Fmr. McDonald's USA CEO: $35K Robots Cheaper Than Hiring at $15 Per Hour.

[Barnabas]

Mathematically impossible to do large scale.

That is a small scale solution to large scale problem that does not scale up.

That is like trying to shove 100 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag, no matter how much you try, that much shit will never fit in something that small.

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See my last post.

Nope people haven't been changing careers over the past 100 years without much hiccup. I guess robots will change that too? I mean you are right we must be doomed. HELL IS HERE MY BROTHER!

[Wolfheart9]

Nope the mexicans I mean robots will take all the jobs.

Nice racial thing there bud. Since you're acting like a child, I'll explain it like a child.

There are two kinds of trees.. One is an apple tree, and one is a coconut tree.

The apple tree has 100 apples on it.
The coconut Tree has 100 coconuts on it.

In order to get the coconuts, only the people with ladders can get them.
The people without ladders, have to get the apples.

There are 200 people. 100 get apples, 100 get coconuts.

Now, an outside force owned by the 100 people that own the ladders can automatically gather apples, so they hire 10 people from the apple group, to watch their 100 bots that pick apples.

The 90 other people that used to pick apples now go get ladders magically, and join those at the coconut tree.. but wait! There are only 100 coconuts, but now 190 people going for them!

Math.

[Fugus]

That's not really true. Both republican's and democrats have suggestions to fix the issue, including both Hillary and Trump. Obama has suggested 2 year colleges be paid for by the state or federal government. Bernie I believe suggested 4 years and Hillary jumps around what education should be paid for, but the general idea is similar between democrats. Republicans, such as Trump, Cruz and similar with others, have instead focused on lowering taxes on business and making places like China more susceptible to US manufacturing.

The issue isn't that they don't have plans, but that their solutions are fundamentally counter to each other. This creates a bottle neck, where there is little common ground to be had. Then you add the rhetoric of each and even the discussion of pros and cons is hard to achieve. As one side screams communist, while the other screams corporations...

The cheaper education would be a godsend to those trying to improve themselves and will make things easier for them to get the jobs they desire (while also having the side-effect of depressing the wages for those jobs with the increased competition from qualified workers partially removing much of the motivation for many to seek those degrees) but that does not solve one of the bigger issues. It does not create jobs for those people to fill.

If you want to solve the issue of those whom are unemployed, you have to have enough jobs for them to fill. Otherwise you have them competing to be the top of the heap to get those minimum wage jobs with the remaining who were not at the top to go unemployed and the harder they collectively work to get to the top does not effect how many of them get a job in any positive way. On the contrary, their increased productivity from their competition renders a bigger portion of them as excessive labor to be cut which makes the overall problem even worse without government intervention to ensure the benefits of such increases are spread to the workers instead of horded by the top.

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Nope people haven't been changing careers over the past 100 years without much hiccup. I guess robots will change that too? I mean you are right we must be doomed. HELL IS HERE MY BROTHER!

Math is not your strong point is it?

[Barnabas]

Nice racial thing there bud. Since you're acting like a child, I'll explain it like a child.

There are two kinds of trees.. One is an apple tree, and one is a coconut tree.

The apple tree has 100 apples on it.
The coconut Tree has 100 coconuts on it.

In order to get the coconuts, only the people with ladders can get them.
The people without ladders, have to get the apples.

There are 200 people. 100 get apples, 100 get coconuts.

Now, an outside force owned by the 100 people that own the ladders can automatically gather apples, so they hire 10 people from the apple group, to watch their 100 bots that pick apples.

The 90 other people that used to pick apples now go get ladders magically, and join those at the coconut tree.. but wait! There are only 100 coconuts, but now 190 people going for them!

Math.

mexicans aren't a race. It's a nationality. It's a perfect example of the fallacy you are a couple of others are trying to promote with robots. Here's your example in real life without your "math." So with 100 of these things they can harvest 100 trees at a time with 100 people. Because somebody has to attach the bot on the tree and pickup the coconuts off the ground..



I dunno maybe the company making these robots are hiring? Thats a few more jobs right? You guys and your nonsense fallacy you keep arguing. Give me a break.

[Wolfheart9]

mexicans aren't a race. It's a nationality. It's a perfect example of the fallacy you are a couple of others are trying to promote with robots. Here's your example in real life without your "math."

Right, I forgot that calling someone a dirty mexican was seen as a 'Nationalist' not a "Racist' comment in our society..

You all can have fun playing with this kid, he's gone too far down the rabbit hole to be amusing anymore.

