everywhere you go online - more than you think you do.

    So please, show me how Windows 10's privacy policies are so much worse than what you face every day.
    Go ahead. Use it if you want, not stopping you. There are tools and tips that enable you to avoid tracking for example. Don’t play the brainwashed citizen who has no power...stop giving the corporations power over you. They may have alot of info on me already, but I’m not signing over everything. There are alternatives, why shouldn’t I use them?
    Last edited by mmoc1647d17dd8; 2016-05-25 at 03:30 PM.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Well I haven't had any info stolen yet so I don't see an issue with it. Also nearly all of the bloatware is removable like any pc that comes with it. Also I would hardly call being given their most recent OS for free "nothing".
    You aren't being given it for nothing, you are data to be sold to companies time and time again and MS will make more money over time from this and selling targeting ads than they would from a single purchase.

  11. #131
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    You do realize it's the same company, "spying on you", that's behind Windows 7, right?
    Well, design teams change, leadership changes, circumstances change, company policies change, and so on. What Windows 7 does has been looked into for years now, by people who have specifically set out to find faults in it, and find any wrongdoing on M$'s part, so if there was something really nefarious going on with Windows 7, we'd most likely know about it by now. Windows 10 on the other hand is still brand new, and those kinds of criticisms came out immediately after people noticed that stuff.

    However, I'm fully aware that it's the same company, and that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that they've shot themselves in the foot by making all of that which has been criticized so boldly out in the open and thus brought it to the attention of millions upon millions of people who might have gone on with their lives happily unaware of Windows doing all these things.

    It'll be interesting to see how the market share changes once this free period is over and all the people who were going to upgrade have done so. A month ago, Windows 10 held 15% to XP's 10% and 7's 48%, and that's an abysmal failure, when they're basically giving it away for free. However, I'm sure it has to rise from that to somewhere like 20-25% at least, but that'd still leave, most likely, 7 as the leading OS.

    I mean, it has to raise from 15% because they've started shoving 10 down people's throats by such force now, that it's basically just happening automatically whether you want it or not.

    It'd be interesting though, if millions of people suddenly decided that hey, we didn't want your fucking Windows 10; it's a separate product from the one we bought (7 or 8.1), and thus there's no way you'll just be forcefully upgrading our software into a different software completely without our express consent, and started a class action lawsuit against M$. Then, as evidence, it would be shown how they've used all kinds of dirty tricks to force the upgrades on people.

    I bet that'd chap their asses over there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    I guess I'm more curious as to which issues and crashed you have, making you switch back or stay with Windows 7.
    Will you ask all the hundreds of millions of people who reverted back to 7/8.1 or didn't upgrade to 10 in the first place the same thing? Or are you just specifically interested in me personally? In which case, eww.

    I didn't want to upgrade to 7. Or 8.1. I was happy with my XP Pro. I was waiting for the next windows that would come after 8.1. I was excited about 10, although a bit wary at first. Still excited about shit like Cortana. Then the bad news started to flood in. Wouldn't get Cortana in Finland for some asinine fucking reason. All the supposed spying stuff. All the problems with games and software. Then the douchebaggery by M$, hiding the bullshit GWX upgrade nag screen on different updates, then starting to force the upgrade on people without their knowledge or consent.

    So yeah. No thanks. I'll go to 2020 with 7 and then see what's what, and quite frankly, starting to consider switching to Linux more and more.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Vetis View Post
    You aren't being given it for nothing, you are data to be sold to companies time and time again and MS will make more money over time from this and selling targeting ads than they would from a single purchase.
    Did I pay to upgrade from 8.1? No so it was free.

  13. #133
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Well I haven't had any info stolen yet
    How would you know?

