Fmr. McDonald's USA CEO: $35K Robots Cheaper Than Hiring at $15 Per Hour.

[Themius]

Got it, don't know what you're talking about. Back to my original post. The US has some of the worst economic mobility rates in the US. These temporarily depressed millionaires, are actually delusional poor people who drank to much of the koolaid propaganda.

However, if one gets an education and goes into a field that pays well economic mobility abounds.

There are various list of 5-10 year averages for graduates of various degrees.

[Tyrianth]

I agree.. I just can't see inflation not making the increase trivial if not even noticeable in a few short years.

Inflation will increase with a minimum wage increase but it will never increase to the point of making a wage increase not noticeable.

[Flutterguy]

Likewise I can't understand why people don't comprehend that there are basically two choices. A living wage, or welfare. If you are in favor of paying taxes, to supplement the income of Mc Food workers, then you can be against an increase in the minimum wage. Otherwise, you can only logically be in favor of the increase, even if it means the loss of a 99 cent "cheese burger".

I still don't know how people in this day and age don't understand basic economics. Markets would adjust to a guaranteed income.

[Endus]

I agree.. I just can't see inflation not making the increase trivial if not even noticeable in a few short years.

Which is why I've always argued that the policy should be to peg the targeted rate to the cost of living, such that any future changes in that cost of living (due to inflation) automatically get transferred to the minimum wage, typically on a yearly basis (to make budgeting easier for companies).

That's a completely secondary issue, though, and one with (as above) a simple solution.

And if you mean inflation due to the wage increase specifically, then you're talking about something that's literally mathematically impossible.

[Tyrianth]

However, if one gets an education and goes into a field that pays well economic mobility abounds.

There are various list of 5-10 year averages for graduates of various degrees.

And again you have actually provided sources and Im not going out of my way to find sources for you. So unless you're willing to provide them we may as well end this discussion here. I made my point about economic mobility and provided sources until you provide sources for your claims then we're just going to argue in circles.

[Barnabas]

Actually no where have I advocated against automation, so there's that. It is a statistical fact, that if 1 person can run 4 machines that do the work of 4 people, that means there are 3 less people at that job. This is not conspiracy theory, this is not tin foil hat, this is the most basic kind of math that a child would know. What I have been saying, had you spent the time reading instead of trying to insult people, is that something has to give if the amount of automation continues in the way it currently is.

Those 3 people get a new skill and find a new job. It's as simple as that. You keep trying to math your way, cherry pick comments your way and I'm sure you'll come up more vapid replies to argue your way out of what I've been saying the entire time. Get a new skill before you lose your job. If you are a dolt and rather compete against millions of others at the same time then that is on you. There will be jobs still by then but if you have no skill for them then you fucked yourself. Understand now or do we need to continue this for a few more pages?

[Wolfheart9]

Inflation will increase with a minimum wage increase but it will never increase to the point of making a wage increase not noticeable.

They won't however increase in proportion to one another, and as we've seen inflation will increase regardless of minimum wage.

Those 3 people get a new skill and find a new job. It's as simple as that. You keep trying to math your way, cherry pick comments your way and I'm sure you'll come up more vapid replies to argue your way out of what I've been saying the entire time. Get a new skill before you lose your job. It's that simple.

Seriously, it must be awesome living in a world where a casheer who barely makes enough to make rent can just care-free go to school and get whatever skill they want and instantly be granted a new job.. That's freakin' awesome.

[Tyrianth]

They won't however increase in proportion to one another, and as we've seen inflation will increase regardless of minimum wage.

As it should, a healthy economy will see minor inflation every year.

[Wolfheart9]

As it should, a healthy economy will see minor inflation every year.

And if minimum wage does not keep up, while inflation continues to increase every year, that by definition means that people cannot survive in minimum wage without aid, correct? The aid we pay taxes on?

[Barnabas]

They won't however increase in proportion to one another, and as we've seen inflation will increase regardless of minimum wage.



Seriously, it must be awesome living in a world where a casheer who barely makes enough to make rent can just care-free go to school and get whatever skill they want and instantly be granted a new job.. That's freakin' awesome.

Yes it is awesome when you can adapt to changes before they happen. You don't have to be nostradamus to figure out if you will lose your job. If you are nostrdamus then people will pay you lots of money for your insight and thats a new job.

[TheTaurenOrc]

What they there not telling you; its also cheaper than hiring at $9.75 per hour.

[Belize]

How much per month does each person get?

7.50$/h for eight hours a day on weekdays

[Tyrianth]

Yes it is awesome when you can adapt to changes before they happen. You don't have to be nostradamus to figure out if you will lose your job. If you are nostrdamus then people will pay you lots of money for your insight and thats a new job.

Ok so the 45 year old cashier starts saving his money knowing his going to lose his job within the next 5 or 6 years. He finally gets enough to go to school, to get an education and now he has to:

Continue working full time as a cashier for income.
Go to school full time in the evenings to be able to get a degree.
And help raise his family.