[Felya]

Kill your unskilled labor force kill your economy.

Which is exactly what the article in OP obfuscates. Yes, a 35k machine is more cost effective in the current economy than human labor. But, when you remove human labor, the 35k machine might no longer be as cost effective, because the economic parading has changed. When all the unskilled labor has no income, who is going to be buying their goods? Sense the revenue pool will drop, with a mass of people no longer being able to afford the goods, 35k even spread across several years might be too expansive. If the revenue drops by a tenth, then the actual cost of the automation in that economic state, is actually a tenth more expansive. As your revenue can no longer sustain the same expanses...

Automation only saves money in the current economic state. But, an economic state with automation replacing unskilled labor, removes the revenue generated by those unskilled workers. Without social safety nets, this will be the death of capitalism. It's why I like to say... Socialism protects the throat of capatalism, while capatalism protects the stomach of socialism. Automation talking over, without social programs to account for it, will cut the throat of capatalism, because it will no longer fill the stomachs of socialism.

[Elbren]

People do not get how complex machines like this are....

With how many settings and programming you would have to do just so the damn thing doesn't crush a bun one mechanic per store is likely low balling it.

Oh, I understand that. My original post was simply talking about kiosks. Automated food systems that would be much more complex. That's why I said that the only people you would need would be the cook(s) and someone to hand you food. You're talking about only needing (maybe) 3 people per shift.

[Barnabas]

Right, I forgot that calling someone a dirty mexican was seen as a 'Nationalist' not a "Racist' comment in our society..

You all can have fun playing with this kid, he's gone too far down the rabbit hole to be amusing anymore.

Hey not my problem people are told to look at that the wrong way. Then have others support it. Have fun posting to someone else. You'll be missed?

[willemh]

People seem to forget, who will be building that $35k robot? Instead of bagging fries, people will be working in a robot factory. Loosing your job to a robot really isn't a bad thing, if a robot can do it why on fucking earth would you want to do it yourself anyway. Instead your time is completely freed to do other stuff.

We're not complaining about not having to clean the floor anymore because we have a robot dust cleaner? Or not having to manually calculate huge spreadsheets because we have excel? Would you be happy living in a world that wouldn't have industrialized at all? Small hint, you probably wouldn't even live because without technology there would be no way for the earth to support over 7 billion people.

Technology is a good thing, every minute wasted by humans on work that could be done by robots is a waste for humanity. Trying to maintain jobs that are 100% useless is not the way to go, spending your time on jobs that are useful to humanity is the way forward. There's always something better to do then something that's 100% useless.

[Eliseus]

1 Robot to rule them all!

[Reeve]

People seem to forget, who will be building that $35k robot? Instead of bagging fries, people will be working in a robot factory. Loosing your job to a robot really isn't a bad thing, if a robot can do it why on fucking earth would you want to do it yourself anyway. Instead your time is completely freed to do other stuff.

People don't forget. We just realize that 100 people in that robot factory can build enough robots to put 100,000 people out of work. Even if you need 1,000 people to maintain those robots, you're still out 98,900 jobs.

Technology is a good thing. Mostly we aren't arguing that. We ARE saying that it will cause a great deal of economic and social disruption and we'll have to figure out new paradigms to keep the whole of society from collapsing under the weight of the change.

[Wolfheart9]

People seem to forget, who will be building that $35k robot? Instead of bagging fries, people will be working in a robot factory. Loosing your job to a robot really isn't a bad thing, if a robot can do it why on fucking earth would you want to do it yourself anyway. Instead your time is completely freed to do other stuff.

We're not complaining about not having to clean the floor anymore because we have a robot dust cleaner? Or not having to manually calculate huge spreadsheets because we have excel? Would you be happy living in a world that wouldn't have industrialized at all? Small hint, you probably wouldn't even live because without technology there would be no way for the earth to support over 7 billion people.

Technology is a good thing, every minute wasted by humans on work that could be done by robots is a waste for humanity. Trying to maintain jobs that are 100% useless is not the way to go, spending your time on jobs that are useful to humanity is the way forward. There's always something better to do then something that's 100% useless.

Who will be building those robots? Other robots whom were made by one factory. Yes, new jobs open up, as we have said time and time again, but unless for every 1 robot that does every 1 task, 1 new job opens up, there will be a job loss, and that's not how the world works. Right now, 1 person can watch over 10 robots, replacing 10 people, which took 10 other robots to crank out hundreds of them, which took less people to design and build than the jobs it replaced. Automation is totally fine, so long as there is something to offset it.

