Switzerland: Muslim students must shake teacher's hand

[Ayla]

Shaking someones hand hardly carries the same connotation as touching someones body. You use your hands to wipe your ass, open bathroom doors, eat, pick up things off the floor. But you're too good to shake someone of the opposite sex's hand? Gtfo. Shaking hands is standard practice in the business world and good on the swiss for encouraging respect in their classrooms.

I'm fairly certain that some refugees don't even use toilet paper or know how to use a western toilet/toilet paper and you are arguing for forced handshakes? I know people who never wash their hands despite being completely western.

But hey, forced physical contact, what could possibly go wrong?

[Deleted]

Maybe the Swiss fine parents instead of suspending students for misbehavior.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm tired.

[Dug]

Maybe the Swiss fine parents instead of suspending students for misbehavior.

That's so silly though, a parent does not have absolute control over their children and what choices they make. Even if the parents said to just suck it up and do it if the kid was really devout and stuck with his principles then why do the parents need to suffer? Not directed at you this whole thing just confuses me, the fine portion of it.

[Biomega]

And what about respecting the people who don't want to shake hands? Fuck them right?

I think the issue for me is more that they are trying to legally enforce a custom, which is always a bit problematic regardless of which culture/religion we are talking about.

I do however agree that you should adapt to local customs, and not just when you actually live there. Visitors to muslim nations, for example, do very much try and adhere to their local customs with things like avoiding alcohol, women covering themselves when visiting religious sites etc. Everyday stuff for tourists even, let alone alien residents. The reverse situation is pretty much the same case.

I guess people get touchy when religion is involved. Problem of course is that for some people religion goes quite far in how strictly it regulates daily life. Not just a moral philosophy, but actual everyday rules. What to eat, who to talk to (or not to), what to wear, etc. Since many of these areas intersect with areas that for many other people are entirely secular, but still part of social spheres, we are bound to run into problems. I don't believe religious belief is a carte blanche to trump all other social customs, norms, and behaviors. Religion has its place, but it's on the inside. Not the outside. In yourself. Not in other people.

[Stop Pretending]

Damn, Endus is swinging his ban stick again. Let's see how many we get over-turned, which they usually are.

[PassingBy]

I am quite sure that if those guys want - they can find a school, where you don't have to shake the teacher's hand.
If not - they can be home schooled, go for external studies, whatever.

They do have options.

Or if they don't want to - they can do the hand shaking thing.

Easy as that.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't care about the hand shaking thing. I might have cared if i was a woman though.

[ButterBeast]

These forums though. People in here having a blast over something as senseless as this, what a victory against the m00slims.


who gives a shit. if anything is odd it's to be forced to shake anyones hand against your will.

[Bollocks]

I think the issue for me is more that they are trying to legally enforce a custom, which is always a bit problematic regardless of which culture/religion we are talking about.

I do however agree that you should adapt to local customs, and not just when you actually live there. Visitors to muslim nations, for example, do very much try and adhere to their local customs with things like avoiding alcohol, women covering themselves when visiting religious sites etc. Everyday stuff for tourists even, let alone alien residents. The reverse situation is pretty much the same case.

I guess people get touchy when religion is involved. Problem of course is that for some people religion goes quite far in how strictly it regulates daily life. Not just a moral philosophy, but actual everyday rules. What to eat, who to talk to (or not to), what to wear, etc. Since many of these areas intersect with areas that for many other people are entirely secular, but still part of social spheres, we are bound to run into problems. I don't believe religious belief is a carte blanche to trump all other social customs, norms, and behaviors. Religion has its place, but it's on the inside. Not the outside. In yourself. Not in other people.

You don't have to adapt to their cultural beleives or their traditions. As long as you respect them and your own don't do harm, I don't see why people should adapt traditions. We have plenty of traditional European comunities here that have totally isolated themselves in small villages and we don't tell them to fuck off because they are not harming us in any way. This is just beyond ridicule, if you want them to show respect to someone force them to do so in the way their cultures does.