Lucky for him he gets his degree around the same time he gets laid off. Now he takes his software engineering out to find a job. But he can't find one. No one his hiring 45 year old software engineers. So now he's jobless, went to school to get a useful degree, and can't find a job because all they people who would've hired him are now automating. According to you what he should do what? Suffer and die? Not be able to feed himself let alone his children?

[Captain N]

Yes it is awesome when you can adapt to changes before they happen. You don't have to be nostradamus to figure out if you will lose your job. If you are nostrdamus then people will pay you lots of money for your insight and thats a new job.

I'm sure those thousands of tradesmen knew they were going to end up out of a job in 2008. But yes you and I have had that conversation before....You blame the workers instead of circumstances outside of their control. Those 20+ year guys should just go get other skills because it was totally their fault the Housing Market crashed and they ended up out of work.

[Rakoth]

To the OP: Yes. That is true. But where does one draw the line. Because the 35k robot right now, will only cost 30k next year, and 20k in five years. Next up, you will ask them to reduce the wage, because the robot is so much cheaper.

Basic income is not a fantasy, I am afraid it's something we are going to need, because this is just one industry that will get crushed. Others are coming just as quickly.
Truck Drivers, phone operators, personal assistants. This isn't just about robots, it's also about A.I. Even simple decision making jobs will get replaced.

https://medium.com/basic-income/deep...a49#.759t7pfap

[Sunseeker]

So what? We should pay slave wages to keep people employed? There's no point in working a job if it can't support you.

Also hey guess what McDonalds? Robot workers don't buy burgers.

[Deleted]

And this is why I fear capitalism is doomed to fail. Once we reach a certain technological height, capitalism may no longer be sustainable. Communism or some other form of socialism may become a reality and maybe the only possibility in the future.

This is so wrong. While you maybe be right and basic income could be inevitable.. it will most certainly not be communism or socialism. It would stem from the same source the jobs disappear to - automation.

Communism and socialism are both based on redistribution and since it assumes most people would put society above themselves, its proven wrong and unsustainable many times. The only people who want it are those who just want free stuff and dont care where it comes from. So where would the funds to provide basic income come from?

[Barnabas]

Ok so the 45 year old cashier starts saving his money knowing his going to lose his job within the next 5 or 6 years. He finally gets enough to go to school, to get an education and now he has to:

Continue working full time as a cashier for income.
Go to school full time in the evenings to be able to get a degree.
And help raise his family.

Lucky for him he gets his degree around the same time he gets laid off. Now he takes his software engineering out to find a job. But he can't find one. No one his hiring 45 year old software engineers. So now he's jobless, went to school to get a useful degree, and can't find a job because all they people who would've hired him are now automating. According to you what he should do what? Suffer and die? Not be able to feed himself let alone his children?

Wow if you can get a 4 year degree as CS major in less than a year and nobody hires your ass they are missing out.

[Deleted]

Which is why I've always argued that the policy should be to peg the targeted rate to the cost of living, such that any future changes in that cost of living (due to inflation) automatically get transferred to the minimum wage, typically on a yearly basis (to make budgeting easier for companies).

That's a completely secondary issue, though, and one with (as above) a simple solution.

And if you mean inflation due to the wage increase specifically, then you're talking about something that's literally mathematically impossible.

I see it having a trickling effect mostly driven on by housing prices. I do agree more with keeping cost of living down and drawing funds from luxuriates.

[Ornerybear]

I believe the correct response to this "they don't deserve it" nonsense is: Go fuck yourself. Everyone deserves to be able to put a roof over their heads and food on their plate, whether you deem their job worthy or not. And the idea that just because these jobs can be done by teenagers and the mentally handicapped means that they are being done just by teenagers and the mentally handicapped is stupid as hell. Not everyone can get a better job, and those people don't deserved to have fuckwits spitting on them.

so a minimum effort lazy, no skill required, 36hr a week job should be a living wage. no, fuck you entitled shit, get a second job, be creative. If base pay fast food employees had the motivation and drive to do their current job well and not fuck it up almost every single time i go to one of these places, then maybe i'd agree they deserve a living wage, but they can't, so they don't.

I was making 8-12/hr for almost 10 years at various jobs. you know what i fucking did, I worked my ass off and slowly got small raises and opportunities to get paid more and take on better jobs within the company. If I needed more money for bills and rent and food, I'd go to a junkyard and pull parts i could sell on craigslist and ebay, and make up the difference there. So if I saw people working their ass off at every fast food joint and my order was almost always correct then i would agree with you, but if all I get is shit service and shit attitudes from people that can't be bothered to do their job correctly, then I could care less.

There are jobs like call centers that have no barrier to entry that pay well that you can do from home and have great performance bonuses, and all you need is a damn pulse to get a job there, you can even be a felon, and you don't even have to live in the same damn city! They usually even pay for your phone. Sorry i don't have sympathy for people who want to make a living wage on minimum effort and I could care less if you think less of me for it.

for the record I only feel this way about entry level fast food jobs. not managers or anyone working at any regular restaurant and/or bars. all the rest of those i think deserve higher pay...