[Felya]

mexicans aren't a race. It's a nationality. It's a perfect example of the fallacy you are a couple of others are trying to promote with robots.

No, the only thing that it is an example of is an argument that ignores the point, to focus on semantics. You honestly think the issue is calling it a race? If he said 'nationality', that would change the point of him saying race?

What you are doing is little more than complaining that it's a rabbit shitting in your shoe, not a bunny. To completely ignore that there is something shitting in your shoe...

[Stop Pretending]

When I do order fast food, which isn't often, I only use the computers. Much easier and efficient.

[PassingBy]

Yeah and while you are at it - you also make a robot, that will wipe the floors and clean toilets, when he is not "bagging fries", run around taking trays, move from one mcdonalds to another in case the other robot is broken or at maintenance etc.

Theoretically the rise of computers should have reduced the need in morons like the former mcdonalds CEO, and millions of other white collar jobs, but we are seeing an increase in those jobs.
For every person actually involved in production of something physically real we see more and more indirects.
And their jobs are much more easily replaced by a properly designed computer program and a spreadsheet.

So I don't really think that the guys, that are doing the "dirty" work shall be afraid of robots.
Mexicans - probably. Robots - nah.

[Joresh]

And this is why I fear capitalism is doomed to fail. Once we reach a certain technological height, capitalism may no longer be sustainable. Communism or some other form of socialism may become a reality and maybe the only possibility in the future.

Ya the Luddites feared the same thing in the 1700's with the industrial revolution. they feared technology so much that they actually fought against the revolution. over 300 years later and people are still employed. I'm not holding my breath for the day people are replaced by technology, but feel free to, see you in well over 300 years

[Barnabas]

No, the only thing that it is an example of is an argument that ignores the point, to focus on semantics. You honestly think the issue is calling it a race? If he said 'nationality', that would change the point of him saying race?

What you are doing is little more than complaining that it's a rabbit shitting in your shoe, not a bunny. To completely ignore that there is something shitting in your shoe...

Either way you will complain if its aliens from mars taking your jobs. You've been at it for pages now.

[Wolfheart9]

Ya the Luddites feared the same thing in the 1700's with the industrial revolution. they feared technology so much that they actually fought against the revolution. over 300 years later and people are still employed. I'm not holding my breath for the day people are replaced by technology, but feel free to, see you in well over 300 years

To be fair that was the fear of what 'might' happen. This is currently the fear of what 'is' happening. As I stated earlier, in one single generation we went from factory work being 'If you can't get anything else' and 'fresh out of highschool' work, to an actual rarity due to how much of each factory has become automated.

Will all jobs be replaced in the next 30 years? Oh hell no. Is it something that is starting to effect things? Yup.

[Invrlose]

i like that basic income idea where everyone gets a basic income on top of any wages. but i want it to be tested somewhere like Sweden first before it comes here

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with proper maintenance it would probably last longer than 4 years i would think

What's the point of everybody paying taxes so that everyone can get that money back as a "basic income" If I give you 5 bucks and you've given me 5 bucks back, I might as well have just not given you $5.00

[Ornerybear]

... Sooo in your reasoning that minimum wage people should work two jobs just to survive, your example is you working 10 years at above minimum wage..

No my reason is no one is owed a living wage for wanting to do the bare minimum. and before working for a couple dollars above minimum wage I worked minimum wage for years. like i said, if i needed money, i went to the junkyard and flipped parts, i did that while earning minimum wage to pay my bills.

Nobody gives a shit about your anecdotal evidence. It does not apply to societal levels -- It would be the same as me claiming that if you do as I do you too can make a six figure income. That's not possible and there's more people who are likely to fail than there are too succeed. What you did is fantastic for you....It doesn't work when you tell a mass group of people just "Do Better because I did"

It's not about my anecdotal evidence. I could give a shit about a group of people that think because they want to do the bare minimum, they should be able to live off of it at 40hrs a week. I don't sympathize with the everyone gets a trophy mentality. The way I look at it is i could still be at the minimum wage job started at in highschool, because the 30 yr old guy (at the time) i worked with there is still there doing a lazy easy job and thats why hes there still making peanuts, and if I want to make 6 figures, I could give a shit what you did to get there and I'm not going to sit here and expect anyone to give me anything to help me get there, it's on me if i want to make 6 figures.


I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and I understand that your perspective is right to you. I simply do not think our standard for minimum wage should be a living wage. I do agree the minimum wage should be raised though.