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    How would you know?
    Becuase I'm not an idiot. If Microsoft even thought about selling any info same with Apple and Google they would be in a heap of trouble.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Pretty sure all of this can be changed to match your tastes. I am sorry that you do not like what the majority likes.
    No it really can't. If there had been a "windows 7 theme" that actually looked like windows 7 it would have gone a long towards bringing me into the windows 10 fold. 3rd party mods can't even do it 100% microsoft could have. They chose not to. And not for nothing it's really hard to say what the "majority likes". Especially given that windows 7 holds over 47% of the OS market share while windows 10 holds a bit over 15% and windows 8.1 holds under 10% while 8 hold under 4%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    They just want data to analyze to make Windows better. If they do not know HOW people are using it, how can they make the experience better? By guessing? Look where guessing got them with Windows 8. They learned from that and made 10 more like 7, now they want to learn more so they can continue to improve your experience. Not really the same thing as spying.
    Here's a quote from the EULA most never read: "Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders)" so you're "they only want to make windows 10 better" line is purely ignorance talking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Then don't use those things?
    WTF? An essentially carte blanche release form to use MY content ROYALTY FREE? No fuck that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Like what?
    Like whether or not certain updates or apps get installed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Well, Now that they are gathering data on how people actually use Windows, they can start to improve some of this stuff instead of just guessing.
    More ignorance talking. Microsoft never "guessed" about how users were using windows. They have surveys and focus group testing for that sort of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    If I don't need the bandwidth at the time, who cares?
    First and foremost thats MY bandwidth that I pay for. Microsoft has more than enough money to pay for their own bandwidth. Secondly, microsoft doesn't know or care whether or not you need your bandwidth at the time. Windows 10 doesn't exactly ask you "hey is it convenient for us to leech your bandwidth for a few hours?" or give you any choice in the matter.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2016-05-25 at 04:09 PM.

  16. #136
    The Lightbringer Artorius's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Natal, Brazil
    Posts
    3,781
    I've read many flawed arguments about Windows 7 x Windows 10 but who'd think that someone actually prefers how W7 looks in comparison to 10...

    I mean, it's the exact same design but cleaner and without ugly gradients... Well, I guess people can like different things. Like someone already said, the "retro" look.

    Seriously though, you guys unhappy with Windows could start at least trying to use the alternatives so the market-share of said alternatives grow and companies start caring about having their software there.

    You can say "I'll switch to Linux when I can play my games there!" but this will never happen if you don't switch to begin with. Same applies to the other alternatives like the BSDs (which I'm fairly sure won't ever have native game support because it's only run on servers or at computers of real hipsters/highly technical guys) or even OSX. You ~can~ install OSX at your custom computer that doesn't have anything to do with Apple.

    But no, people complain and complain about Windows but don't do anything to try to change things. MS can do whatever they want because they have the whole market share.
    Last edited by Artorius; 2016-05-25 at 04:25 PM.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Artorius View Post
    I've read many flawed arguments about Windows 7 x Windows 10 but who'd think that someone actually prefers how W7 looks in comparison to 10...

    I mean, it's the exact same design but cleaner and without ugly gradients... Well, I guess people can like different things. Like someone already said, the "retro" look.

    Seriously though, you guys unhappy with Windows could start at least trying to use the alternatives so the market-share of said alternatives grow and companies start caring about having their software there.

    You can say "I'll switch to Linux when I can play my games there!" but this will never happen if you don't switch to begin with. Same applies to the other alternatives like the BSDs (which I'm fairly sure won't ever have native game support because it's only run on servers or at computers of real hipsters/highly technical guys) or even OSX. You ~can~ install OSX at your custom computer that doesn't have anything to do with Apple.

    But no, people complain and complain about Windows but don't do anything to try to change things. MS can do whatever they want because they have the whole market share.
    I think the gradients make the ui look nice and find the flat featureless sharp edges of 10 as ugly as you find the gradients. Having an option for both themes would have made it easier to integrate holdouts like myself because it would provide a more familiar looking environment. It's just one of several reasons why I never touched 8 or 8.1 and yet microsoft still doubled down with it a 3rd time with 10.

    I'll switch to 10 when it doesn't suck as far as I'm concerned. It's not my job to use something I don't like in the hopes that someday the devs will fix it. That's like paying a sub to wow when I am not having fun in the hopes the devs will one day make content that I find fun and rewarding to engage in.

