[TV] The Flash!

[Svifnymr]

Only until S3 happens. Then he's just present Barry.

Until Season 4 Barry fucks it up again. :-p

(Insert image of 16 Flashes standing around the Allen house trying to decide if the mother dies or not)

[apepi]

I doubt it'll be screwy all season. Either fixed before the crossover, or during the crossover.

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Barry is using the speed boost in his suit that RF taught him. He's at least equal to RF at this point, I imagine. Plus, yeah, element of surprise.

No, I am saying at then end of next season, do we think they will rewrite time again like they did with the two previous seasons?

[Kalcheus]

No, I am saying at then end of next season, do we think they will rewrite time again like they did with the two previous seasons?

Oh, sorry. No, I think Season 3 ends with Gorilla Grodd invading.

[Spl4sh3r]

With this saving the mother all I can think of is the Flashpoint Paradox.

[Khime]

Flash has killed at least 3 metas this season, but wouldn't kill the big bad when he had chances to do so. In the end he let the wraiths do it, I guess he just doesn't like getting his hands dirty. It's okay to nuke a guy to death, turn him to glass and shatter him or any other indirect method.

Remember, it was Zoom who taught Barry to throw lightning in order to defeat Sand Demon. It's entirely possible that Barry didn't realize it would kill him, but that Zoom knew perfectly well what would happen. Zoom was also the one who encouraged him to talk to Doctor Light, knowing what a mind-fuck that would be for him. Doesn't excuse Atom Smasher, though.

Though this did make me want to figure out how many dead villains we've had on this show.

1x01: Weather Wizard I (killed by Joe)
1x02: Multiplex (suicide)
1x05: Plastique (killed by General Eiling)
1x07: Girder (killed by Blackout), Blackout (died overdosing on Barry's energy)
1x20: Everyman (killed by Joe)
1x23: Reverse Flash (erased by Eddie)

2x01: Atom Smasher (killed by Team Flash's plan to stop him)
2x02: Sand Demon (killed by Barry)
2x03: Lewis Snart (killed by Captain Cold)
2x08: Vandal Savage (actually killed in the Arrow part of the crossover, plus he got better)
2x10: Turtle (killed by Harrison Wells)
2x13: Reverb (killed by Zoom), Deathstorm (killed by Zoom)
2x16: Trajectory (overdosed on Velocity-9)
2x19: Griffen Grey (killed by Team Flash's plan to stop him), Killer Frost (killed by Zoom)
2x20: Rupture (killed by Zoom)
2x21: Zombie Girder (this one doesn't count! he was dead already!)
2x23: Zoom (killed by Time Wraiths as planned by Barry)

Still living villains: The Mist, Rainbow Raider/Prism, Heat Wave, Pied Piper, Peek-a-Boo, Weather Wizard II, Golden Glider, Trickster I, Trickster II, Bug-Eyed Bandit, Grodd, Tokamak, Doctor Light, Tar Pit, Geomancer, King Shark, Black Siren

[Aeluron Lightsong]

At most I can see in Flashpoint


Thomas Wayne= Robert Queen

Cisco(Vibing powers maybe)=Cyborg


That's just what I think. I suspect we'll know more at Comic-Con.

We'll most likely see Captain Cold as Citizen Cold(Possibly...maybe)


One last thing, it'd be hillarious after Barry fixes the timeline, all his villains are back alive

[Svifnymr]

On a real note, I'm wondering how fast they'll rectify the Paradox. I'm hoping they don't go more than 2 or 3 episodes before diving into something more substantial as they don't have the ability to properly do it. Would love to see WW and Aquaman fighting it out though...

They can't use WW, Aqua or any of them. I'm thinking Flashpoint will be resolved in a couple episodes, perhaps with Wally-Flash or Jessie Quick. I think Ep1 will return him to "modern day" with no powers and seeing how bad everything else is, then maybe he'll set out to regain his powers, but since they DID that this season it'll be sort of meh. I'd have loved Ep2 of Season3 to be Arrow (since no Batman) strapping Barry into an electric chair.

[Khime]

(And why the fuck is Wells/ Jessie doing this tear jerking goodbye crap, the PORTAL IS OPEN! Just build another damn cannon and stfu!)

These people have been working together with Team Flash, practically living with them, for months on end. Now they're going home. Just like when a child or a friend moves out of your home, you know you will see them again, but it won't be as often, and it won't be the same, and you intend to keep in constant contact, and you'll call even week and visit every other weekend, but you know that the distance and the separation of lives will lead to growing apart, and things will never be the same again. So there is sadness.

[Svifnymr]

Remember, it was Zoom who taught Barry to throw lightning in order to defeat Sand Demon. It's entirely possible that Barry didn't realize it would kill him, but that Zoom knew perfectly well what would happen. Zoom was also the one who encouraged him to talk to Doctor Light, knowing what a mind-fuck that would be for him. Doesn't excuse Atom Smasher, though.

Didn't he specifically shatter Sand Demon after melting him? Same with Griffen Grey that in both cases they didn't seem to care that their plans involved killing someone and they didn't really explore too many other options.

Which hey, don't get me wrong, I'm fine with it. I liked Patty for actually drawing her gun and shooting, it's a shame it was always ineffectual. When the teleporter girl's place was raided in season1 by Joe and stuff, it was nice to actually see folks doing something.

The problem is the Hero Dillemma, "you can't kill someone!", you can only cause their death indirectly? Like I said with Arrow, Diggs can shoot folks (random comment about sleep darts or something?) and we see plenty of mooks with arrows sticking out of their chest as they lay on the ground unmoving. But no, we can't kill the mass murderer, we're a good guy! The issue is that they go out of their way, sometimes specficially endangering others, to prevent killing the big bad, rather than the guy surviving because he's that good.

[RobertoCarlos]

I just clicked, if Harrison Wells goes back to Earth 2 like he said he would in the finale. Then it makes it easier for Tom Cavanagh to be reverse flash again

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Didn't he specifically shatter Sand Demon after melting him? Same with Griffen Grey that in both cases they didn't seem to care that their plans involved killing someone and they didn't really explore too many other options.

Which hey, don't get me wrong, I'm fine with it. I liked Patty for actually drawing her gun and shooting, it's a shame it was always ineffectual. When the teleporter girl's place was raided in season1 by Joe and stuff, it was nice to actually see folks doing something.

The problem is the Hero Dillemma, "you can't kill someone!", you can only cause their death indirectly? Like I said with Arrow, Diggs can shoot folks (random comment about sleep darts or something?) and we see plenty of mooks with arrows sticking out of their chest as they lay on the ground unmoving. But no, we can't kill the mass murderer, we're a good guy! The issue is that they go out of their way, sometimes specficially endangering others, to prevent killing the big bad, rather than the guy surviving because he's that good.

Arrow started out as a grittyish Batman or mimic him anyways. Which really is out of character or Oliver Queen.

[Svifnymr]

I just clicked, if Harrison Wells goes back to Earth 2 like he said he would in the finale. Then it makes it easier for Tom Cavanagh to be reverse flash again

Or regular Earth 1 Harrison Wells, since Thawne never killed him. That does still leave us Jessie-less, which is a terrible tragedy.

[Khime]

Didn't he specifically shatter Sand Demon after melting him? Same with Griffen Grey that in both cases they didn't seem to care that their plans involved killing someone and they didn't really explore too many other options.

Jay convinced him he'd need to learn to throw lightning to beat Sand Demon, Barry threw lightning at Sand Demon, it hit Sand Demon in the chest, hurling him backwards and fusing his cells into glass, which shattered when it hit the ground. The plan was to turn him into glass, which does seem casually fatal when I rethink it, even without the whole shattering bit.

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Or regular Earth 1 Harrison Wells, since Thawne never killed him. That does still leave us Jessie-less, which is a terrible tragedy.

So how does time travel interact with multi-universal travel? Since Barry didn't become the Flash who opened the singularity over Central City, Zoom carried on with his plans on Earth-2 unhindered. And did the Banshee and Live Wire kill Kara on her Earth with no Flash around to (barely) help? Will Rip act to correct this once Firestorm and Heat Wave vanish from the Waverider? So many possibilities...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I assume Kara will be unaffected by Flash's time boom. I assume Earth Two will remain as it is, Zoom will still be on E-2 and things are usual(Not good).

[Khime]

I wonder if he'll get yanked into the Speed Force by the nape of his neck so Clarence the angel can show him everything that's changed for the worse now that he wasn't there.

[Immitis]

I don't really like that Barry saved his mom... I thought we got past this with the Speedforce episode. I know he's in pain because of his father, but it just feels like we're going to be retreading familiar ground next season. He saves her, shit gets fucked, and he has to go back and stop himself from saving her.

you dont get it. he isnt JUST saving his mom, hes saving his dad too.

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Oh, sorry. No, I think Season 3 ends with Gorilla Grodd invading.

i think grodd will be the villain of s3 back half

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Arrow started out as a grittyish Batman or mimic him anyways. Which really is out of character or Oliver Queen.

no its not. thats exactly how green arrow started in the comics, a batman rip off that shot arrows.

[Jotaux]

I wonder if this will have an effect on the other arrowverse shows.

[Yunru]

With this saving the mother all I can think of is the Flashpoint Paradox.

One problem...we only have seen a few characters. No superman, just the girl , no wonderwoman no aquaman and no batman either (in gotham series he is to young)

[Khime]

Something that's been bugging me... when they had Barry locked up, was Team Flash's whole plan really just to shove Zoom over into Earth-2, and hope he didn't come back before they could destroy the Magnetar? Even if they closed the breach behind him, nothing was stopping him from returning, and they should have known that, since they'd already commented on Zoom opening breaches by himself.

Or is it really a one-way thing, where portals can be opened on Earth-1 (the 'prime' Earth) to Earth-2, but not the other way around? Is that why Zoom couldn't come here until the singularity created the original 52 breaches, but he could travel to other Earths?

Also, anyone feel sorry for that poor woman who owns Barry's childhood home now? Wonder if all the screaming woke her up.

[Svifnymr]

Something that's been bugging me... when they had Barry locked up, was Team Flash's whole plan really just to shove Zoom over into Earth-2, and hope he didn't come back before they could destroy the Magnetar? Even if they closed the breach behind him, nothing was stopping him from returning, and they should have known that, since they'd already commented on Zoom opening breaches by himself.

It's also silly that they planned to close the portals, trapping him on Earth2, had already decided on the plan, but apparently didn't have the device ready? They didn't just, have it in the van or whatever and destroy the portals right after.
Also Barry projecting via Vibe to Earth2, as opposed to Barry just running over there to Zooms hideout, fighting it out with Zoom over there. Better to gamble the multiverse instead. Both come back to the inability to just bust a cap in your big bad, needs some intricate plot rather than the device clamped to his neck simply being an explosive decapitator.