[Deleted]

Good for them. Lol at all the infractions... Endus woke up.

thats a lot of infractions haha

[nonameelf]

That's so silly though, a parent does not have absolute control over their children and what choices they make. Even if the parents said to just suck it up and do it if the kid was really devout and stuck with his principles then why do the parents need to suffer? Not directed at you this whole thing just confuses me, the fine portion of it.

It makes sense. Parents are much more likely to get involved in disciplinary issues if they're being fined than if the kid just gets a day off from school.

[Bollocks]

I am quite sure that if those guys want - they can find a school, where you don't have to shake the teacher's hand.
If not - they can be home schooled, go for external studies, whatever.

They do have options.

Or if they don't want to - they can do the hand shaking thing.

Easy as that.

Except that's not how things work. You SHOULD not be forced to do anything besides the minimum level of respect. When foreigners come here, we don't force them to sing our national anthem, we don't force atheists to preach to our god. That is the wonderful thing about freedom, you are not forced to adapt traditions, you should respect them that sure, but not be forced to follow it.

[Azadina]

These forums though. People in here having a blast over something as senseless as this, what a victory against the m00slims.

who gives a shit. if anything is odd it's to be forced to shake anyones hand against your will.

You don't have to shake anyones hand, you can choose not to do it, and by that show disrespect if it's the custom. Would you like to guess what happens in muslim countries if you go there and purposefully disrespect people?

[Florena]

Refusing to shake someone's hand because of their gender is dumb. But honestly I think the tradition of force handshakes every class is also kind of dumb.

[Dug]

You don't have to shake anyones hand, you can choose not to do it, and by that show disrespect if it's the custom. Would you like to guess what happens in muslim countries if you go there and purposefully disrespect people?

Except you do cause there's fines if you don't. That's as close to forcing you as it can get.

- - - Updated - - -

Except that's not how things work. You SHOULD not be forced to do anything besides the minimum level of respect. When foreigners come here, we don't force them to sing our national anthem, we don't force atheists to preach to our god. That is the wonderful thing about freedom, you are not forced to adapt traditions, you should respect them that sure, but not be forced to follow it.

Indeed. Immigrants need to follow the laws not traditions set by our culture.

[Deleted]

Good for Switzerland!! BTW - this is NOT about religion, it is about CULTURE and assimilating to your host country's culture.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36382596

thats absurd.

I can get behind no face coverings (though personally I dont have an issue with it), but shaking hands? thats not cultural, I dont fucking like doing it, I've seen too many dirty fuckers not wash their hands......

as long as they show respect, and dont do things like ask for certain gender teachers...then I'm fine. This just screams being a dick for the sake of beign a dick towards these kids.

[Deleted]

by the sounds of it, the issue is more that they refuse to shake only womans hands, not everyones hands.

idk, i think people should follow customs of their country, even if i think its a stupid one

[Deleted]

You don't have to shake anyones hand, you can choose not to do it, and by that show disrespect if it's the custom. Would you like to guess what happens in muslim countries if you go there and purposefully disrespect people?

I've been to many, and I've never been asked to do anything that makes me uncomfortable. Being a gracious host is pretty ingrained in the culture, they could not be more welcoming.

[Arcanen]

[QUOTE=Ransath;40513839]Good for Switzerland!! BTW - this is NOT about religion, it is about CULTURE and assimilating to your host country's culture.

Couldn't agree more. If they or anyone want's to come to the USA (or any country for that matter) then they have to assimilate to that host country. Not vice versa. That country has social norms and if you don't follow them, expect to be looked at or worse.

[PassingBy]

Except that's not how things work. You SHOULD not be forced to do anything besides the minimum level of respect. When foreigners come here, we don't force them to sing our national anthem, we don't force atheists to preach to our god. That is the wonderful thing about freedom, you are not forced to adapt traditions, you should respect them that sure, but not be forced to follow it.

It is a matter of choice.
If I decide to go to Church - I must obey the rules of behavior in that church. Or a mosque for that matter.
If I decide to go to a black tie event - I don't wear shorts and sneakers.

I am forced to obey the rules, but only if I choose to go to a specific place.

The school sets the rules for a way a student shall dress. This school sets a rule regarding handshaking.
Don't like the rule - change the school.