    The only way to make change happen in today's world is to speak with your money. And right now if I were to use windows 10 that would validate microsoft's design decisions that I disagree with. If enough people say "no i am not buying 10" microsoft will HAVE to make changes. It's why windows 10 even exists in the first place since windows 8/8.1 couldn't break into the os marketshare enough. If everyone just jumped on the bandwagon they'd think everything they've done is perfect and change would be very slow in the coming.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2016-05-25 at 04:36 PM.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    No it really can't. If there had been a "windows 7 theme" that actually looked like windows 7 it would have gone a long towards bringing me into the windows 10 fold. 3rd party mods can't even do it 100% microsoft could have. They chose not to. And not for nothing it's really hard to say what the "majority likes". Especially given that windows 7 holds over 47% of the OS market share while windows 10 holds a bit over 15% and windows 8.1 holds under 10% while 8 hold under 4%.
    and their reasons for sticking to 7 have everything to do with aesthetics and nothing to do with privacy, right? Sorry, but 10 just looks and feels better.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Here's a quote from the EULA most never read: "Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders)" so you're "they only want to make windows 10 better" line is purely ignorance talking.
    A EULA is there to cover your ass. Doesn't mean they are actually going to use it. Heck, they are going to preserve my personal data? So if I my system dies and I did not have that data already backed up, I can get it back? That's actually great, they are preserving my data for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    WTF? An essentially carte blanche release form to use MY content ROYALTY FREE? No fuck that.
    So don't use those features.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    Like whether or not certain updates or apps get installed?
    Well, updates are there to help you. To make things better and to close loopholes. I do get that you should want more control, so if you do, get Pro/Enterprise. For the average user though, someone like my Dad or his friends who I have to help with computer issues all the time or my Mother-in-Law, just don't want to have to worry about it. They just want everything to work when they turn it on. Yeah, some updates break things, it happens. Once again, if you do not like it, you have the option to use Pro/Enterprise if you choose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    More ignorance talking. Microsoft never "guessed" about how users were using windows. They have surveys and focus group testing for that sort of thing.
    Yeah, because surveys and focus groups are an accurate representation of everyone. Nope, they are a way of guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    First and foremost thats MY bandwidth that I pay for. Microsoft has more than enough money to pay for their own bandwidth. Secondly, microsoft doesn't know or care whether or not you need your bandwidth at the time. Windows 10 doesn't exactly ask you "hey is it convenient for us to leech your bandwidth for a few hours?" or give you any choice in the matter.
    Then use Pro/Enterprise so you have control over it. That's called choice.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    and their reasons for sticking to 7 have everything to do with aesthetics and nothing to do with privacy, right? Sorry, but 10 just looks and feels better.
    Subjective

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    A EULA is there to cover your ass. Doesn't mean they are actually going to use it. Heck, they are going to preserve my personal data? So if I my system dies and I did not have that data already backed up, I can get it back? That's actually great, they are preserving my data for me.
    Ignorance and naivety

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    So don't use those features.
    Missing the point

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Well, updates are there to help you. To make things better and to close loopholes. I do get that you should want more control, so if you do, get Pro/Enterprise. For the average user though, someone like my Dad or his friends who I have to help with computer issues all the time or my Mother-in-Law, just don't want to have to worry about it. They just want everything to work when they turn it on. Yeah, some updates break things, it happens. Once again, if you do not like it, you have the option to use Pro/Enterprise if you choose.
    Why? I can just stick with 7 and be happier with my OS in that case. 7 works when I turn it on and it lets me control things in a manner of my choosing far more than 10 does. Any gains in 10's performance are irrelevant if I am not happy with the system overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Yeah, because surveys and focus groups are an accurate representation of everyone. Nope, they are a way of guessing.
    No, actually they are ways of gathering statistical data which is a far different animal than "guessing".

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Then use Pro/Enterprise so you have control over it. That's called choice.
    OR I can stick with 7 which doesn't suck. That's MY choice

    Look you can justify 10 to yourself all you want. It's doesn't make me wrong. It can't because opinions are subjective. You are fine with windows 10. I'm not. And I am under no obligation to upgrade to what I consider an inferior OS. And considering that more than 47% of the OS marketshare are currently using 7 while only 15% or so are using 10, even with as long as 10 has been available, I think it's safe to assume I'm not alone.

    I'm sticking to Windows 7 until I have a reason to upgrade. Like Win8, Win10 is giving me reasons not to.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2016-05-25 at 04:55 PM.

  20. #140
    To those that ask why I hate it, I hate it because of the way it looks, I hate it because of the way basic things like control panel are a mess to go through. I mainly dislike it because I am forced to get windows 10 pro to stop optional updates auto-updating, something that is a serious pet-peeve of mine. Don't auto-update my programs unless I ask you to. I presume this hasn't changed since the last time I checked.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •