Switzerland: Muslim students must shake teacher's hand

[Azadina]

I've been to many, and I've never been asked to do anything that makes me uncomfortable. Being a gracious host is pretty ingrained in the culture, they could not be more welcoming.

Did you do something disrespectful and what's considered offensive?

[Bollocks]

[QUOTE=Arcanen;40516865]

Good for Switzerland!! BTW - this is NOT about religion, it is about CULTURE and assimilating to your host country's culture.

Couldn't agree more. If they or anyone want's to come to the USA (or any country for that matter) then they have to assimilate to that host country. Not vice versa. That country has social norms and if you don't follow them, expect to be looked at or worse.

NO, you don't have to. We have plenty of migrant communities that are isolated here and we don't tell them to adapt, its their decision to adapt. We don't force them to participate in out national activities, neither in our religious ones. They are free to do whatever they want as long is its under the law and they respect our culture. That's all. Chinese here moved in and formed their chinatown, germans moved in and formed their own little community in the middle of the jungle.

[PassingBy]

I've been to many, and I've never been asked to do anything that makes me uncomfortable. Being a gracious host is pretty ingrained in the culture, they could not be more welcoming.

Taking off your shoes, while entering any place of worship, even if it is a touristic site also?
Imagine all that sweet foot fungus you can contract. And not all the places provide you with overshoes.
However you still can't walk in wearing your shoes. You leave them at the door.

Try drinking alcohol outside. Making out with a girl in some of those countries. Etc.

Yes if you behave in accordance with their traditions - they are quite gracious and welcoming.
But you still have to respect the traditions and rules.

[Mehrunes]

Shaking hands before and after each lesson? That is interesting, we definitely don't do that here in the US.

Same in Poland. I can't think of a situation where I shook hands with my teachers other than at graduation. Maybe some other ceremonies, but I don't recall those. But shaking hands before and after every lesson sounds bizarre. On the same level as shaking hands with your grocery store cashier. Now multiply it by all the kids in class and you end up wasting time.

If it's not a law the Swiss can fuck off. I'm all for ending ridiculous culture, but not to replace it with just as ridiculous culture. If they don't want to touch you then they shouldn't have to. It's their body.

Pretty much this. It's like they are doing a right thing (trying to make these students not sexist and refuse shaking hands solely on the grounds that the other person is a woman) but for wrong reasons ("We have a right to demand handshakes!", dafuq?).

[Smauldy]

If Muslims are against things like this, WHY don't they just live in a place like Saudi Arabia?

[Azadina]

Except you do cause there's fines if you don't. That's as close to forcing you as it can get.

Close, but not quite. You can choose not to do it, and deal with the consequence instead.

[Strangebrew]

Awesome! Big kudos to Switzerland. Now don't allow building mosques in Europe and we will have safe future.


[Infracted]

I for one am glad we are removing wrongthink and problematic opinions.

All hail emperor Endus.

[Dug]

Close, but not quite. You can choose not to do it, and deal with the consequence instead.

Yes, a forced decision of one or the other. If that's the rules for attending the school then so be it I just don't agree with it. So long as someone is obeying a law I don't see why they need to adhere to traditions. I'm not going to force Muslims in the US to eat apple pie and watch baseball, cause even I don't do that shit but they're "traditions".

[Bollocks]

It is a matter of choice.
If I decide to go to Church - I must obey the rules of behavior in that church. Or a mosque for that matter.
If I decide to go to a black tie event - I don't wear shorts and sneakers.

I am forced to obey the rules, but only if I choose to go to a specific place.

The school sets the rules for a way a student shall dress. This school sets a rule regarding handshaking.
Don't like the rule - change the school.

You are forced to obey the laws, but not follow traditions and customs. Also from what I read its a national school, so rules are somewhat backed from the state and the state should not force this things to students. A private school sure can, and also Churches because they are private entities, but the state should not force you. Here public schools do not force people to preach to our god, despite the majority of them being religious, we also don't force them to sing our national anthem. I could accept the argument if it came from a private institute, but this isn't a private institute and even if it was they should not have the power to economically sanction people.

[PassingBy]

If Muslims are against things like this, WHY don't they just live in a place like Saudi Arabia?

Because unlike Europe Saudi Arabia has strict immigration rules.
And doesn't care about your rights, and shit like that.

