Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Valentyn]

Not so far, servers seem to be down atm, so could be a new build incoming or hotfixes, so fingers crossed they acquiesce!!

I really hope they do. It's nonsensical for Stealth and Vanish to have the bar but not for Shadow Dance.

All it does is force players to use more keybinds for Abilities they already have bound.

[kalaratic]

what are u guys thinking will be the best path for our artifact? i'm thinking finality -> akaari's soul just to get the ST traits out of the way since that's our strength. typically the first trait u get is pretty important since the AP requirement ramps up fast after that, but the way our artifact tree is designed is that by the time ur at ghost armor, u are only 1-2 traits away from hitting the major ones.

akaari is bugged atm but i hit a 1.17m finality dfa crit only at ilvl 818 (feelsgoodman) which is kinda why i'm leaning towards that one first.

[elfporn]

ill be doing Shadow fangs->fortune's bite->embrace of darkness->precision strike->second shuriken-> energetic stabbing->finality. After that ill get gutripper then demon's kiss, and then proceed to ASoul

[Deleted]

I don't get why 2 consecutives traits give dodge %

[Valentyn]

I don't get why 2 consecutives traits give dodge %

They ran out of ideas most likely.

[Deleted]

They are not even trying at this point. Hopefully this will get changed.

[Valentyn]

Honestly it really feels like it. I still don't understand some decisions they've made; in regards to the double dodge, and more so no stealth bar for Shadow Dance. I can get over the rest and adapt well enough, but some choices are just odd.

[Deleted]

what are u guys thinking will be the best path for our artifact? i'm thinking finality -> akaari's soul just to get the ST traits out of the way since that's our strength. typically the first trait u get is pretty important since the AP requirement ramps up fast after that, but the way our artifact tree is designed is that by the time ur at ghost armor, u are only 1-2 traits away from hitting the major ones.

akaari is bugged atm but i hit a 1.17m finality dfa crit only at ilvl 818 (feelsgoodman) which is kinda why i'm leaning towards that one first.

That and it actually adds some complexity to what is, until you get finality, a pretty boring rotation. Optimal Finality usage is whats going define the good sub rogues from the rest, IMO.

Sub Rogues will be king on ST and fights where you have a big add that needs to die quickly or a spine fight as you can hold burst quite reliably without wasting resources for when you want to use it if you talent right, we will also be strong on council fights, especially if we can make good use of Shuriken Storm to keep up nightblade on many targets. We are just going to have to hope that they recognise our total lack of short term burst AoE (5man mythics will be a struggle etc) and raise our ST substantially above other classes who can do everything(i'm looking at you hybrids).

[kalaratic]

ill be doing Shadow fangs->fortune's bite->embrace of darkness->precision strike->second shuriken-> energetic stabbing->finality. After that ill get gutripper then demon's kiss, and then proceed to ASoul

the only problem with that path is that it takes 43,565 AP to fill out finality and akaari's where it only takes 26,485 AP to fill both if u go the gutripper route.

[elfporn]

the only problem with that path is that it takes 43,565 AP to fill out finality and akaari's where it only takes 26,485 AP to fill both if u go the gutripper route.

the only problem with that path is that it takes 43,565 AP to fill out finality and akaari's where it only takes 26,485 AP to fill both if u go the gutripper route.

with my route i wanted to go for the resource and damage traits before the others, ending with finality. The cost of traits supposedly goes up after 12? or 13 points, which is when blizzard says we should be done with the leveling process. Finality would be 14 points in, with gutripper and demon's kiss available to be filled next. ASoul i'm not too concerned with getting super fast, it's just the next goal, and shadow nova is the last goal

I'm also looking forward to the interesting things we can do with the relics, that customization, even with fairly shitty traits...so far my favorite choices for relics are energetic stabbing and precision strikes.

[kalaratic]

I'm also looking forward to the interesting things we can do with the relics, that customization, even with fairly shitty traits...so far my favorite choices for relics are energetic stabbing and precision strikes.

i would love energetic stabbing a lot more if the proc wasn't 25%. whenever i shadowstrike i barely see it proccing that often

[elfporn]

i would love energetic stabbing a lot more if the proc wasn't 25%. whenever i shadowstrike i barely see it proccing that often

for normal play i plan to wear the legendary that returns energy on shadowstrike, yea i know legendaries are bandaids, but it's that energy proc that saves the day. Shadow Satyr's Walk is the item

[Deleted]

for normal play i plan to wear the legendary that returns energy on shadowstrike, yea i know legendaries are bandaids, but it's that energy proc that saves the day. Shadow Satyr's Walk is the item

I wonder if, in raid environments, when we get emptied of Energy and have no CPs to cast a 5CP finisher it will be a DPS gain to run away from the target and Shadowstrike from afar as possible.

[kalaratic]

I wonder if, in raid environments, when we get emptied of Energy and have no CPs to cast a 5CP finisher it will be a DPS gain to run away from the target and Shadowstrike from afar as possible.

u would probably shadowstep to a caster and shadowstrike back in rather than running

[Deleted]

u would probably shadowstep to a caster and shadowstrike back in rather than running

Yeah makes sense, so you'll basically have another keybind to Shadowstep to a caster. Not sure if this sounds fun or inconvenient.

[elfporn]

Yeah makes sense, so you'll basically have another keybind to Shadowstep to a caster. Not sure if this sounds fun or inconvenient.

creative use of game mechanics, or cutting edge dps increase, similar to using a ~25sec pull timer for high duration snd, or the mastery set for snd snapshot

[kalaratic]

Yeah makes sense, so you'll basically have another keybind to Shadowstep to a caster. Not sure if this sounds fun or inconvenient.

i don't think it would be that burdening. i would probably just do a shift modifier on my shadowstep bind to step to whoever my focus target is

[Deleted]

It's just that I compare that Shadowstep usage to Sprint now becoming a DPS cooldown. It's nowhere as restrictive as Sprint is now, but still reduces Shadowstep's potential to avoid stuff since you wanna save it to generate energy.

[Wow]

I don't get why 2 consecutives traits give dodge %

Originally it was run speed and the other was reduced dmg taken, then they thought they were too good so they did what they always do put about 2secs of thought into rogue changes and never look back until patch x.1/x.2 of the exps.

[Deleted]

Originally it was run speed and the other was reduced dmg taken, then they thought they were too good so they did what they always do put about 2secs of thought into rogue changes and never look back until patch x.1/x.2 of the exps.

so we get between 45%-50% dodge or 60-65% dodge with relics. Which means that we are dodge machines. This is good vs hunters and warriors etc. Our survivability is good. Paired with our high mobility thanks to shadowstrike, 21 sec vanish, and insane heals. we are pretty much overpowered. Heck I wouldn't mind if they removed evasion. Pretty good for PvP.

Though we can spend those relics elsewhere:
like precision strike (more dmg from shadowstrike) or crit chance to deliver the finisher Gutripper, that is, from 20-25% crit chance up to 50-55%crit chance.

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by the way, I have played rogue since...ever. This expansion i might roll paladin just for Equality and make a 3v3 with 3 ret paladins or even 5v5 with 5 rets.
/sarcasm