So you can come to do the arab's dirty work, but you will be thrown away from the country the momen you are not needed.
I am also quite sure there is no wellfare for non-citizens in Saudi Arabia. And to be a citizen - you pretty much have to be born there.

So Europe seems a better choice.

[Darkeon]

Immigrants should change and adapt accordingly to a Country's culture; Not the other way around.

So I see nothing wrong with Switzerland's position on this issue.

[Morrigenn]

If Muslims are against things like this, WHY don't they just live in a place like Saudi Arabia?

Because in Saudi Arabia, Muslims who are NOT Saudi-born are second class. Please don't assume that "all Muslims" regard each other as equals or treat Muslims of different nationalities with the same respect they treat their own kin.

[Bollocks]

Close, but not quite. You can choose not to do it, and deal with the consequence instead.

But that's not the thing, if it has a sanction that has been backed by regional authorities, then its pretty much the local goverment forcing people their traditions.

[Dug]

Because in Saudi Arabia, Muslims who are NOT Saudi-born are second class. Please don't assume that "all Muslims" regard each other as equals or treat Muslims of different nationalities with the same respect they treat their own kin.

Much like some people think people of all Asian descent are the same.

[Azadina]

But that's not the thing, if it has a sanction that has been backed by regional authorities, then its pretty much the local goverment forcing people their traditions.

How is that different from literally any country in the world?

[ButterBeast]

You don't have to shake anyones hand, you can choose not to do it, and by that show disrespect if it's the custom. Would you like to guess what happens in muslim countries?

what muslim countries? all of them? i bet you're a real expert on them. or are we just comparing all of them to saudi arabia now? gtfo with your presumptions. ''muslim countries'' are as different as christian countries.

Unlike you, i have stepped outside of my own country enough to know this,

[Azadina]

what muslim countries? all of them? i bet you're a real expert on them. or are we just comparing all of them to saudi arabia now? gtfo with your presumptions. ''muslim countries'' are as different as christian countries.

Unlike you, i have stepped outside of my own country enough to know this,

Talk of presumptions while making them? Take your own advice.

[PassingBy]

You are forced to obey the laws, but not follow traditions and customs. Also from what I read its a national school, so rules are somewhat backed from the state and the state should not force this things to students. A private school sure can, and also Churches because they are private entities, but the state should not force you. Here public schools do not force people to preach to our god, despite the majority of them being religious, we also don't force them to sing our national anthem. I could accept the argument if it came from a private institute, but this isn't a private institute and even if it was they should not have the power to economically sanction people.

You can't bring guns to schools (from what I hear, and it is only logical).
There are certain rules for convicted sex offenders around schools.

And it is enforced by the state.

As, in some countries, is the school uniform.

It is a matter of choice.
Change school, or type of education. Pay the fine and keep doing what you want. Obey the rules - and keep studying without paying the fine.

I am not from Switzerland, and I can't say how important for them is this tradition, for me it looks idiotic.
But we had our own idiotic rules in school, we had to get up every time a teacher went into the classroom.
To some it might also look moronic, I mean why should anyone do it?
Or get up when a judge enters a court room? I mean what the flying fuck?

[Bollocks]

How is that different from literally any country in the world?

You are not forced to follow USA traditions are you? Because when I went there during thanksgiving no one forced me to eat turkey and whatever you eat in thanksgiving. Or when I visit a country during its national day, no one forces me to sing their national anthem.

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You can't bring guns to schools (from what I hear, and it is only logical).
There are certain rules for convicted sex offenders around schools.

And it is enforced by the state.

As, in some countries, is the school uniform.

It is a matter of choice.
Change school, or type of education. Pay the fine and keep doing what you want. Obey the rules - and keep studying without paying the fine.

I am not from Switzerland, and I can't say how important for them is this tradition, for me it looks idiotic.
But we had our own idiotic rules in school, we had to get up every time a teacher went into the classroom.
To some it might also look moronic, I mean why should anyone do it?
Or get up when a judge enters a court room? I mean what the flying fuck?

What you describe in your examples are laws. Its a law that you cannot bring guns to the school. Its not however a law to shake hands with people.

[Mehrunes]

How is that different from literally any country in the world?

Can't recall Polish local government (as fucked up as it may be) forcing traditions of any kind on anyone under pain of monetary sanctions. Sounds like a third world practice to me.